So, what's the counterplay to Alistar's WQ combo?

Ralanr·May 19, 2017·4 votes·2,824 views

I tend to play the cow a lot (not recently. Rakan usually takes up that spot) and I've been wondering about his WQ combo. As far as I am aware, Alistar has stayed such a stable pick in the support lcs meta (at least, when melee or tank supports are meta he's pretty much the goto pick) because of how incredibly reliable his WQ combo is in the hands of a pro. It practically looks like one ability when used.

And I'm just thinking, what exactly is the counterplay? The charge is targeted, so I don't see you dodging it. I guess if you can stop him mid charge with hard CC, but is that it?

And if so, is it healthy? I'm genuinely curious and don't have anything against him. But is his combo a healthy one in league currently?

39 Comments

AhristocatsMay 19, 20175 votes

any dash will make you escape his combo if he's cc'ed during the dash he won't be able to use Q

in case you didn't realise alistar Q doesn't stun anymore since the garbage rework he got (i'm biased and hate that rework) he needs to stay near someone for 3 or 4 sec before using a clunky attack animation with poor attack speed to stun them

there is a reason alistar isn't played anymore

the rework destroyed him destroyed his sustain destroyed his ability to do damage since his passive that dealt like tons of damage in teamfight AND TO TOWERS is gone destroyed his ult as it's just a cleanse followed by a "you can ignore me for some seconds" as they removed the 100 AD steroid

i don't like this alistar rework, and no one talks about it

RalanrMay 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna X RubicK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YXAcm9nK,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-05-19T15:43:56.700+0000)

any dash will make you escape his combo if he's cc'ed during the dash he won't be able to use Q

in case you didn't realise alistar Q doesn't stun anymore since the garbage rework he got (i'm biased and hate that rework) he needs to stay near someone for 3 or 4 sec before using a clunky attack animation with poor attack speed to stun them

there is a reason alistar isn't played anymore

the rework destroyed him destroyed his sustain destroyed his ability to do damage since his passive that dealt like tons of damage in teamfight AND TO TOWERS is gone destroyed his ult as it's just a cleanse followed by a "you can ignore me for some seconds" as they removed the 100 AD steroid

i don't like this alistar rework, and no one talks about it

To be frank, you hate a lot of reworks and I don't think I've seen you speak positively of many.

Edit: also, his Q used to stun on top of knocking people up?

Sahn UzalMay 19, 20171 votes

What the fuck does Frank have to do with this? Leave him out of this would ya?

Frank has enough shit to deal with already.

RalanrMay 19, 20171 votes

It's not my fault Frank gets into a lot of shit.

Sahn UzalMay 19, 20171 votes

Come on man, give Frank a break...

AhristocatsMay 19, 20172 votes

Alistar rework aimed to make him healthier they managed to make him healthier by doing everything listed above

In exchange, they didn't give him A SINGLE GOOD THING . They made his stun unreliable, his damage unreliable, his pushing power removed, his sustain unreliable

nothing was added as a compensation, and thus Alistar is extremely garbage now, so yes i think i have my reasons to hate a rework that destroyed one of my old support main

And Yes, Alistar Q used to stun after the knock up

RalanrMay 19, 20171 votes

Huh...I'm probably one of the few people that like unreliable power that isn't rng.

Mecha MaIphiteMay 19, 20172 votes

tons of damage in teamfight AND TO TOWERS

his passive dealt like an auto of damage per spell tho

unless you went ap

AnagsMay 19, 20173 votes

He pretty much can't do anything for a while after that combo other than try to run next to you and get the trample stun.

He seems pretty balanced right now but he isn't top tier.

He isn't the best at peeling but he is solid. He has pick potential but he has to put himself at more risk and his team has to follow.

He's also very rarely played in competitive play now so that isn't an issue at all.

So yes his combo is fine. It's all he really has.

a very bad nadoMay 20, 20171 votes

^In a nutshell.

undesirable teamMay 19, 20172 votes

not walking into him

RalanrMay 19, 20171 votes

Yeah personally I dislike the counterplay of "stay out of their range".

Really makes them hard to interact with.

Darkdemon653May 19, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Yeah personally I dislike the counterplay of "stay out of their range".

Really makes them hard to interact with.

What's your counterplay to Akali's Q or literally any other targeted ability?

RalanrMay 19, 20171 votes

Disliking means I don't like it and feel it should be dealt with a different way, not that I don't accept it's existence.

Though frankly all that point and click on Akali really makes me think she needs a rework to let her have a great hyper carry assassin late without being so reliable in landing skills (though energy champions tend to NOT be good late for a reason).

a very bad nadoMay 20, 20171 votes

At this point you might as well say full crit Fiddlesticks needs a rework.

RalanrMay 20, 20171 votes

I can't imagine they'll keep crittlesticks in mind when they do eventually rework him.

a very bad nadoMay 20, 20171 votes

Shhhh man. I'm a Fiddlesticks main on EUNE. I only build full crit on him and I'm a low masters smurf with a 92% winrate on him. You can't tell anyone.

PennsMay 19, 20172 votes

You can dodge/flash it if you react fast enough or predict it.

Darkdemon653May 19, 20172 votes

Not getting within Headbutt range

a very bad nadoMay 20, 20171 votes

Sahn UzalMay 19, 20172 votes

Well it has a limited range, he can be knocked out of hit by a displacement, and if you have good reflexes, you can use a blink/flash to avoid it after he casts it. In mid to lategame fights, your team can also try to prevent the enemy from capitalising on the Cow combo, by, for example, zoning them with a Maokai ult or something.

NotSpecialDudeMay 19, 20172 votes

The big counterplay to his main combo is to not bunch up and focus on him. Ali's only peel is also his engage so if he dives your team but most don't get caught, his ally is out of position and vulnerable. Ali himself has rather low damage making ignoring him easy for all except the most squishy of champs. Throw in the high mana cost of his abilities and he can easily become a worthless meat shield if he's baited properly

RalanrMay 19, 20171 votes

Ok, so it's more in predicting than reacting.

NotSpecialDudeMay 19, 20171 votes

There is a level of reaction in the form of well timed counter engages, but the key to beating ali is preventative in nature. As long as you keep just enough apart so that he can't knockup both of you, his engage can be forced into a draw. His high mana cost will eventually do him in at this point.

XxxLumberJackxxXMay 19, 20171 votes

Um. When was Ali last played in competitive? The only Melee picks are thresh Braun and tahm and that's after lulu karma nami are banned.

Poke him so its too dangerous to engage. Then zone him from xp so he is under leveled.

Out of lane he does no dmg and if he initiated there is none peeling your assassins off his backline for 15s

OtterlyLostMay 19, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Um. When was Ali last played in competitive? The only Melee picks are thresh Braun and tahm and that's after lulu karma nami are banned.

Poke him so its too dangerous to engage. Then zone him from xp so he is under leveled.

Out of lane he does no dmg and if he initiated there is none peeling your assassins off his backline for 15s

Thresh isn't melee; he's ranged. I haven't seen Nami in a competitive game in a while because Thresh specifically counters her and a lot of poke champions; they're squishy and if they get hard engaged on, they blow the fuck up.

As for the counter to Ali's combo, I've personally flashed the second part of it. Its an extremely flashable combo.

a very bad nadoMay 20, 20171 votes

You just need to work on your reaction time.

RalanrMay 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Um. When was Ali last played in competitive? The only Melee picks are thresh Braun and tahm and that's after lulu karma nami are banned.

Poke him so its too dangerous to engage. Then zone him from xp so he is under leveled.

Out of lane he does no dmg and if he initiated there is none peeling your assassins off his backline for 15s

Honestly idk. I don't watch lcs much but when I do I tend to see him.

AhristocatsMay 19, 20171 votes

braum isn't played

tahm kench is played few time to be a zhonya bot to his ADC

thresh is the only viable tank in competition and that's because he's ranged and can survive to ranged poke (isn't even true sometimes) but even thresh is top 6th pick rate after Karma Zyra Nami Lulu Malzahar

a very bad nadoMay 20, 20171 votes

Malzahar support is dead right now, just so you know.

WráthfulMay 19, 20171 votes

Lucian E with a good timing completely counters alistar's engage

a very bad nadoMay 20, 20171 votes

Even an Ezreal E.

LyingOnLineMay 19, 20171 votes

Mostly in the fact that it was once literally all of his CC, and using it as such meant he would be useless for the next while.

RalanrMay 19, 20171 votes

That's not healthy design imo.

LyingOnLineMay 19, 20171 votes

It probably wasn't. So they changed it.

Now the WQ combo is much less powerful, and if he really wants to lock anybody down it's more like EWQ-punch.

a very bad nadoMay 20, 20171 votes

WQE+punch.

a very bad nadoMay 20, 20171 votes

You're trolling. Even a pro won't always get their combo right. It's all about timing. If you Q at the right moment when you W, you sure as hell should be able to get your combo off. His combo is perfectly fine in the current meta. For most people, he's seen as garbage right now. Personally, I haven't been playing Alistar much right now. I did used to one-trick him but now, all I do is spam Yasuo. If you want to talk about ACTUAL unhealthy supports, the following champs are what needs nerfing asap;

Rakan Karma Lulu Thresh

k wìxMay 20, 20171 votes

Humbly disagree on Rakan - He's overrated, and his tells are massive. I think Riot agrees too, because he has Buffs on the patch notes.

Everything else is spot on though ;)

As a follow up, the counterplay is distance, similar to Annies burst scenario. You stop it by not being close enough to get targeted in the first place, and yea - I definitely think it keeps him competitive. That's not really a bad thing.