And while there may be more to come (please leave Q alone) I actually support the R nerf. As it is now it's really good for quick trades in 1v1 when it's supposed to be a disengage ultimate. It shouldn't be a hard hitting ability in the first place.
So yeah, some understandable nerfs. Now for the downvotes and comments about how she should be gutted or nerfed harder (Looking at you, Big Lincoln).
RiotMeddler7 votesFew quick notes on Poppy:
WoonStruck3 votesUnrelated, but how do you feel about Vlad at the moment, especially after the Rylai's nerfs?
Are you looking at giving him a little love, such as reverting the base HP (only losing ~1/2 hp compared to other users is nice) and base MS (lower MS differential as opposed to other users affected is nice) nerfs?
He already seems to be struggling, so I'd imagine he's on your radar after these changes.
RiotMeddler10 votesWe'll be assessing Vlad, Karthus, Aurelion Sol, Morde, Taliyah, Cass, Singed, Brand, Zyra, Azir, Elise, Rumble, Heimer, Kennen and any other Rylai's user I'm not immediately thinking of after the change is actually out and we've seen what impact has actually happened.
Rivuo1 votesWe'll be assessing Vlad, Karthus, Aurelion Sol, Morde, Taliyah, Cass, Singed, Brand, Zyra, Azir, Elise, Rumble, Heimer, Kennen and any other Rylai's user I'm not immediately thinking of after the change is actually out and we've seen what impact has actually happened.
Meddler I have a question. I fought a Taliyah in mid lane for the first time in a verrry long time.
Is it me or is taliyahs damage immense? It seems she truly has 100-0 burst damage which surprised me hard.. I dont know is that intended? Or am i the only one.
Astôlfo15 votesUm. Taliyah's damage is piss-poor trash.
WoonStruck3 votesIts not though. One of her only merits is her high damage right now.
If you think its poor, its your gameplay you're actually thinking of.
Astôlfo8 votesShe has merits?
WoonStruck4 votes10th in damage mid-lane. Totally does no damage, right?
You're stupid and biased if you think she does no damage. For you, specifically, she does no damage because you land nothing, most likely.
Like holy shit how biased do you have to be to believe that she does no damage when people who play Taliyah poorly on average (70% of her playerbase) have the 10th highest damage out of all of mid lane. 26k avg. That's a lot.
I am Razgriz4 votesDepends on how you view damage. Karthus is #1 in his role and Teemo is #2. They just deal a lot of damage over the course of a game but they don't necessarily have super egregrious damage. Syndra does, everybody would agree with that, and yet she's 16th in her role... and she has similar decent consistent output with her Qs. Karthus and Teemo have good dps but if DPS were king, why is Ezreal #3 and Corki #1? (Corki has better dps than Ezreal for sure but he's more about burst). With most other champs about dps like Jinx and Vayne (who also happens to be target agnostic) much lower.
Junglers tend to have the least amount of damage dealt even when they have the highest kills, because they don't usually spend time trading. Not because of kill-stealing.
She's "high" on the list because she offers decent consistent reliable damage, but getting it all off is somewhat difficult especially in a skirmish.
Sraeg20131 votesIn other words when damage dealers are concerned, lower damage dealt usually means that they have easier time killing their targets.
Faelivri1 votesI want to raise to you old Taliyah, when her e did not had damage cap. One of my favourite moments in my LoL games was when I managed to literally 100-0 opponent Vayne that was charging at me with her ult on with w+e combo. Teams reaction was priceless :D After that nerfs/changes happened...
She is a mere shadow of her former self to be frank. Hard to play and highly combo/position oriented. Roaming power after 6 is very strong and always was, but her high skill cap keeps her in check.
Zoezy1 votesYeah she used to be pretty boss. I remember I had one of the many games where they doubted me since I picked Taliyah. Managed to carry that game, get 17 or 18 kills and I 100-0'd a 12 kill Ahri just by landing a full Q. Was disgusting, though obviously you need to be really fed for that to even be possible. I still got love for her though, and hope they help her out a bit more. Kinda wish they hadn't of taken away the 50% dmg to mins, and made it like 25% or something. Or hell, just take off 40% instead. D: Either way, her Q damage has always been fairly strong if you manage land all 5 rocks. The point in worked ground is to put a leash on her q's damage. Anyone who thinks the move doesn't hurt, doesn't know what they're talking about.
Bellows3 votesWe'll be assessing Vlad, Karthus, Aurelion Sol, Morde, Taliyah, Cass, Singed, Brand, Zyra, Azir, Elise, Rumble, Heimer, Kennen and any other Rylai's user I'm not immediately thinking of after the change is actually out and we've seen what impact has actually happened.
Aurelion Buffs? Specifically, extra 50 base damage on ult? its SO AGGRIVATING doing a good trade and go to snipe them with a powerful voice of lgiht, only to have them walk away with 20 hp, having done barely a scratch at lvl 1. Its REALLY bad at lvl 1. Some love wouldnt be too oppressive but give him something to use in all ins better.
Abyssphere2 votesIt's not really supposed to be a burst tool, to be fair. It does the same damage as any damage + CC mid lane ult - Frozen Tomb, Petrifying Gaze, etc.
Nefas7 votesViktor is a bit of a big miss there
Raid Boss Morde7 votesVIktor doesn't need any buffs though. He has a slow/stun, and you're not supposed to have a guaranteed 2nd hit from his E.
Nefas7 votesSlow/stun is almost purely defensive.
Agree that you aren't supposed to have a guaranteed 2nd hit. That doesn't mean that he shouldn't be assessed to see if removing the high likelihood of getting that 2nd hit could heavily impact his performance
HazyCloud72 votesIts very much possible he wont need any buffs at all , but you don't have the information available to riot and you can't see into the future either. Time and statistics will tell who does and doesn't need a buff, not tinfoil hat players on the league boards stating their opinion as fact the first day that a patch is out.
doubleguac1 votesNot saying he'll need buffs necessarily, but it's worth pointing out that the meta is also shifting away from him.
Viktor's vulnerable against assassins and against mages like lux who just flat out out-range him.
I'm glad Rylais got nerfed though. It skewed mage balance incredibly hard. I think Riot's in a much better position to properly balance mages on a champion-by-champion basis now. Before they had to account for how well each mage utilized that busted item.
Cresmont1 votesexactly, as a viktor player, i hated having to get rylais, but now the 2nd part of the e will never hit unless stunned and thats so dumb
i dont think he needs a ¨buff¨ but he at least needs a Q.O.F change to help his laser out a bit
doubleguac1 votesLol I loved getting Rylais on Viktor because it was busted AF. You could just infinitely kite melees around with it. And kill dashless champions with nothing but your ult. Obviously it totally needed a nerf though.
The point of the mini-rework was to tone down his 1v1 burst, and make him more team dependent.
Which is frustrating. I've been playing Vik since S3, and his burst was always what I found fun about him.
But, making the second E tick less reliable is very much in line with Riot's apparent design goals for him.
He'll still have massive Q burst; it's just riskier to apply.
I do hope Riot keeps an eye on him though. He's not a Nidalee or a Lee Sin--he's not that flashy or fun to watch, so it seems unlikely that Riot is going to go out of their way to watch out for him. If the Rylais nerf hits him hard, he could definitely end up in the dumpster for a couple months. It's happened before.
Cresmont1 votesthats my point, it was too strong
i personally think the MYMU was really successful when it came to viktor he still has huge damage and huge burst but its not instant anymore (Which isnt healthy for the game)
im willing to wait a bit and get a decent q.o.l change like, making the 2nd part of his laser a tiny bit faster for a tiny less range
maybe put a better scaling on q? maybe a shorter cd w? just stuff that could help him out a bit not a direct damage buff or anyhting
barenner1 votesactually you are, they changed it because it was too good
Adalvar2 votesMeddler could i bother you with a reply to this thread?
Blitzidious3 votesIt warms my heart to see Singed on that list. I personally haven't seen the effects of the Rylai's nerf for him, but, can I ask what sort of changes you think you'd go for regarding singed? Personally, I can think of two ways to buff him. Either a movement speed increase, or a slow for his Q. Possibly both? (wink wink)
Cresmont2 votesbecause his q is aoe, it was 20 anyways, so it being cheaper is definately a buff, heś fine rn
inplane4 votesWe'll be assessing Vlad, Karthus, Aurelion Sol, Morde, Taliyah, Cass, Singed, Brand, Zyra, Azir, Elise, Rumble, Heimer, Kennen and any other Rylai's user I'm not immediately thinking of after the change is actually out and we've seen what impact has actually happened.
Glad to see you guys will assess the little Stoneweaver. She's in shambles right now and the 
nerf will only make her plummet further.
AirKingNeo3 votesPoppy was strong before CotC. Personally I think hitting her tankiness that allows her to ignore the laning phase for the most part (just take a CS deficit of like 20) and never die.
Octopussý2 votesIt's hard to farm as poppy, leave her alone and ask 3rd best winrate darius what he thinks about poppy and her 49% winrate.
SignMeUpGriff4 votesHey Meddler I have a post on the Shyvana W nerfs. If you don't want to read it ill give you a quick summary.
Shyvana has only been "Strong" for 1 patch so far and I think you guys should let the dust settle before nerfing her
Shyvana has always traded early clears for early ganking potential. This nerf eradicates that in my opinion.
A more detailed description is on my post and there is currently a small group discussion their ideas. I was wondering if you could clear some things up with context?
RiotMeddler4 votesWe're quite confident Shyvana's too strong at this point. We've got a while till 7.1 goes out, so that could potentially change. At present though we need to be figuring out appropriate nerfs however, the 6.23 changes added substantial power to her. Early clear power's still intended to be a strength of hers however, we're looking to reduce that not remove it.
IxtaliKing2 votesI really hate to be this guy, Meddler... but are you going to address anything to do with Karma at some point? I've seen you respond many of these threads in regards to other champs over past few weeks, but none to do with Karma.
Zepper2 votesGood news! she has nerfs in the pbe http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/12/126-pbe-update.html
SignMeUpGriff2 votesThanks, I was using strong language when saying it removed her early clear. I just didn't want Shyvana to immediately decline because she wouldn't possess a good early clear. Of course I know this is only patch day one and a lot can change. Thanks for the response. Much appreciated! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
The Blue Rajah3 votesJust to be clear, as a longtime Shyvana main, I'm perfectly happy with that nerf. I obviously play her in the jungle currently, as everyone does, but I used to really enjoy taking her top lane. This will be the first time in a looooong time that a nerf won't make her even weaker there, so I'm quite happy with it.
Cronovey1 votesI think the trade-off that she makes for that early clear power (poor ganking ability without setup CC) is probably pretty fair right now though. If you're looking at a way to tone Shyvana down in the overall game, hitting her ability to generate so much Fury in dragon form might be one way to do it. If she can land a Twin Bite on multiple targets, it massively extends the duration of her ultimate form to the point of it possibly being excessive, especially if fighting inside a minion wave. Capping the fury generation of her Dragon form Twin Bite seems like a place you could look if you're not sure the change to Burnout is the way to go.
You could also look at a potential nerf or reversion of the increased maximum health when using her ultimate, as it seems like something that might be a bit over the top even if it works thematically for the character.
Mimr1 votesI think the trade-off that she makes for that early clear power (poor ganking ability without setup CC) is probably pretty fair right now though. If you're looking at a way to tone Shyvana down in the overall game, hitting her ability to generate so much Fury in dragon form might be one way to do it. If she can land a Twin Bite on multiple targets, it massively extends the duration of her ultimate form to the point of it possibly being excessive, especially if fighting inside a minion wave. Capping the fury generation of her Dragon form Twin Bite seems like a place you could look if you're not sure the change to Burnout is the way to go.
You could also look at a potential nerf or reversion of the increased maximum health when using her ultimate, as it seems like something that might be a bit over the top even if it works thematically for the character.
I think the primary nerf Shyvana needs is a reduction to the initial impact damage of her dragon E. It gives her too much burst. Shyvana is supposed to be this juggernaut/ diver hybrid that deals strong sustained damage and she needs the bonus health of dragon form to do so. High burst damage is not an intended strength of hers however, and currently she's also a sort of a pseudo- assassin if she hits her R-E-auto-Q combo on a squishy. The easiest way to reduce her burst would be reduce the bonus damage on her dragon E impact damage. I'd say it could even be halved (so to 50-100 instead of 100-200) without it impacting her too negatively. Its damage over time component should stay as strong as it is now however, if you keep standing in it you deserve to take a ton of damage.
I say this as a Shyvana main by the way (well, main... I don't really have a true main but I've played her a lot over the years and have recently picked her back up due to the mini-rework). She's very fun to play and the dragon form that gets bigger, tankier and also better offensively over time feels really nice but the burst on dragon E just feels weird and sometimes like borderline cheating really. It's just silly that it deals 160-420 (depending on E rank and champion level) base damage.
wew WEW3 votesWe're quite confident Shyvana's too strong at this point. We've got a while till 7.1 goes out, so that could potentially change. At present though we need to be figuring out appropriate nerfs however, the 6.23 changes added substantial power to her. Early clear power's still intended to be a strength of hers however, we're looking to reduce that not remove it.
http://www.champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Jungle&sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend Excuse me? What about Vi, Hecarim, Ivern? Vi "suddenly" became better because of the colossus, but Hecarim is overpowered for a little too long, or is it that you don't nerf him because you guys like him? Ivern is such a blatantly overpowered champion that I have no idea what to say, he somehow managed to become worse than hecarim thanks to his infinite CC/slows.
There is no reason to touch shyvana during the next month or two simply because people in general have no idea how to play against her.
You need to wait. If you would wait with ivern and let people learn how to play him instead of buffing him for no reason, he wouldn't become such a disaster.
Blåbæret1 votesWe're quite confident Shyvana's too strong at this point. We've got a while till 7.1 goes out, so that could potentially change. At present though we need to be figuring out appropriate nerfs however, the 6.23 changes added substantial power to her. Early clear power's still intended to be a strength of hers however, we're looking to reduce that not remove it.
Last time I checked her win rate wasn't anything over the top. It's also interesting how Heca, Vi, Zac, Lee, Nocturne etc., all of which are stronger than Shyv, are seemingly immune to nerfs. The Lee nerf won't do jack.
It's interesting to see you nerf a champion people don't yet know how to play against, but you let Lee, Heca, Vi and Nocturne continue their domination.
Niyumi1 votes
- We'll be testing a few different options for hitting Poppy's resilience. Current plan is to try a shorter passive shield duration (3s most likely) next, since that reduces average resilience but in a way that allows both Poppy and her opponents to play around the change a bit.
Or you could just remove the passive on her W while she's above the health threshold, go the route of Ekko and move base damage into scaling, and eliminate literally every problem Poppy has. But I guess that makes too much sense. ^^
RexSaur3 votesFew quick notes on Poppy:
- The CC duration on the ult isn't changing (snap cast was always half the duration of the charged). Since we're specifying half damage for the snap cast however it seemed reasonable to call out the half CC as well (consistent message of how the quick version works).
- We'll be testing a few different options for hitting Poppy's resilience. Current plan is to try a shorter passive shield duration (3s most likely) next, since that reduces average resilience but in a way that allows both Poppy and her opponents to play around the change a bit.
- The CotC nerfs in 6.24 will assumedly affect Poppy somewhat. We think she's strong enough she'll need changes to her kit as well, we'll be watching the impact 6.24 has though of course in case the CotC nerf hits her harder than expected.
Please go through the passive duration shield nerf, thats exactly where she needs to be hit at, 6 second shield + her W + CoC makes it so it hard to find a window where poppy is actually vulnerable to trades.
DCYOUNG8883 votesWhy nerf poppy's health regen though?
Cresmont2 votesher laning is pretty dominant and she gets resistances for free so nerfing her regen a bit isnt that bad
Myrmiron2 votes
