Or at least lower it.
Or replace it with a small bonus HP ratio to make his tank builds more appealing.
Just don't balance him around a gimmicky secondary unit like Malzahar, I really like playing full tank Maokai Jungle.
hhaavviikk4 votesyes because we clearly need less build diversity!
Malicious Metal3 votesRiot shouldn't nerf tank fizz! It would harm build diversity!
Azureee2 votesLove how u got downvoted for this, hypocrisy at it's finest LOL. Build diversity only matters when it affects supports and adcs who are the majority on these boards :)
HalcyonDweller1 votesyes because we clearly need less build diversity!
This was not the way to convey your point. Instead of getting the opposition to listen to you, you bashed them with satire and pissed them off.
You hurt your point more than helped it by doing this.
Serika Zero2 votesit doesn't matter honestly.
The reason maokai works as support is due to 
.
His E automatically slows and does damage over time, making the mask proc more often than not.
to 'stop', the maokai support, they should just make the E do all damage at once. Simple, very easy......... and doesn't break the champion entirely. Additional change: E can't stack, getting hit by 1 will make consecutive ones in the next 1-2 seconds deal only 50% dmg
Ralanr1 votesHonestly they probably won't stop Maokai support. It's much easier to do than in top where one person doesn't have to worry about bushes that much and his jungle clear still works with them.
He might be a jungle/support now.
Serika Zero1 votesits not about how "easy" it is
Is about gold efficiency. If you reach your power spike with just one item and 1 skill maxed. You don't need that much gold or that many levels to begin with. And that's what makes you ideal for support role, which, gets the lowest amount of gold and will most likely have the lowest level in the game.
I mean, sure, take the likes of Akali, she gets a power spike at 
and 
. But she still scales nicely with gold and wants more gold. And her levels matter a lot, at least till 16.
Or the likes of Darius, which power spikes at 
. Even if its an early power spike, he still wants gold to ramp up in his kit.
However, champions with high utility that spike hard with just one item, hence why they are usually mages, end up in support role. As you can still use their utility and their powers even if you have to waste more gold than others on warding.
And usually, if you are not getting feed, the jungler is the 4th one in the team gold wise, above the support but ahead of the laners that farm minions. Barring a few exceptions like shyvana or yi which can clear jungle very fast over and over again, this rule stays.
This is my simple view on it.
Same reason why malzahar went support. The entire power was shifted into W, so, just get a RY combo. 
and you no longer care about your other item slots such as 
etc, you can just build whatever as you don't need the AP to make it work.
Meanwhile, pre rework malzahar wanted RoA into RY combo into more AP as his abilities actually did damage if he got AP items.
Ralanr1 votesOk not easy, I think a more appropriate word was "effective"
Maokai's saplings in bot feel more effective than they do in top. Since supports (and certain tanks I guess) are better at spiking with levels over items, they end up being more effective in lanes where they can let everyone else farm the gold.
At least that's how I view it. Maokai's saplings are just really effective in bot now, especially with how their damage works.
Hyperiön2 votesThey funneled all of his damage into his E. He would pretty much need base damages raised on other abilities to keep him playable.
xJLx MCHammer1 votesHigh base damage just make it annoying too
The PBE changes suggest that it's going from 4% to 8%.
Even with no scaling, the problem is still there. That is, if you think that's a problem
Ralanr2 votesHigh base damage on tanks is relatively common as it allows them to actually have an early game (and a jungle clear) instead of farming in an abusive labor camp (because your opponent won't let you farm peacefully).
Making it scale with a stat that he's supposed to build and cannot get a lot of quickly is probably the best option.
Though I think depending on the health scaling it could make stoneborn Maokai support strong.
Sire Hippington1 votesAll for it - If he gets compensated on his other ap ratios. But removeing his ap-bruiser builts like they did on Seju would be shit. No one had issues with ap or bruiser tanks in the past then they had much higher total ratios on thier kit than now. I understand That they want to reduce the damage of fulltank builts, but their is no reason to remove the option of going more offensive as long as it comes with a reasonable tradeoff. It's said enough as it is that they killed APish Seju and Zac builts and probably hurt AP-ramus a good bit with the ult ratio nerf. Ohh, and the killing of Ap-allistar with his small rework when they reduced his consistant aoe damage and took the ap ratio of his heal.
Arduno1 votesJust make the sapling like swains Q damage over time where the damage duration increases based on the amount of auto attacks
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
Chønklord1 votesSupport has plenty of champions.
Also, a lot of non-support champions can fill the support role just fine; conversely, support champions usually cannot fill a solo lane role at all.
Chønklord1 votesWhile we're at it let's just make sure he's gutted from top jg and supp so he's never played again except like 0.01% of the population.
never forget.
Malicious Metal1 votesAatrox is a somewhat common pick nowadays, even in high elo. So is Singed.
Urgot's rework is just around the corner and Zac has a lot of buffs waiting for him.
Ryze is just a mess, that's why he's being kept weak.
Chønklord1 votesSinged is barely played anymore except by hardcore mains (and even some high profile mains have mostly stopped playing due to indirect nerfs and damage/mobility creep).
And even those that do play him don't have much fun anymore with singed due to the fact he has to pretty much be built as a full tank to even survive mid to late game. And he's not a tank.
Aatrox has similar issues and mostly is only played by OTPs or hardcore mains that know the champ inside and out.
So of course these players will artificially inflate the win-rate numbers.
ZT Xperimentor1 votesBetter be a high health ratio since they nerfed the health on every tank item.
HalcyonDweller1 votesWhat if when they are thrown in to a bush then they could stick to enemies, but wouldn't detonate when they reach the enemy? Instead they tick %HP damage for some small duration and then blow up for less damage than they currently deal.
Another way to add counterplay would be to make it so that the saplings attaching to the enemy are what cause them to be slowed, this way they could cleanse them off or use QSS or Mikael's Crucible to remove them.
This would require some animation tweaks for the ability, but it would be really cool thematically. It ought to be simple enough to use the animation for sticking for both regular saplings and supercharged ones, while using additional particles to show when the saplings are supercharged and ticking for damage.