A classification chart.

Done25·Jan 27, 2015·11 votes·1,960 views

http://i.imgur.com/0zM1eqm.jpg

You apparently can't change links embedded in your original post, weird but whatever, so ignore it and look at this instead. VVV

http://i.imgur.com/XgUpFhq.jpg

I made up a little chart, hopefully this will help people figure out who is classified as what. :D Especially since quite a few of Riot's own listings are outdated/wrong. (Like J4 who's classified as a Tank when he's more of a Fighter like Trundle or Hecarim.)

Trundle - Deals damage by (auto) attacking and fights up close. He's a Fighter. Sejuani - Deals most of her damage via her abilities up close. She's a Tank. Caitlyn - Spends most of her time (auto) attacking from range. She's a Marksman. Kassadin - Pokes his enemy down at range with his abilities before jumping in for the kill with his R+W. Mage.

There are a few outliers like Garen who's a Fighter that deals quite a bit of damage with his spin. But I think this chart covers at least 80% of the roster accurately.

In addition to the four base classes there are four modifiers:

Assassin (Mobility) Disruptor (CC) Support (Team helper) Carry (Raw damage)

For example, Yi is a Fighter who is both an Assassin AND a Carry in exchange for no CC or durability outside of his Meditate. Meanwhile Orianna is a Mage Disruptor/Support in exchange for no mobility and low single target damage. Ashe is a Marksman Disruptor. She deals less damage than other Marksman Carry types in exchange for her perma-slow and long ranged stun.

What do you guys think?

46 Comments

The SoulforgedJan 28, 20153 votes

Bruisers are tanky champions who do lots of damage too. Tanks are champions that can soak lots of dmg and deal out lots of cc and utility. A bruiser can be ad, or ap like chogath, who normally builds lots of ap in the current meta.

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Bruisers are tanky champions who do lots of damage too. Tanks are champions that can soak lots of dmg and deal out lots of cc and utility. A bruiser can be ad, or ap like chogath, who normally builds lots of ap in the current meta.

"Durable and does damage." This is a pretty poor description. Swain is durable and does damage. Is he a ~~Bruiser~~ Fighter?

The SoulforgedJan 28, 20151 votes

If he builds pretty tanky, like his usual roa zhonyas, yeah, he is a bruiser. He is also a mage though, as abilities are his source of damage.

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If he builds pretty tanky, like his usual roa zhonyas, yeah, he is a bruiser. He is also a mage though, as abilities are his source of damage.

RoA and Zhonya have AP, which power his abilities. His damage comes from his abilities, rather than what he does personally. Don't get me wrong though. Some champions have a lot of leeway with how they can play. While it isn't optimal, you can still treat Cho like a Fighter by enhancing his attacking power or a Mage by increasing his abilities. Would be pretty hard to use him as a Marksman though.

PentaJumpJan 28, 20153 votes

So.. either Akali is a tank, or Shen is a mage.

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So.. either Akali is a tank, or Shen is a mage.

Akali must auto attack to trigger her Mark of the Assassin (Especially once the new patch comes out.) and she gets a huge boost to her on hit damage from her passive. Sure, you COULD use her without ever using your basic attack, but you wouldn't do very much damage that way.

Shen is kind of bad/messy atm and Riot acknowledges this. But I don't know why you think he's a Mage. His passive needs you to attack, Q is short ranged, E is short ranged. The only real long distance ability he has is his ult.

emjaJan 28, 20151 votes

Shall Sona be classified as a marksman since she needs to auto attack to trigger her passive and her on-hit effect from q?

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Shall Sona be classified as a marksman since she needs to auto attack to trigger her passive and her on-hit effect from q?

I take it you never saw the terror that was AD Sona? Her heal made her impossible to push out of lane at low levels and you couldn't outrun her speed boost.

But if you're talking about AP Sona then no, she's a Mage. Her passive and Q do reward occasionally attacking, but not consistantly. That's why you see people buy Lichbane on her and not Nashor's Tooth.

emjaJan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I take it you never saw the terror that was AD Sona? Her heal made her impossible to push out of lane at low levels and you couldn't outrun her speed boost.

But if you're talking about AP Sona then no, she's a Mage. Her passive and Q do reward occasionally attacking, but not consistantly. That's why you see people buy Lichbane on her and not Nashor's Tooth.

Using the same reasoning how can Akali be anything other than a tank (Other than building her pure AD)?

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Using the same reasoning how can Akali be anything other than a tank (Other than building her pure AD)?

Don't worry about being confused. She looks like a Tank because her playstlye gives the illusion of her being a Mage even though she's a Fighter.

Just remember this. Her passive and Q reward landing frequent basic attacks, her E is basically an AoE version of your basic attack, and R is a gap closer with the intent of getting in range close enough to slap your target to death.

Maple CrusaderJan 27, 20152 votes

This chart would be a be quite good as a general guide to the damage output to most champions. The outliers, such as Garen and Pantheon would fit in a different chart.

Done25Jan 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This chart would be a be quite good as a general guide to the damage output to most champions. The outliers, such as Garen and Pantheon would fit in a different chart.

I say they still qualify as Fighters. Since they're rewarded for building AD to power their abilities they still deal a very large amount of their damage with auto attacks. Just look at how much more quickly they take a tower than say, Amumu. Garen even has his Q to empower his next attack and Pantheon gets auto crits on anyone under 15% hp.

OrangesilkJan 27, 20152 votes

Cho'Gath has:

2 Abilities to deal damage from afar 1 Ability to deal damage by attacking 1 Ability to deal melee damage

So?

Done25Jan 27, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Cho'Gath has:

2 Abilities to deal damage from afar 1 Ability to deal damage by attacking 1 Ability to deal melee damage

So?

Easily a Tank

Passive - Carnivore - Rewards him for killing things. Has nothing specifically to do with how he deals the damage. Q - Rupture - Long ranged AoE spell. Has nothing to do with attacking. +1 to range and ability W - Feral Scream - Short ranged cone shaped AoE. Nothing to do with attacking. +1 to melee and ability. E - Vorpal Spikes - Triggers on attack, rewards him for building AP. +1 to melee, attacking, and ability. R - Melee ranged AP spell that gives him max HP on a kill. +1 to melee and ability.

It even out to: 3 melee range > 1 long ranged 1 damage by attacking < 4 damage from abilities.

Since he's mainly "melee" and "ability based" he's a Tank.

OrangesilkJan 27, 20153 votes

At 700 range, feral scream is a melee ability much like Caitlyn is a melee champion (It outranges cait though)

That'd make it fuzzier then, +2 range, +2 melee, +4 ability

He's sort of a tank-mage?

Done25Jan 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

At 700 range, feral scream is a melee ability much like Caitlyn is a melee champion (It outranges cait though)

That'd make it fuzzier then, +2 range, +2 melee, +4 ability

He's sort of a tank-mage?

In order to get the most out of it though he has to be as close to the group as he optimally can be. He would prefer to hit both Udyr as well as the Caitlyn hiding behind him.

But yes. Cho'Gath is often seen as a Mage Disruptor as well with items like Deathcap to directly increase his raw damage from afar. It's just that he prefers being up close so he can consistently activate his Vorpal Spikes so he's tipped towards Tank, as they deal a large portion of his damage. Not to mention the absolutely teeny tiny range on his ult.

junglerboy16Jan 27, 20151 votes

Well if you look at it like that, then he actually fits his description of Tank/Mage pretty well, even by this general rubric.

CenturosJan 28, 20151 votes

Tank/Mage, but attackspeed is a legitimate (if trolly) build on him.

If Waveclear/Pusher was a category for this chart, he would be in it (all his abilities save his ult are AOE, one doesn't even use mana to AOE the minions, and both his ult and passive reward killing creeps).

TheI3igDaddyJan 28, 20151 votes

Wit's End isn't trolly at all on Cho. You can sap 25 MR from them and give it to yourself, all while making the majority of your kit deal more damage to your target. It works extremely well.

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wit's End isn't trolly at all on Cho. You can sap 25 MR from them and give it to yourself, all while making the majority of your kit deal more damage to your target. It works extremely well.

Totally. It synergies very nicely with his Vorpal Spikes.

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Tank/Mage, but attackspeed is a legitimate (if trolly) build on him.

If Waveclear/Pusher was a category for this chart, he would be in it (all his abilities save his ult are AOE, one doesn't even use mana to AOE the minions, and both his ult and passive reward killing creeps).

Most Tanks and Mages are by nature really good at wave clear due to their abilities tending to have a lot of AoE to make up for their weak auto attack power. (Sejuani, Amumu, Zac, Orianna, Ziggs, etc.)

And Wits' End is good on Cho because it increases his magic damage and lets him proc Vorpal Spikes more easily.

PhoenixSlayer13Jan 27, 20151 votes

How would assassins classify in this? They tend to use abilities to do damage and most fight up-close. By this they would be classified as tanks, which they aren't, obviously.

I guess you could argue that they count as mages, but a vast majority of assassins have to close the gap in order to do real damage.

Done25Jan 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

How would assassins classify in this? They tend to use abilities to do damage and most fight up-close. By this they would be classified as tanks, which they aren't, obviously.

I guess you could argue that they count as mages, but a vast majority of assassins have to close the gap in order to do real damage.

It's a style of play, rather than a class. Assasin types focus on high mobility in order to strike at vulnerable targets.

Fizz, Nocturne, and Shaco are Fighter/Assassins. They fight up close by using their attacks. Fizz has his Dash and Trickster. Nocturne has Q, E, and R to close gaps, and Shaco has an invisible Blink.

Brand is a Mage Carry with a focus on raw damage. LeBlanc is a Mage Assassin who uses Distort to get around. Soraka is a Mage Support who uses her heals to directly increase her team's fighting power.

The four main classes are Fighter Tank Marksman Mage

The four modifiers are: Assassin (Mobility) Disruptor (CC) Support (Team helper) Carry (Raw damage)

For example, Yi is a Fighter who is both an Assassin AND a Carry in exchange for no CC or durability outside of his Meditate.

Antoher example is Orianna who is a Mage Disruptor/Support.

The SoulforgedJan 28, 20153 votes

No, I'm quite sure assassins have their own class.

Done25Jan 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No, I'm quite sure assassins have their own class.

Define an Assassin then. Zed's an assassin, but nothing in his kit at all resembles LeBlancs. And most Assassins have either Fighter or Mage tags anyways.

Teridax68Jan 28, 20151 votes

The defining features of assassins are:

Enough mobility to quickly enter and exit a fight (Both and have their W and R to dash into a fight and exit cleanly).
Huge focus on single-target burst damage (Zed relies on his Death Mark to assassinate targets, Leblanc's Q and E are single-target)
A requirement to commit heavily to their target and put themselves at risk in order to deal the most damage, usually by offering themselves up to their opponents (Zed needs to be at melee range, Leblanc needs to dash in to deal the most damage).

These features don't work for other classes: fighters often have mobility, but depend on their defenses to make it out of a fight; mages often have lots of AoE that is best used against multiple targets at once. Fighters commit heavily to their targets, but are never at the same level of risk as assassins due to the difference in resilience; and mages tend to work from a distance. You can have overlap between classes ( Ahri is a mage-assassin hybrid, Leblanc herself is a magey assassin, Diana plays like a fighter-assassin, etc.), but you can't just absorb assassins into the roles you established.

Overall, I think damage is just one of the many factors that define a class, and ignoring every other factor (tankiness, crowd control, utility, mobility, etc.) is making your system extremely incomplete. Tanks don't focus on damage, and neither do supports. Mages aren't just spell-dependent marksmen, and both make very different contributions to the game, including the way they deal damage. Assassins mostly fight up close and are ability-based, but by your classification that would make them tanks (!). You need to include a lot more factors than just damage, range and spell versus autoattack dependence if you want to classify League's classes properly.

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

I actually disagree with many of your things, so please bear with me while I break it down as best I can.

{quoted}

The defining features of assassins are:

Enough mobility to quickly enter and exit a fight (Both and have their W and R to dash into a fight and exit cleanly).

Okay, I'm agreeing so far. High mobility is the key trait of all Assassins.

Huge focus on single-target burst damage (Zed relies on his Death Mark to assassinate targets, Leblanc's Q and E are single-target)

Annnd, now I'm not. You say Assassins have a huge focus on single target damage, but what about Kass and Talon? Both of them have very powerful AoE abilities. Talon's Rake + Shadow Assault deal massive damage over a wide area.

A requirement to commit heavily to their target and put themselves at risk in order to deal the most damage, usually by offering themselves up to their opponents (Zed needs to be at melee range, Leblanc needs to dash in to deal the most damage).

That's true for just about every champion I would think. Garen isn't much of a threat while he's hiding under his tower.

These features don't work for other classes: fighters often have mobility, but depend on their defenses to make it out of a fight

Darius has no mobility or defensive bonuses. Is he not a fighter?

mages often have lots of AoE that is best used against multiple targets at once.

Well, yes. The best way to increase how much damage you do it to hit multiple targets at once. If two or more champions are grouped up together LB actually causes more damage via double Distortion than she does with two Sigil of Malice.

Fighters commit heavily to their targets, but are never at the same level of risk as assassins due to the difference in resilience

Nocturne is a Fighter Assassin. He commits heavily to a lone target then escapes before their team can retaliate. I'm not sure what you mean, you're going to have to be more specific.

and mages tend to work from a distance. You can have overlap between classes ( is a mage-assassin hybrid, Leblanc herself is a magey assassin, plays like a fighter-assassin, etc.), but you can't just absorb assassins into the roles you established.

Ahri deals most of her damage from afar with her abilities and has a high degree of high mobility. Same for LeBlanc. They're both Mage Assassins. In comparison, Fizz is a Fighter Assassin who has to get in close and land attacks via Q to proc his W. Diana is also a Fighter Assassin. She can set up initiations with her Q, but afterwards most of her damage comes in up close when her dashes in with R and starts using her passive to deal damage.

Overall, I think damage is just one of the many factors that define a class, and ignoring every other factor (tankiness, crowd control, utility, mobility, etc.)

I didn't ignore the other factors. Am I crazy? I swear it's right up there are the bottom of my opening post. Assassin - High mobility (Ahri Fizz, LB, Nocturne, Shaco.) Disruptor - CC (Jarvan, Alistar, Maokai, Sejuani) Support - Helps their team (Sona, Soraka, Nami, Lulu) Carry - Raw damage (Yi, Fiora, Vayne, Malzahar, Veigar)

is making your system extremely incomplete. Tanks don't focus on damage, and neither do supports.

Tanks actually deal quite a lot of damage. It's just that most of it is AoE and very few people build AP on them. Supports don't do "damage" because their abilities focus on their team mates. Instead of damage Soraka causes healing while Janna creates AD boosting shields.

Mages aren't just spell-dependent marksmen

Well duh. Marksmen use their basic attack while Mages use their abilities.

and both make very different contributions to the game, including the way they deal damage.

Again, duh. That's why they're different classes.

Assassins mostly fight up close and are ability-based.

LB fights up close? In my last game she spent most of her time at range nailing me with QQE from as far away as she could.

but by your classification that would make them tanks.

No, it doesn't.

You need to include a lot more factors than just damage, range and spell versus autoattack dependence if you want to classify League's classes properly.

It seems to be working pretty accurately so far.

Teridax68Jan 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You say Assassins have a huge focus on single target damage, but what about Kass and Talon? Both of them have very powerful AoE abilities. Talon's Rake + Shadow Assault deal massive damage over a wide area.

Kassadin is AoE-focused? Are you sure? His Q and W are single-target, and the AoE damage on his ult is not its main purpose. Talon has a bit of AoE (so does Katarina ), but his E, Q and general fighting pattern still make him focused on single targets. The same applies for Kat, too, despite her pentakill-enabling resets.

{quoted}

That's true for just about every champion I would think. Garen isn't much of a threat while he's hiding under his tower. Darius has no mobility or defensive bonuses. Is he not a fighter?

Like I said, these guys are naturally resilient. Assassins aren't. If a fighter gets focused, they have at least a short window of time to escape. If an assassin gets caught, they die.

{quoted}

Well, yes. The best way to increase how much damage you do it to hit multiple targets at once. If two or more champions are grouped up together LB actually causes more damage via double Distortion than she does with two Sigil of Malice.

My point is that even if assassins have some AoE, they're ultimately focused on killing single targets, unlike mages who can use their entire kit to kill multiple enemies at once. "If the stars align and this situation happens, then X" isn't really a good argument, because you're trying to bring in a special case to justify a general statement.

{quoted}

Nocturne is a Fighter Assassin. He commits heavily to a lone target then escapes before their team can retaliate. I'm not sure what you mean, you're going to have to be more specific.

But you just explained it: Noc uses his mobility to get in and burst down his target, and then tanks his way out of a fight. That's why you typically see Nocturne players build a mix of tankiness and damage, as would a bruiser. He's a fighter assassin.

{quoted}

Ahri deals most of her damage from afar with her abilities and has a high degree of high mobility. Same for LeBlanc. They're both Mage Assassins. In comparison, Fizz is a Fighter Assassin who has to get in close and land attacks via Q to proc his W. Diana is also a Fighter Assassin. She can set up initiations with her Q, but afterwards most of her damage comes in up close when her dashes in with R and starts using her passive to deal damage.

Exactly! :D

{quoted}

I didn't ignore the other factors. Am I crazy? I swear it's right up there are the bottom of my opening post. Assassin - High mobility (Ahri Fizz, LB, Nocturne, Shaco.) Disruptor - CC (Jarvan, Alistar, Maokai, Sejuani) Support - Helps their team (Sona, Soraka, Nami, Lulu) Carry - Raw damage (Yi, Fiora, Vayne, Malzahar, Veigar)

But those are secondary tags you're adding after your damage-based chart. You're implicitly valuing CC, mobility and utility less than damage, and that doesn't work. By your system, every support is a mage, and every assassin is either a fighter or a mage, and those classes don't work like that.

{quoted}

Tanks actually deal quite a lot of damage. It's just that most of it is AoE and very few people build AP on them. Supports don't do "damage" because their abilities focus on their team mates. Instead of damage Soraka causes healing while Janna creates AD boosting shields.

... so they deal less damage than other roles, which brings us back to what I was saying: damage cannot work as your main way of classifying champions. Tanks tend to have poor damage scalings and little to no incentive to build them in most cases (bar champions like Amumu ); supports have most of their scalings go towards utility and CC rather than damage, so even with a full AP build your average support will deal less damage than your average mage.

{quoted}

Well duh. Marksmen use their basic attack while Mages use their abilities.

Yes, but that's not their only difference. Switching from a marksman to a mage isn't just switching from autoattacks to spells, it involves making very different contributions to your team. Mages are meant to control the battlefield through crowd control and AoE burst, marksmen are meant to provide major DPS. Marksman and mages are fundamentally different on many levels, which your system doesn't really account that much for.

{quoted}

Again, duh. That's why they're different classes.

Yet supports differ fundamentally from mages, and assassins are completely different to any other role, and you're listing them as subcategories of mages and fighters. Why is the difference between mages and marksmen obvious, but not the difference between fighters and assassins?

{quoted}

LB fights up close? In my last game she spent most of her time at range nailing her with QQE from as far away as she could.

Again, anecdotal evidence or special-casing doesn't hold against the fact that a major source of Leblanc's damage is in her gapcloser, and that she absolutely needs to use it to land her full burst against opponents. She can use it for jukes, just as AP Tristana can save her W for escapes, but doing so costs her a ton of damage.

{quoted}

No it doesn't.

Why not? I just followed your system to the letter, and even with the Assassin tag out there you'd still have to attach it to champions like Katarina after the tank label. What part of the damage/range/autoattack-versus-spells chart tells me the difference between assassins and tanks?

{quoted}

It seems to be working pretty accurately so far.

I don't really think so. Your system is incomplete (it doesn't acknowledge supports and assassins as unique classes, and not just sub-classes of other archetypes) and often inaccurate: Kassadin is not a mage, and the distinction you make between tanks and fighters is inaccurate: by your evaluation, Rammus is a fighter (his passive makes him heavily autoattack-based) and Renekton is a tank. Sejuani is also a fighter and not a tank. Damage is not how you distinguish between them: fighters are champions who heavily influence and disrupt fights and just happen to be tanky enough to do so, whereas tanks genuinely benefit from actually tanking, such as by reflecting damage (e.g. Rammus), blocking shots that would kill their allies (e.g. Braum ), unlocking more power (e.g. Amumu) or forcing the enemy to handle them through continuous peel and CC spam (e.g. Nautilus ). It also creates weird situations where, by your denomination, heavily spell-based marksmen like Lucian , Corki and Ezreal technically qualify as mages. You need to expand your system a bit if you want it to be more accurate, intuitive and complete.

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

is AoE-focused? Are you sure? His Q and W are single-target, and the AoE damage on his ult is not its main purpose. has a bit of AoE (so does ), but his E, Q and general fighting pattern still make him focused on single targets.

His E needs only 6 seconds to recharge vs the 9 for his Q or W. And it use to deal much more damage before they destroyed the base damage on it a few patches back.

The same applies for Kat, too, despite her pentakill-enabling resets.

You mean the Kat with a bouncy Q, a PAoE burst W, and an ult that targets up to three champions? Are you going to stare me in the (vitrual) eye and tell me she's a SINGLE target champion?

Like I said, these guys are naturally resilient. Assassins aren't. If a fighter gets focused, they have at least a short window of time to escape. If an assassin gets caught, they die.

Well no crap. Noc relies on his spell shield to protect him while Garen uses his Courage to reduce the damage he takes by 30%.

My point is that even if assassins have some AoE, they're ultimately focused on killing single targets, unlike mages who can use their entire kit to kill multiple enemies at once. "If the stars align and this situation happens, then X" isn't really a good argument, because you're trying to bring in a special case to justify a general statement.

Katrina and Ahri's AoE based kits disagree with you.

But you just explained it: Noc uses his mobility to get in and burst down his target, and then tanks his way out of a fight. That's why you typically see Nocturne players build a mix of tankiness and damage, as would a bruiser. He's a fighter assassin.

Tanking his way out of a fight is not how Noc prefers it. Ideally he kits in, kills, then gets out without ever taking a single hit thanks to his hard CC and spell shield.

Exactly! :D

So you're agreeing with me?

But those are secondary tags you're adding after your damage-based chart. You're implicitly valuing CC, mobility and utility less than damage, and that doesn't work. By your system, every support is a mage, and every assassin is either a fighter or a mage, and those classes don't work like that.

I'm not adding them "after" the damage chart. Things like Assassin or Carry simply reflect the style of their kit. Such as Assassin Ahri's ult allowing her to dash around, while Carry Veigar's R is a single target "You die now." button.

... so they deal less damage than other roles, which brings us back to what I was saying: damage cannot work as your main way of classifying champions. Tanks tend to have poor damage scalings and little to no incentive to build them in most cases (bar champions like ); supports have most of their scalings go towards utility and CC rather than damage, so even with a full AP build your average support will deal less damage than your average mage.

Amumu, Zac, Singed, Sejuani, Maokai. These are all Tanks who can deal large amounts of damage with their abilities. Also, I didn't say that they deal large amounts of damage on the chart, only that most of the damage they DO do is done one way or the other. Such as Vayne auto attacking vs Amumu's Despair and Tantrums.

Yes, but that's not their only difference. Switching from a marksman to a mage isn't just switching from autoattacks to spells, it involves making very different contributions to your team. Mages are meant to control the battlefield through crowd control and AoE burst, marksmen are meant to provide major DPS. Marksman and mages are fundamentally different on many levels, which your system doesn't really account that much for.

So let me see if I can organize what you said. "Mages use their abilities to deal large amounts of damage, while Marksmen use their basic attacks to put out consistent DPS." .... You just agreed with the chart.

Yet supports differ fundamentally from mages, and assassins are completely different to any other role, and you're listing them as subcategories of mages and fighters. Why is the difference between mages and marksmen obvious, but not the difference between fighters and assassins?

Really? Soraka healing her Marksman for 400 after Annie Disintegrates them for 400 really isn't that much different. One number just makes the bar go up while the other makes it go down.

Again, anecdotal evidence or special-casing doesn't hold against the fact that a major source of Leblanc's damage is in her gapcloser, and that she absolutely needs to use it to land her full burst against opponents. She can use it for jukes, just as AP can save her W for escapes, but doing so costs her a ton of damage.

She does not "need" to land it against her opponent to deal damage. She does just as much by landing her E instead. Hell, her E hits HARDER than her W does. Distortion does 245 (+ 60% AP) while Ethereal Chains deal 280 (+ 100% AP).

Why not? I just followed your system to the letter, and even with the Assassin tag out there you'd still have to attach it to champions like Katarina after the tank label. What part of the damage/range/autoattack-versus-spells chart tells me the difference between assassins and tanks?

What makes you think a Tank couldn't be itemized to follow an Assassin playstyle? Like Braum who uses "Stand behind me" to jump into a fight, land his Ult, and then back away with the speed boost from Unbreakable to guard against counter attacks? The only thing an Assassin needs is a high amount of reliable mobility.

I don't really think so. Your system is incomplete (it doesn't acknowledge supports and assassins as unique classes, and not just sub-classes of other archetypes)

That's because Assassins and Supports are NOT unique classes. Go t othe wiki and find me an Assassin or Support with no other tags attached to them. I guarantee you that most supports you look up will have "Mage" in the other slot. I'm just turning it around.

and often inaccurate: Kassadin is not a mage

Kassadin shows up when you select "Mage" last I checked.

and the distinction you make between tanks and fighters is inaccurate: by your evaluation, is a fighter (his passive makes him heavily autoattack-based)

No. Most of his damage still comes from Q, W, and R. Unless you're intentionally off-building him to take advantage of his AD or something with items like Wit's End of course. Look up the damage in the after game screen of just about any rammus and I assure you that 80% of his damage will be listed as magical.

and is a tank. Sejuani is also a fighter and not a tank.

And now I know you're just fucking with me. Renekton is a Tank and Sejuani is a Fighter? Are you SURE you didn't get that backwards?

Damage is not how you distinguish between them

I'm distinguishing them by how they DO their damage, not by how much of it they do.

fighters are champions who heavily influence and disrupt fights and just happen to be tanky enough to do so whereas tanks genuinely benefit from actually tanking, such as by reflecting damage (e.g. Rammus), blocking shots that would kill their allies (e.g. ) unlocking more power (e.g. Amumu) or forcing the enemy to handle them through continuous peel and CC spam (e.g. ).

So how does Sejuani or Zec benefit from being hit then? Hell, Nautilus HATES being hit since he needs his shield up in order to deal damage.

It also creates weird situations where, by your denomination, heavily spell-based marksmen like , and technically qualify as mages. You need to expand your system a bit if you want it to be more accurate, intuitive and complete.

Lucian's kit rewards him for building AD and attack speed. So it actually helps to reinforce his role as a Marksman.
Two words. "Blue Ezreal". Most annoying bastard in the game. Ezreal can be played as BOTH an AD Marksman AND an AP Mage. He even has the tags for it.
While not to the same degree as Ez, AP Corki has been a thing in the past where he relies only on his Phosphorus Bomb and Missile Barrage for damage.

Teridax68Jan 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Really? Soraka healing her Marksman for 400 after Annie Disintegrates them for 400 really isn't that much different. One number just makes the bar go up while the other makes it go down.

So, by your rationale, every heal is a nuke. Got it.

{quoted}

What makes you think a Tank couldn't be itemized to follow an Assassin playstyle? Like Braum who uses "Stand behind me" to jump into a fight, land his Ult, and then back away with the speed boost from Unbreakable to guard against counter attacks? The only thing an Assassin needs is a high amount of reliable mobility.

And by your rationale here, Braum initiating a fight with his crowd control and defenses is the same as an assassin diving a squishy.

{quoted}

That's because Assassins and Supports are NOT unique classes. Go t othe wiki and find me an Assassin or Support with no other tags attached to them. I guarantee you that most supports you look up will have "Mage" in the other slot. I'm just turning it around.

Akali and Shaco are classified as pure assassins. Even if they had another tag attached to them, that would not prevent champions like Zed or Talon from being primarily classified as assassins, or Sona, Janna and Soraka from being primarily classified as supports. That you are attempting to distort the way champions actually work in-game to suit your own faulty classification system shows its worth, and your own level of integrity: you don't really care about creating something accurate or worth using, you just want to keep this thing you like and defend it blindly against anyone who might poke at its holes. You'd sooner distort facts and shoot your own project in the foot than admit to being wrong, and until you change out of that mentality you're never going to be convincing to anyone but yourself.

Done25Jan 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So, by your rationale, every heal is a nuke. Got it.

It's a nuke for your ally's HP bar if you want to be surly and look at it that way. But most people understand a nuke to be a high damage spell. :/

And by your rationale here, Braum initiating a fight with his crowd control and defenses is the same as an assassin diving a squishy.

Honestly? Pretty much. Talon brings damage while Braum brings CC. Either way they're using their high mobility to sneak into optimal spots. Like Braum jumping to Udyr to stun that pesky Miss Fortune as she tries to run away. Not very different from Noc ulting in and Fearing her.

and are classified as pure assassins. Even if they had another tag attached to them

Akali and Shaco work as both Fighters AND Mages because they can both work well with high amounts of AD or AP. I'm betting Riot just couldn't pick which one was the better tag. :^) They're also OLD champions.

that would not prevent champions like Zed or Talon from being primarily classified as assassins

Both of whom are classified as Assassin Fighters anyways. It's the same thing as my system, the tags are just reversed.

Sona, Janna and Soraka from being primarily classified as supports.

They're listed as Support Mages, so same thing as above.

That you are attempting to distort the way champions actually work in-game to suit your own faulty classification system shows its worth, and your own level of integrity: you don't really care about creating something accurate or worth using, you just want to keep this thing you like and defend it blindly against anyone who might poke at its holes. You'd sooner distort facts and shoot your own project in the foot than admit to being wrong, and until you change out of that mentality you're never going to be convincing to anyone but yourself.

And now you're just frothing at the mouth and ranting by trying to assassinate my own personal character. And at least 8 people upvoted it. THEY seem to like the idea.

Flawless FetusJan 27, 20151 votes

TIL zed is a tank.

junglerboy16Jan 27, 20153 votes

And then you realize that other than his ult's reapplication of damage, most of his burst comes from AAs.

Done25Jan 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And then you realize that other than his ult's reapplication of damage, most of his burst comes from AAs.

Which is why they lowered his attack speed in the new nerf, which puzzled a lot of people who didn't know that. :D

His auto attacks are especially painful once he gets the +25% AD on his W. And sucks to be you if he gets a crit from ghostblade.

junglerboy16Jan 27, 20151 votes

Yeah, I was surprised by the number of people complaining that the AS nerf wasn't enough (i doubt it is, but it isn't nearly as insignificant as they claim).

Done25Jan 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I was surprised by the number of people complaining that the AS nerf wasn't enough (i doubt it is, but it isn't nearly as insignificant as they claim).

They also need to nerf how well his Q damage penetrates through targets. You can usually use minions to hide from skill shots, but Zed doesn't care.

Done25Jan 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YewRqKpZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-01-27T21:13:03.388+0000)

TIL zed is a tank.

What Junglerboy said. That's why they lowered his attacks speed per level as a nerf rather than targeting his abilities.

Tis a nice dayJan 28, 20151 votes

I'd actually say that Jarvan can be just as much tank/caster as he is fighter/autoattacker due to all the CC he has (slow, knockup, wall).

Otherwise nice chart.

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tis a nice day,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YewRqKpZ,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-01-28T02:44:07.501+0000)

I'd actually say that Jarvan can be just as much tank/caster as he is fighter/autoattacker due to all the CC he has (slow, knockup, wall).

Otherwise nice chart.

That makes him a Fighter Disruptor. Don't forget about the four modifiers!

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

I have to pass out but I'll try and fully reply to your post in the morning.

But two quick mentions. I did not say Nocturn tanks his way out of a fight. I said he gets in, kills the exposed target, the leaves BEFORE they can retaliate. Yes he can be built durably, but his ideal use is as a high speed dps champion due to his heavy damage/speed steroids and single target nature.

Second. Lucian is still a Marskman instead of a Mage because everything in his kit rewards attacking. His passive makes him fire an additional shot after every spell. Q rewards building AD. W gives him move speed on hit. E rewards him for frequently landing his passive. And his R is one of the few abilities to scale off of attack speed, which of course rewards him for building this basic attack focus stat.

Champion SkinJan 30, 20151 votes

Well actually good steroids/base damages can make it better to build durable if you are melee or have no way to avoid taking damage As being able to stay in the fray using your steroids/base damages more might give you more damage as you will survive longer and have more time to deal damage (especially true when teams are grouped up and Nocturne might have to dive in first as he might get killed before he get to do anything if build mainly damage)

Champion SkinJan 28, 20151 votes

So Swain is a tank? Since he uses his abilites to deal damage and fights up close to prevent people from escaping as he has no mobility to chase with so he needs to move in close while he still is able to CC his target

And is Mundo a tank or a fighter? He uses both abilities Q + W and Auto attacks E to deal damage?

Done25Jan 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YewRqKpZ,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-01-28T09:52:58.028+0000)

So Swain is a tank? Since he uses his abilites to deal damage and fights up close to prevent people from escaping as he has no mobility to chase with so he needs to move in close while he still is able to CC his target

I don't see why he couldn't be used as one now that you mention it! The lack of mr per level could make it dangerous to get near magic heavy characters in the late game, but Swain has plenty of CC, durability, and damage to reward being in the thick of a fight. Especially since his birds deal damage faster the closer he is.

And is Mundo a tank or a fighter? He uses both abilities Q + W and Auto attacks E to deal damage?

Mundo is another one of those flexable characters like Cho'Gath. I personally belive his 150+ AD steroid is too good to not (ab)use with the help of Wit's End, but if you're behind on gold there is no reason you can't grab a Sunfire Cape instead and try to burn as many people as you can with your Burning Agony. (Do note that Mundo's kit is old and they could probably stand to rework it a little.)

Champion SkinJan 30, 20151 votes

I believe Mundo E gives 100 AD (up to 200 AD when he has 0% hp)

I generally view it like this bruisers and tanks are both durable However if you ignore bruisers they will deal damage to you and kill you If you ignore tanks they will CC and disrupt you (Most are in between these two)

Mundo would be a bruiser then as he deals damage not CC (because of his high base damages and % health damage which are gated by HP cost which is mitigated mid and late game by a tank build usually)

And while Swain has some CC it really isn't that great... his snare while pretty strong it is also slow and unreliable (even if you snare them they can still fight back) Swain has decent CC yes but still most of his threat is still from his damage not his CC (I don't think Swain would be all that great built only with tank items and no damage So I would say Swain is more of a bruiser then a tank