Can we have a discussion on Karma?

AFilthyCaitMain·Aug 5, 2017·10 votes·623 views

Karma is still currently in a REALLY awkward spot.

Karma mid isnt that viable, and its mostly because if Karma mid is viable, then Karma support is oppressive.

Karma could really use some rethinking about her kit. Her shield is just so good, that it just makes her get instantly thrown in bot lane. Her damage suffers from this as having both a good shield and mid lane damage is just not going to work balance wise.

Karma has the potential to be like a battle mage, but her shield seems to just hold her back. She just shield bots late game since her damage isnt allowed to be any better than it currently is.

Riot seemingly intended for her to be both viable in mid AND as a support, but that doesnt seem to be working out so well right now. Shes just left in this awkward spot of being a battlemage esque enchanter

#Discussion: Should Karma be changed, or is she fine as a support?

22 Comments

DariusDemiurgeAug 5, 20177 votes

Return old karma. Problem solved.

Warlord RhinarkAug 5, 20172 votes

Maybe you should have made a poll?

AFilthyCaitMainAug 5, 20172 votes

No, because I want open ended discussions and why this or that should happen.

Warlord RhinarkAug 5, 20172 votes

You can make a poll in addition to encouraging discussion in the comments.

SujirenAug 5, 20172 votes

Bruiser karma top is where she is at right now, not even joking.

DemainaNyxAug 6, 20171 votes

Played Karma in Ascension with item 3025 item 3075 item 3047 item 3504 item 3107 item 3083 vs a Yasuo, Fiora, Wukong, Kayn, and Talon with 4 building lethality. I tanked the same amount of damage (mitigated + damage taken) as my allies with half the deaths of them. So crazy.

Zero DriveAug 5, 20172 votes

Karma is one of my favorite champions in the game (new Karma, never played old) and one of the few that I own every single skin for. I love her battle mage theme, nothing beats running around and outplaying someone with a mantra'd W. Love her ultimate being available from level one and adore her AoE shield. I do agree that the shield is holding her back though. If I had to choose, I'd make her a top/mid laner. The shield strength should be decided by the amount of allies you have present. Karma shielding herself should be at 100% strength. Shielding an ally should be 75% shield strength. Mantra'd shield should be -5% for every additional ally shielded but the speed boost duration increased by 2 seconds. That's my 2 cents anyway.

Also you should have made a poll. The lack of a poll isn't going to incentivize people to join in the discussion, and we lose out on what the popular opinion is regarding Karma .

inplaneAug 5, 20172 votes

Get rid of her teamwide shielding capabilities and make it so that she has to carefully decide who to shield. Rework her Q to give her something more battlemage-esque, not pokemage-esque. Make her W work like Old Karma 's W. A tether that affects anybody who touches it while it is cast. This way, she has to get into the fight and actually contribute. Not stay back and spam R E and spells to refresh Mantra's cooldown to spam more R E.

She's "fine" right now, but she should be a lot more awesome. She's lost so many interesting parts in her kit in the past 4 years that she's not really fun to play anymore. No more minion shielding. No more boomshield from R E. LCS and itemization encourages her to be a shield bot.

IxtaliKingAug 5, 20172 votes

I think that Karma needs to be changed, but in a way which is inclusive of both her player bases. For mid she needs her Mantras to all give damage as standard again, the whole extra root and super shield thing is dead and was a bad idea from the start.

For the support role they should have given her an ally function for RW, the pre 5.10 RE was a fine multi-purpose ability. I think that would have been a more suitable way to increase her contextual decision making, because it would have done exactly that.

For mid she also needs a way of competing against other mages waveclear. Making RQ ground targeted addresses both her waveclear issue and the artillery cast type on a hybrid Battlemage issue. I think giving her a solid waveclear ability locked behind her Mantra CD is fair. I'd also take some damage out of her Q so she isn't as overbearing in bot.

I might post a full balance suggestion for Karma at some point soon, just to put it out there.

The DeckownerAug 6, 20172 votes

Have you seen tank Karma top? That shit is ridiculous, W healing is so dumb.

koshkyraAug 5, 20171 votes

I dont get why you're saying her damage isnt high enough to be a mage/viable mid

RQ can literally burst people for about 1200+ when full mage build

SanKakUAug 5, 20171 votes

I have fun playing her as support, especially with the recent changes to the shielding power items. I used to do Undying Grasp with her, but now I take Windspeaker's Blessing. You can take the bonus shielding mastery in Resolve as well for even more shielding power(but only on herself). And it's really fun to snare the enemies.

chipndip1Aug 5, 20171 votes

We've had a CRAP TON of discussions on Karma, man. More so than she deserves if you ask me.

But if you ask me: Yes, she's fine as a support. Not EVERY mage has to go mid lane. Back before they made Karma more support-like, Karma mid wasn't all that hot. Starts strong and falls off a mountain. If anything, it's her W tether that sucks.

inplaneAug 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

We've had a CRAP TON of discussions on Karma, man. More so than she deserves if you ask me.

But if you ask me: Yes, she's fine as a support. Not EVERY mage has to go mid lane. Back before they made Karma more support-like, Karma mid wasn't all that hot. Starts strong and falls off a mountain. If anything, it's her W tether that sucks.

She's a fine support because she spams teamwide shields at a rapid succession. Use R E, mash spells at the nearest enemy, use R E again because of her Mantra refreshing so quickly. Rinse and repeat. Along with ridiculous support itemization ( item 3190 item 3107 item 3222 ), you basically cannot kill her team if there's a proper frontline present. Her damage isn't note-worthy and her tether isn't anything special. Being a shieldbot is all she has and it's boring.

IxtaliKingAug 5, 20171 votes

That was before locket was nerfed for Enchanters. Now she's garbage even as a support, she's not fine anywhere. In fact, she performs worse in bot than mid and her play rate has plummeted in both.

inplaneAug 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That was before locket was nerfed for Enchanters. Now she's garbage even as a support, she's not fine anywhere. In fact, she performs worse in bot than mid and her play rate has plummeted in both.

Well now, it's her only viable playstyle as a Support since she has nothing left. Really hope Riot does something to refresh her playstyle to what it truly should be because it's sad to see how abysmal she has become.

IxtaliKingAug 6, 20171 votes

Well it definitely was her last viable play style, but now that has a 45% win rate.

chipndip1Aug 6, 20171 votes

I mean, and? That's what enchanters do. They shield. If this were to be fixed, there's a bigger issue to be addressed when it comes to enchanter game play.

inplaneAug 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I mean, and? That's what enchanters do. They shield. If this were to be fixed, there's a bigger issue to be addressed when it comes to enchanter game play.

It's not fun to play as or play against. Good examples of Enchanters are Lulu and Taric . They buff their teammates in a variety of ways that have clear counterplay. Karma 's R E had no counterplay when it was popular in the LCS and is still very frustrating.

chipndip1Aug 6, 20171 votes

Lulu has ZERO counter-play. What are you on?

Taric DOES. Lulu's fucking awful in that regard. Like the worst except for Sona.

RafatinoniAug 5, 20171 votes

I think she should be changed someway, her winrate is about 46,5% (All ranks). On support side, there are somewhat similar champions that do better overall, like Sona. On Mid side, she doesn't just have the same impact on the game that most midlaners do. If not changed, maybe she should receive a buff.