Veigar needs a cap on his passive

MiracleMorg94·Feb 5, 2019·4 votes·3,722 views

Because god damn this champion is unfair to play against come late game. I literally got one-shotted 25 minutes into my game because our mid, jungle and bot fed their asses off.

And I couldn't do anything about it because no matter how much magic resist, he will still be able to out damage anything.

He needs a cap on his passive because letting him continue to stack into over 1000 AP is beyond broken.

Please put this into effect, Riot, for the sake of all the players who have to play against this crap.

99 Comments

MrFawknSunshineFeb 5, 20196 votes

so cuz you played with bad teammates and got viegar ahead is why he needs to be nerfed?

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

Because letting him get unlimited AP into the 1000s when all the rest of the AP mages can barely get into 500 is not just unfair but way too broken for the people who have to play against him.

MrFawknSunshineFeb 5, 20191 votes

LUL

he is slow, immobile , weak to all ins/gap closers and physical damage /assassins

he has only one form of cc and its a skill shot that you have to run into to get stunned

one of the most squishy champs in the game.

him being at 25 mins is late game.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

And he doesn't need a fucking passive that lets him get over 1000 ap.

MrFawknSunshineFeb 5, 20191 votes

well he wont get there if you dont die to him and fed him. better way to stop his stacking is to kill him

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

Anddddd he just stacks it late game anyway.

Not much you can do to him in any stage of the game.

MrFawknSunshineFeb 5, 20191 votes

im sorry i guess i missed where he is a constant pick ban champ like kassadin use to be in season 3& 4

he has like a 70% win rate and nearly a 90% pick/ban rate?

OH he dont?

oh ok. he has clear weakness , easy to play against and around.

he dont need cap on his passive

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

Yes, he needs cap on passive. End of story.

MrFawknSunshineFeb 5, 20191 votes

well you can keep crying over it cuz of 1 game where your team fed him. that isnt enough evidence to prove your point.

Imperial PandaaFeb 5, 20191 votes

Makes me wonder how he reacts to Sion, Bard, Nasus, Cho'gath and Kindred. Since they all can all scale infinitely too.

I think OPs real problem with Veigar is that Veigar stacks for simply landing abilities while the others have to kill (or collect in Bard's case) things/people.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Sion doesn't have stacks. The rest are different and have more counterplay, on top of having to kill others to get stacks, and Cho used to lose half if he died as well but Riot took that out for some stupid reason.

Imperial PandaaFeb 5, 20191 votes

... You know Sion's W does in fact give him health, right? Effectively stacks.

Passive: Sion gains 4 maximum Health when he kills a unit (15 for champion kills, assists, large minions and large monsters).

So, I am correct in your main problem being Veigar gets stacks for simply hitting enemies as opposed to killing.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

It's been a long morning and I haven't played him in forever so I completely forgot about the W stack.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

How rude. Don't be like that.

There's evidence across hundreds of games that I've played against him. It's just this one that I finally decided to speak out.

MrFawknSunshineFeb 5, 20191 votes

the thing is his stats dont back up your claims.

if he was truly broken or op he would have a higher ban/pick rate in higher elos but he dont.

i get it, you dont like it. you want it to be changed. but in the sense of all the other balance issues we have he isnt on the radar

MiracleMorg94Feb 6, 20191 votes

Veigar doesn't need bat shit stats like recent mid Galio. Just because a champ doesn't have obnoxious numbers doesn't mean they don't need changes.

He's not on the radar because Riot has other things to do like chasing $$$ with their more popular champions.

EphixusFeb 6, 20191 votes

{quoted}

LUL

he is slow, immobile , weak to all ins/gap closers and physical damage /assassins

he has only one form of cc and its a skill shot that you have to run into to get stunned

one of the most squishy champs in the game.

him being at 25 mins is late game.

Laughing in tank veigar with 700 AP.

Doctor JarvisFeb 5, 20195 votes

I agree. Im thinking he shouldn't be able to get more than 2,341,972 stacks. Any more than that and he's just too OP

Who Fed RuFeb 5, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Jarvis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ygbg5Ghr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-05T02:03:34.093+0000)

I agree. Im thinking he shouldn't be able to get more than 2,341,972 stacks. Any more than that and he's just too OP

stahp u make Vandiril sad

KFCeytronFeb 5, 20193 votes

If three of your teammates relentlessly fed a champion with a poor early game and good late game, your team 100% earned that loss.

By the way, using Zhonya's when his spells' projectiles are en route to you absolutely ruins his day.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

I already know that. But not much you can do when he's 17-4 and one shots you without using his stun.

KFCeytronFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I already know that. But not much you can do when he's 17-4 and one shots you without using his stun.

Did you read the second sentence of my post? That is the thing you can do, especially if he doesn't use his stun.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

And if Zhonyas is down you can't do shit. I was playing Kennen and had Protobelt and Zhonyas. Two actives I can't hit as fast if I just had one. I reached for Zhonyas and was dead before I could hit it.

Still with just one active, we can't use Zhonyas every time.

KFCeytronFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And if Zhonyas is down you can't do shit. I was playing Kennen and had Protobelt and Zhonyas. Two actives I can't hit as fast if I just had one. I reached for Zhonyas and was dead before I could hit it.

Still with just one active, we can't use Zhonyas every time.

Maybe you should plan your strategy around windows of strength rather than expecting to engage all the time.

Also, you might want to practice blocking Veigar's abilities. Playing a champ with a spellshield will give you more opportunities to do so. With time, you'll find that Veigar's playstyle is pretty predictable, and you'll be ready to block his kit with the push of a button.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

And I can't play Morgana every time there's a Veigar, especially if I'm in a different lane. Again I was top lane. Doing fine on my own.

Then I get literally one shotted in the middle of the game because of this shit.

KFCeytronFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And I can't play Morgana every time there's a Veigar, especially if I'm in a different lane. Again I was top lane. Doing fine on my own.

Then I get literally one shotted in the middle of the game because of this shit.

Morg's E isn't a spellshield. It's a shield that absorbs only magic damage, but prevents disables while it holds. Sivir and Nocturne have spellshields. Of course, a magic damage shield can also be enough to prevent lethal burst, or you could try a regular shield like Janna's, or a champ with an untargetable effect like Fizz/Vlad, or Kayle's invulnerability, and so on. It's just that Zhonya's is a pretty reasonable purchase for mages in general, so you don't have to be playing a specific champ for that to be available to you. It's just that champs who do happen to have an effect like that generally have access to them more often than you can use Zhonya's, so you can get more practice in.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

Well you can't expect your team to always build correctly. I was the first top laner in the champ select. Their mid didn't choose until after me. Our support chose Zyra so she couldn't do a thing.

So you can't always rely on that.

KFCeytronFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well you can't expect your team to always build correctly. I was the first top laner in the champ select. Their mid didn't choose until after me. Our support chose Zyra so she couldn't do a thing.

So you can't always rely on that.

So if the rest of your team builds incorrectly and "feeds their asses off," you expect to somehow pull off a win against a late-game scaling champion (with poor early game)?

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

I meant to say pick in champ select right but building is another story.

Veigar scales way too much and it's unfair to the other mages who can't get as much AP as he can. And it's unfair to play against him this way as well.

KFCeytronFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I meant to say pick in champ select right but building is another story.

Veigar scales way too much and it's unfair to the other mages who can't get as much AP as he can. And it's unfair to play against him this way as well.

Allow me to put your experience (full health to dead with one Veigar ult) into perspective. I play Veigar in Co-op vs AI. I go botlane and just stack my passive basically nonstop. If I do that really well, and get a few items, I start being able to cast W on a squishy (like Nid bot or something) and then Comet finishes them off. A few minutes later, I don't need Comet anymore. Note that that's with W, which does more damage than R when the target is at full health. To be able to kill a Kennen who's probably building a couple items with health and MR with a single ult cast before 30:00 would require an incredible amount of farm and items. It would basically require running in there repeatedly to intentionally give him stacks and gold, while protecting turrets to delay the end of the match.

Almost any champion fed to that degree would murder everything. This isn't a problem with Veigar, it's a problem with needing to report three of your teammates for trolling and inting.

Do you have a replay? Can you tell us how many stacks he had on his passive, how much total AP he'd managed, and what items he was using?

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=SnugglePuggle94

I play on my main account here. The second most recent match is the game. As you can see, Veigar had item 3152 item 3285 item 3020 item 3916 item 3089 with 161 farm in 29 minutes.

Me as Kennen- item 1055 item 3152 item 3157 item 3020 item 3108 item 1033 with 156 farm in 29 minutes.

He goes 17/6/13, I'm 2/4/4.

Yes, I agree it's my teammates main fault. But I swear, the last play before the game ended, Veig put up his stun circle but didn't stun me, and just pressed R. I was done for. And no, I didn't use Zhonyas because I didn't think it would insta delete me like that, but even if I did, I probably wouldn't have gotten away because I was the last one alive and they had 5 people in our base already.

I was doing fine against Urgot so I went for damage but didn't think the game would end so soon so when I get to base to help them after mid and bot falls, it was already too late but I tried building Banshee's as fast as I could but it ended shortly after. -.-

KFCeytronFeb 6, 20191 votes

{quoted}

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=SnugglePuggle94

I play on my main account here. The second most recent match is the game. As you can see, Veigar had with 161 farm in 29 minutes.

Me as Kennen- with 156 farm in 29 minutes.

He goes 17/6/13, I'm 2/4/4.

Yes, I agree it's my teammates main fault. But I swear, the last play before the game ended, Veig put up his stun circle but didn't stun me, and just pressed R. I was done for. And no, I didn't use Zhonyas because I didn't think it would insta delete me like that, but even if I did, I probably wouldn't have gotten away because I was the last one alive and they had 5 people in our base already.

I was doing fine against Urgot so I went for damage but didn't think the game would end so soon so when I get to base to help them after mid and bot falls, it was already too late but I tried building Banshee's as fast as I could but it ended shortly after. -.-

That match was yesterday, so the replay is still viewable. Please record the replay to video, remembering to frequently show people's items and stats (particularly Veigar's stats when he one-shot you as well as his stats at the end of the game), and post it to YouTube. If that's too much of a hassle, just upload the replay file to a sharing site and post a link, and I'll take care of it for you.

MiracleMorg94Feb 7, 20191 votes

Unfortunately when I went to grab the replay, the new patch already went through when I signed in so it won't play now since the game was done on patch 9.2.

xDogMeatxFeb 5, 20191 votes

Veigar isnt broken. He had to earn his stacks throughout the game theres nothing wrong with that.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

He doesn't deserve to get over a 1000 AP just for farming and to just one shot later even if he went 0-13 early. It's downright stupid and not fair to the people playing against him.

xDogMeatxFeb 5, 20191 votes

his attacks are entirely dodgable also he doesnt gain 1000 ap from just farming his OMG ap it comes mainly from items 1st the stacks are just a bonus. i had at least a death cap worth of ap or at most 200 and something it didnt call out to OMG proportions. his final base damages, item ap scaling is what makes him strong late game. the extra ap passive is nice though. even his ult is dodgable if you alpha it or zhonyas it. i hate untargetable things that break the ult.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

I know there's Zhonyas and I use it against him but I didn't expect he could one shot me at full health so yeah I was shocked.

xDogMeatxFeb 5, 20191 votes

on his q stay near minions or if hes fed enough to q ult you wait till he qs you then zhonyas his ult then your team can follow up on him. his stun cage is his most powerful weapon in his arsenal avoid = majority of his damage or all of it i always play sylas with cleanse vs him so i can unstoppably attack him.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

I know that. I'm not stupid. I avoided his Q and kept away from his W. I didn't think he was strong enough to kill me with just an ult but he literally one shot me with R at full health, totally surprising me because I didn't use Zhonyas that time thinking it would just take about half health and I would E out of there once the stun was done.

But nope. He killed me and they won the game.

And my team was so shit they died before any engage could happen from us so I was the only one left and he still did that to me. Ugh.

xDogMeatxFeb 5, 20191 votes

well how much ap did he have exactly and what champ were you and did you have MR built and did he have pen? if you didnt have MR and he had pen and its late game finally is he fed hard with deathcap then yes you do deserve the one shot. look at his kda counter it gives you a idea how much ap he has off of killing off other players. every kill and assist he gets he gets 5 ap off them.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

I didn't check how much he had because I was too busy trying to keep the game together for the team. But looking at my op.gg, Veig finished 17/6/13, and had a Protobelt, Ludens and Deathcap, with an Oblivion Orb and Sorc shoes.

So in AP, he has 608, plus the 18% magic penetration. Safe to say he was doing a shit ton of damage.

Most mages can barely reach 400. Veig is completely stupid and doesn't deserve this shit.

I was Kennen in the top lane. I had just finished my main two items of Protobelt and Zhonyas and was just starting to build MR when teamfight phase started early because mid and bot lane threw their lanes to shit.

It was mid game and he was already about 11 kills or so. And no, I don't deserve a one shot 20 minutes into the game just because a stupidly designed champ can get extra AP over the rest of the mages that can't.

xDogMeatxFeb 5, 20191 votes

he had 38 pen and 290 ap (without death cap buff) after its 406 deathcap included but his stacks must have been at least 150 (not calculated yet but its calculated by kills plus assists x 5 ap = 150 ap excluding any minion or champion hit stacking), it equals 616 ap altogether if i added champs hit and minions farmed i would say it can easily hit above 700 (cannons give more ap btw), unless hes a supporty role he wont be able to stack easily due to adc farming. mid lane has way more of a reason to be a late game monster than a support. so yes i can see why he would oneshot someone with no MR no matter how bs it is. gathering storm is also a factor into it. if you were in lighting rush form (maybe?) you would have survived i dont know his stat buffs in that form.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

Again, it wasn't late game. The game ended before 30 minutes.

Kennen gets a few armor and MR in his E but again Veigar should not be one shotting this early in the game or anywhere period. Other mages have to use multiple spells to kill someone from full health.

I didn't think he was able to do that so I walked around his stun circle waiting for it to be done but he just pressed R and deleted me.

Veigar needs a cap on his passive or his scalings nerfed. Either one.

xDogMeatxFeb 5, 20192 votes

capping his passive would kill the "forever scaling ap fantasy" riot laid out for him he starts small Veigar "is that a short joke" not a threat early due to his non lethal damage at the beginning but later in the game. his power grows eternally till either he grows so powerful he cant be controlled. sion/chogath has the same concept but with health but chogath can grab as many stacks as he wants until he one shots champs except sion theoretically oh yeah buy titanic hydra if thats the case your health will be turned into damage using hydra. nasus has q skill damage upgrade per minion kill.

MiracleMorg94Feb 5, 20191 votes

And that fantasy is downright stupid. He should only be allowed to scale to a certain degree and then he's finished.

Cho can't one shot because he doesn't build enough AP, and Sion only stacks health as well that doesn't do any added damage.

Nasus can't one shot with a fed Q.

Veigar needs nerfs. Period.

KFCeytronFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And that fantasy is downright stupid. He should only be allowed to scale to a certain degree and then he's finished.

Cho can't one shot because he doesn't build enough AP, and Sion only stacks health as well that doesn't do any added damage.

Nasus can't one shot with a fed Q.

Veigar needs nerfs. Period.

Cho can one shot because his ult damage scales with health, which he can stack without a cap.

Nasus can one shot with a fed Q because he can stack its damage without a cap.

Veigar winning a match when faced with three intentional feeders does not mean he needs nerfs, it means you need to report people who think it's funny to assist the enemy team.

xDogMeatxFeb 6, 20191 votes

Chogaths ult scales on hp too just that he scales on hp also. If you cap his passive that means something has to be compensated somewhere else im pretty sure majority of veigar mains love him due to his endless scaling and cage/ult. What your suggesting would kill the champion as a whole.

MiracleMorg94Feb 6, 20191 votes

No, it wouldn't. It would make him more easier to play against but still let others who have more skill to continue stacking and show off how fast they can get to the max. Maybe have a thing where if you reach the max amount, Veigar gets something extra added to his kit or something but not let him get over 1000 AP for pretty much nothing.

xDogMeatxFeb 7, 20191 votes

you mean the syndra treatment after max stacks like X% true damage on X skill? and increase stun time by X?