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Sona's PBE changes

KONO RUBICK DA··10 votes·1,650 views

Are back into PBE with differences, let's see what's up.

-Aura range increased to 400 from 350 -Aura duration is no longer extended by up to 2 seconds when 'tagging' allies

Nice , it's better than 350.

-Hymn of Valor (Q) damage (active) lowered to 40/70/100/130/160 from 40/80/120/160/200

i will need some explination here because losing 40 damage on a main spell isn't funny at all. overall with her ulti CDR passive, it reduces her burst and increase her DPS.

-Aria of Perserverance (W): Base Heal increased to 40/65/90/115/140 from 30/50/70/90/110 -Shield value increased to 30/55/80/105/130 from 35/55/75/95/115 -Heal no longer increases based on target's missing health.

10/10 was asked since the rework was released.

Song of Celerity (E):-Active changed: Now ["grants Sona and nearby allies 10/11/12/13/14% (+6% per 100 AP) movement speed for 3 seconds."] from [13/14/15/16/17% (7.5% per 100 AP) decaying self movement speed.] -Melody (aura) changed: Now ["On next basic attack within 5 seconds, gain 50/55/60/65/70 (+15% AP) movement speed for 2 seconds"] from [10-14% (+3.5% per 100 AP movement speed for 1.5 seconds]

better at lvl 1, sounds broken but riot will eventually fixe it, 100% better than the trash idea where she had bonus range.

-Crescendo (R) now reduces base cooldown of Q/W/E by 20/30/40% rather than potency increases on Q/W/E

Now i wonder if it stacks with CDR, if not it's terrible because it makes you unable to build a LOT of items.

feel free to add your thought.

26 Comments

ZT Xperimentor5 votes

Still rather have the old sona before her rework; though this seems like a vague improvement. Also it's hypocritical they're trying to limit her power while balancing, while not doing that with the several problematic champions still floating around.

LankPants3 votes

Song of Celerity (E):-Active changed: Now ["grants Sona and nearby allies 10/11/12/13/14% (+6% per 100 AP) movement speed for 3 seconds."] from [13/14/15/16/17% (7.5% per 100 AP) decaying self movement speed.] -Melody (aura) changed: Now ["On next basic attack within 5 seconds, gain 50/55/60/65/70 (+15% AP) movement speed for 2 seconds"] from [10-14% (+3.5% per 100 AP movement speed for 1.5 seconds]

That E really doesn't sound like a useful spell. It's basically going to be her current E, except in order to gain the MS boost you have to auto attack rather than just having it on activation. Even if the MS boost ends up being marginally better it really doesn't matter because move speed softcaps.

I really don't know what Riot's doing with Sona's E, they got it right the first time and now they just seem confused.

Crescendo (R) now reduces base cooldown of Q/W/E by 20/30/40% rather than potency increases on Q/W/E

Now i wonder if it stacks with CDR, if not it's terrible because it makes you unable to build a LOT of items.

It stacks multiplicatively with CDR, your CDR cap is increased to 52/58/64% without the bonus 5% from masteries.

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

50 bonus ms at lvl 1, nami's passive is 60, so with the 10% ms aura lvl 1 song of celerity will be a LOT better.

LankPants1 votes

You still need to land that AA for it to work. At current Sona gains 23% MS from the additive effects of rank 1 E, but she gets that instantly. The extra 13% is worth 42.5 MS anyway, so you only have an improvement of 7.5 MS.

Is her E on the PBE better than +25 range per rank, yes, is it better than live E, no.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

i'm talking to the bonus on team mate, but yea yu need to land the AA i can't complain about that everything needs gameplay

1011001110001 votes

It's unnecessary complexity. A portion of her damage output already relies on her being able to land her basic attack, not to mention some of her soft CC/utility is also tied to her basic attack as well. Why are we further tying her down to a basic attack gimmick by making her unable to gain an MS buff except by basic attacking? It's not like Sona was ever conceptualized as some basic-attack support.

Partholonian1 votes

Why are we further tying her down to a basic attack gimmick by making her unable to gain an MS buff except by basic attacking?

I think you're not reading it carefully enough. She (and everyone in cast range) gets one MS buff immediately on cast. Everyone she tags with the aura gets a DIFFERENT MS buff when they autoattack (basically a super-Phage, which BTW will probably stack with the item too).

Allies can get the level of MS buff she could previously only get for herself. Well, allies that can basic attack, anyway. Karthus may be out of luck.

It's not like Sona was ever conceptualized as some basic-attack support.

You've seen her passive, right? Attack modifiers have always been part of her kit. But now she can give them away too.

1011001110001 votes

{quoted}

I think you're not reading it carefully enough. She (and everyone in cast range) gets one MS buff immediately on cast. Everyone she tags with the aura gets a DIFFERENT MS buff when they autoattack (basically a super-Phage, which BTW will probably stack with the item too).

I read that, but that doesn't change the fact that she flat out loses base and scaling value on the initial cast, which reduces her actual mobility potential given no targets to auto-attack. It's simply promoting a REALLY aggressive playstyle for a REALLY squishy support.

You've seen her passive, right? Attack modifiers have always been part of her kit. But now she can give them away too.

Yeah, I've seen her passive. Depending on her last spellcast, she has either a damage boost to a trade or debuffs. Changes to her passive don't directly cut the output of her spells like this change does. I get that they want to make Sona some form of aggro-stance champion so that "she feels more meaningful", but you do that without making the champion so squishy and reliant on AP scaling, especially in the support class.

LankPants1 votes

Either way the raw MS E was the best iteration. Sona gives enough MS to allies already, any more and she's just wasting MS into the soft cap if her ally builds 1 MS item past boots. It looks like a lot of power but it's really not.

The raw MS E was good because it served its function, it let Sona manipulate range and utilise her auras decently. Her live E, as crappy of a spell as it is fills this role better than the PBE E and it's a role that Sona needs filled. 350-400 range is very short, Sona needs some strong MS to function and the PBE E ignores that fact.

FluffiestEeveeNA1 votes

I don't like what they're doing with her E. Her E already slows an enemy on hit with her passive, if she wants to catch up with an enemy she already has everything she needs. Also, adding more and more requirements to her kit makes her feel less like Sona. She is supposed to be an EXTREMELY simple champion! Adding more complexity to her makes her less her.

FluffiestEeveeNA2 votes

I don't like the nerf to the damage on her Q. It lowers her burst which is how she gets kills in lane. Also, on a totally personal level, it just doesn't feel right to have her be less of a lane bully. Nerf something else please.

Edit: Actually, after seeing the ult 20%cdr thing, not too sure. Just don't make her feel like she isn't Sona.

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

yep, it reduces her burst and increase her DPS.

Çhåryzård2 votes

Considering the fact that her Q has the lowest damage out of all the poke supports, why the hell would you nerf it further?

And "you don't have to aim it" is bs, seeing has Nami and Janna have point and click abilities that both do more damage than Sona's Q.

I've been saying this for so long, with these changes, Sona's laning phase is going to be garbage and there's no point in bringing her anymore when I have other supports who will do everything she does but better.

chipndip12 votes

See, here's the problem: Riot knows there's bigger underlying issues with Sona's kit that can't be solved by straight nerfs or buffs, but they don't want to put the time in to really make the changes that'll fix those issues. The E change is the start of something, but it won't come full circle if Riot keeps halfway committing to a real rework.

Like, the fact that I could use my powerchord E and have the chance of helping someone escape if we tag the guy I slowed with an auto (since it's a 2 second speed up) is actually a smart change. The problem, like I've been saying on repeat, is still closer to the roots of Sona's play pattern than it is the bells and whistles of her functions. A champ that has to steadily whittle away at people for gradual damage is just never going to have a place as a strong support pick (unless blatantly over-tuned in regards to numbers) over support options that bring what a support needs these days: Early play-making/breaking potential at smart ranges. You can say "She's being tuned for late game", but supports like Soraka, Janna, and Taric have good late games while having influential defensive early-game options. You can say "You can't avoid her damage", but the hard-cc in the kits of other supports is more valuable when your skill rises, hence the term skill shot. You can say "She has a ton of damage", but we all know her damage is only decent at like level 3, and even then the real threat is its consistency, not its burst, which we can also say leads to a very toxic play pattern of whittling people down with unavoidable damage, putting a timer on them to see if they can straight wipe you before you gradually dismantle them.

Sona's power with all these bits and pieces being allocated all over the joint is, well, all over the joint. She doesn't have a single move for concentrating on a target and making something happen like any other support. EVERYTHING is aoe, and thus you can't say Sona has no power because that's false. However, it's power in unnecessary places given her role and what she's supposed to be doing. This E change shows that Riot's finally identified this issue, but the rest of the package shows that they aren't committed to fixing that issue at all more than they just want pressure off of them.

SaltyKracka1 votes

They're making Sona a poke and run champ.

bottledpoop3 votes

{quoted}

They're making Sona a poke and run champ.

Thats what sona is already yo XD

zlumpy1 votes

More like unplayable IMO.

Nideak1 votes

I feel like this change takes her away from the support role and places her in the mage role (a machine gun mage) like Ryze (I'll get to that in a second). Here's my breakdown:

Her new R when stacked with 40% CDR gives 52/58/64% which now changes your Q from 8s (0 cdr) or 4.8s (40% cdr) to 3.84/3.36/2.88s (52/58/64% respectively) and while they did lower her damage by 40 points at max rank, you could almost get 2 Q's off compared to pre-change (well, almost: 5.76s vs 4.8s). While this does increase her overall damage the longer she stays in a teamfight, she gets a much larger benefit by building full AP compared to building support. 500 AP with a .5 ratio and 2 Q's fired off instead of the normal 1 is quite powerful (especially if you add in Lich Bane) This also has the same CDR on her E (8s base, 3.84/3.36/2.88s with max CDR + R passive) and make's her W from 10s (0 cdr) or 6s (40% cdr) to 4.8/4.2/3.6s (52/58/64% respectively). Her R get's a huge buff as well (at max CDR it makes it 36s at rank 3).

Now it is true she only has 4 forms of damage (her Q, her passive, her secondary damage on Q + Lich Bane autos, and her R) it doesn't quite make her on the same level as Ryze. It does, however, allow her to spam her spells just like him. Which also brings up the first major issue with this change as a support character: mana costs. While it will be pretty cool to spam Q every 2.88 seconds (while autoing with Lich Bane) your mana pool will be gone faster then the enemy can kill you. Her base mana is 1106 at level 18 (according to the wiki) and each Q is 65 mana. A full rotation (Q+E+Q) will be 195 mana, add 100 more if you need to throw in a W. While Lich Bane does give 250 mana, you would still need to rely on more mana items and/or blue buff (which I would want on my Mid, not on my support. Unless of course you have a mid and jungle who are manaless/resourceless then by all means).

Another issue with this change is it lowers her early game damage as a support (and a Mid as well), while increasing her late game damage (by a lot for Mid). While she will get to around 40% CDR near mid and late game (depending on your build + runes + masteries) as a support she loses the early game damage and will just become a walking speed buff + healbot until she can pick up a little AP + Lich Bane (and we all know how gold starved supports are compared to the rest of the roles) and at that point her damage gets mitigated by MR (thanks tank meta). She also won't have that 64% cooldown until she hit's level 16 (which is pretty late game for a support). For her role as a Mid laner, while on paper she looks pretty strong with the changes, her early game will be pretty sad. Until she gets a decent amount of AP + Lich Bane her damage in lane will be quite low. She can't clear fast, most of her damage will come from Q + passive (and any mid laner will just build MR to shut her down), and she is pretty squishy with no strong escapes (her MS is nice, but doesn't compare to a dash or a blink). On the flip side, with 500 AP and Lich Bane you can Q + Auto + E + Auto + Q + Auto (proc passive) to deal 410 (160 + 250 (.5 ap ratio)) + 586.75 (101 base damage at level 18 + Lich Bane Proc of 325.75 + 160 from Q auto attack damage increase) + 426.75 (E does no damage, but will reproc Lich Bane) + 410 (Q) + 995.55 (268.8 max level passive + 140 on the AP ratio due to Q passive damage increase + 160 from Q damage increase on next auto + 426.75 from Lich Bane Proc and base damage at level 18) for a grand total of 2,829.05 damage in about 6-7 seconds with E will also help you get out of range so you can get ready to do it again. Please take the theory craft above with a grain of salt, as it looks strong in theory, you might not get to output that damage in a team fight, especially when everyone is trying to focus you and/or ADC.

I could go on, but all in all do I feel like this would make her a stronger support overall? Yes. While she does get some nerfs to her early game, her late game becomes quite strong (even without 500 AP). However on the flipside if these changes go through do I think she will become one of the strongest late game supports? Yes. And the downside to having someone who can spam a heal every 3.6 seconds giving 196 heals (not including AP, but including the 30% heals and shields buff from the 2 items + 10% from masteries) and 182 shields will make her either first pick or banned every game. Even if she is weaker at the higher ELO, the lower ELO will be destroyed by her which will lead to more nerfs :(

So while I think this will be a strong change for her, I feel like it will hurt her overall in the long run.

Also I don't know if anything else in her kit changed so I apologize if any of my numbers above are wrong.

ValiantDogFood1 votes

Woah

azhelf3 votes

did you get any calculations wrong or am i missing something?? her E base CD is 12 and W is 10 so according to my common sense wouldn't W be shorter after all the CDR?

imo first changes to her E was best...

Nideak1 votes

My apologies, I don't know why I read 8s for E when it was 12s on the wiki. I'll fix the numbers when I'm not on my phone. As for the rest of the math it should be ok (feel free to check my work, I listed how I got each number next to it so it didn't look like I was spewing off numbers)

As for her E, I agree. The changes to her E force her to get into combat range just to trigger the second portion of her aura.

Overall I think I'll need to do more theory crafting to figure out if the changes are really beneficial or not.

Anu3isII2 votes

Her R is NOT affected by the base Cooldown reduction, only her Q, W and her E (her base abilities).

Nideak1 votes

My bad, this is why I shouldn't post late at night :P

I still need to work on some of the numbers from the new changes vs the old changes and find out if it really benefits her or not.

Anu3isII1 votes

From my perspective, the current still benefit her in the mid-late game, with the only problem being her Mana Costs.

Unfortunately for Supports, they always get behind in levels, making their late game come a lot later (and getting full build is pretty difficult), so it will be difficult to reach that point of the game.

Until now, Sona tended to be a snowball Support that wants to finish the game ASAP. Now she has the option to scale into the late game instead of being just a snowball Support.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

It clearly says it lowers her base ability cooldowns by 20/40/60, referring to Q/W/E only. Her ultimate will still only have a 60 second CD or whatever it is at 40%.

Punkkee1 votes

omfg sona soy garbage now

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