@Riot, Could you make CS a liiiiittle bit less important for grades in RGM modes and ARAM?

Dr Poro··65 votes·2,431 views

http://imgur.com/OoBbDHl

12/0/13, not bad. But wait, I'm the worst player of my entire team because I only had 19 CS. Forget that I had more gold than Nocturne and midlane Orianna dispite this low CS and forget about my highest kill participation (2nd highest dmg to champs) and lowest death count. I sucked at CSing.

And you know why? Because I was in lane with Vel'Koz who cleared waves instantly so that I could easily land my Qs. Our lane synergy was on point and we killed the first turret and inhib BEFORE 2v1 toplane.

Yes, it was a 5v4 and I personally think that it's too easy right now to get S scores in 5v4s (system should take this into account and compare it with other 5v4 games) but I cringe by the fact of how important Riot rates CS in gamemodes where you're laning with more than 1 person. Hexakill, OFA, URF, ARAM and Nemisis draft should not have the same weight in their grade for early CS.

The game after, I had 14/9/19 on Vladimir. Meh, not as good as the previous game, but still okay. I received S+. Why? Because with 165 CS I had the highest of my team. Good for me. (I actually get S or S+ half the time in this mode, even with shitty KDA, because I usually splitpush.)


##Make (early game) CS less important for grades when you play in lanes with 2 or more people. The one with waveclear/who is allowed all the farm by their teammates shouldn't get an automatic S+. They'll already have an advantage by having more gold than the rest. Sometimes your role in the team isn't to farm early. But in these game modes, Riot's system doesn't seem to recognize it when players are willingly not going for the CS but giving it to their team instead.

46 Comments

FantasySniper13 votes

CS in general is too heavy of a factor.

Yes, you're compared with players in your elo range using the same champion. No, that does not mean 15 CS should be the difference between an S- and an A+.

Gosh Darn7 votes

They need to consider CS for the grade but not REQUIRE that it reaches a certain threshold to achieve high ranks. EX: 5/0/5 and 170 CS should be comparable to 10/0/10 and 100 CS. Lack of CS could just mean that you're coordinating fantastically, getting barons and having teammates clear waves while you apply enormous pressure.

When I play super aggressive champions this always happens. Nevermind the fact that I have 80% kill participation, more than half the team's kills, a perfect KDA, and applied so much pressure that the enemy team surrendered at 20:02. I don't have a shit ton of CS so I guess I'm trash according to the champion mastery system.

Handy Sandy 6 votes

CSing is a skill, and if you aren't good enough at that skill then you don't deserve the high skill grade of an S/S+, it's the main thing that gets you money and early leads. Supports can still get high grades without that much cs, as long as they're playing an actual support champ. Any midlaner/top/jungler or adc should get high cs though.

Dr Poro29 votes

Completely agree. In Summoner's Rift normals/ranked. When you're the only one farming in your lane and every CS that you didn't get is one that you failed to get.

When you're playing with 2, 3 or 5 in one lane, it's often a choice to give one player most of the CS (the one with waveclear, or a hyper-carry) while others focus on poking.

hhaavviikk22 votes

cs'ing in ARURF and ARAM takes skill? HAHASivir HAHAHAAhri HAHAAnivia HAHABrand

aspects11 votes

Lissandra

Synnx73 votes

{quoted}

CSing is a skill, and if you aren't good enough at that skill then you don't deserve the high skill grade of an S/S+, it's the main thing that gets you money and early leads. Supports can still get high grades without that much cs, as long as they're playing an actual support champ. Any midlaner/top/jungler or adc should get high cs though.

So you're saying that playing whack-a-mole , running around in circles like a fucking headless %%%got , and landing the killing blow on the minion , is skill? If anything this is the most boring, non skill, dumb mechanic in a MOBA. Oh wait, this game is a copy from WC3 mod

Votable Jester3 votes

CSing is an important skill. I won't deny it's a bit boring in and of itself, but there are interesting things related to it. You can take advantage of the knowledge of your opponent going for a last hit to get some harass on them, or in the reverse, avoid their harass while getting that cs.

Regardless of how boring it may be, it is indeed a skill.

Toplane Fencer2 votes

Uhm, yes, it is a huge and very important skill. If you don't like LoL wtf are you doing on the boards.

Synnx71 votes

{quoted}

Uhm, yes, it is a huge and very important skill. If you don't like LoL wtf are you doing on the boards.

Lurking around to see further Riot's incompetence. Playing Hots , with 11 maps around instead of one , and no fucknig last hitting :). AND no champ favoritism.

Toplane Fencer3 votes

Did you notice it's ARAM? lol.

Handy Sandy 1 votes

{quoted}

Did you notice it's ARAM? lol.

Oh wait.... no wonder i got downvoted into oblivion..rip t_t

Xonra6 votes

That and towers.

Just played a game of Jayce and I took every tower but 1 (including nexus towers). One of those I took I took about 80% of it even then, and 100% of the others (team was chasing and fighting while I just pushed cause no one stopped me).

The cho chasing with less than 100 cs but with 16 kills got an S.

I got a B lol

Yeah I'm sure we put in the same effort towards winning :P

Saianna4 votes

This grading system is obviously bonkers.

There's simply no point of expecting an S while playing solo game. It most likely won't happen (unless miracle, smurfing or 5v1 lucky DC).

Why I say so? Cause this system isn't hanged/tweaked. We get no info about Riot changing/fixing/tweaking that. So yeah..

Dr Poro2 votes

Well, I get a lot of S games as solo players, mainly in gamemodes like URF and OFA, rarely in modes like ascension or ARAM where you are forced to suicide in order to shop. The point is that in some gamemodes, you can easily abuse the system by non-stop farming and S games are handed out to the wrong people. Sometimes I go splitpush because I'm 0/3 and end up 4/7/7 and I still get S because I got the highest CS.

Saianna2 votes

I'm sorry I wanted to say on "normal" SR. In FGM or ARAM getting an S is alot easier, but still sucks if you try to get S in solo.

Tbh this grading system is just impossible. It's waaaay too random and all over the place. My friend with overall worse score than me (like everything was below me).. he got an A and i got an A -. Sorry, but's that bshit.

FallenSeruvim2 votes

It stops people from abusing alternate game modes to earn mastery of champs. Its soooo much fun to get in a game with someone who is Mastery 7 on a champ and yet they are completely boosted and show to have little to no knowledge or ability on the champ. I'm left staring at my screen like... wtf???

Wimbledofy2 votes

you can only get mastery 6/7 from normal summoners rift i thought.

FallenSeruvim1 votes

Oh, that may be the case. I'm honestly not sure then.

Kynami3 votes

Here's the thing... almost anyone can get an S+ assuming they get fed and go full snowball. This happens even in bronze, but the rate at which somebody can reliably pull that off is what changes with experience and skill. So yeah, I've seen people with mastery seven that only had ~35-40K on a champion and then others with over 200K and mastery seven but are down in bronze for bad decisions.

And you could only get mastery tokens from the rotating modes for the first couple weeks before they patched it so you can only get tokens from the "gold standard" normal Summoners Rift.

Slartibartfast2 votes

I know that feel, being 9/1/27 Alistar in ARAM and still only get A, because your team of Varus, Lux, Caitlyn, Victor barely left 10 CS for you to farm.

dunkeroni2 votes

Riot: Can you please remove Grades from URF mode? Like, why are they even there? It makes no sense.

it be lìke that1 votes

why are you concerned with your grade tho in these formats? the little bit of mastery?

i surely hope you cannot get mastery 6/7 in them, that would be a complete joke.

RocketRelm12 votes

There's this new system Riot implemented that goes by the name of Hextech Crafting. Earning an S- rank or higher as a champion you own gives you a Chest, which gives you Free Loot.

it be lìke that2 votes

you dont deserve a lootbox for getting an s in non competitive game modes imo.

R181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bish im saucin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YG0kEEQ3,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-09-24T20:41:44.654+0000)

you dont deserve a lootbox for getting an s in non competitive game modes imo.

I somewhat agree with you. While I think that it would make sense to only learn loot boxes in ranked, Riot wants players to get more boxes than keys (it's a great business strategy) More importantly, why are we able to earn level 6:7 champion tokens in normals? It's way too easy.

it be lìke that1 votes

agree with that too.

and yeah ive noticed it. i always have far more boxes than keys.

Ace Access 5 votes

the loot box you get from getting an S

Dr Poro2 votes

Yes, for most people this is the reason. In my case, I just want to get >S- on all champions :) (too bad it'll reset next season ;'( )

RocketRelm1 votes

If you had that much dedication to really wanting it, you could keep a separate notepad or word doc, or file and check off each champion as you complete them. So it's not affected by the reset (And perhaps league'll give a 'yearly best rank' and 'forever best rank').

Dr Poro1 votes

No, I just like to scroll through my champion pool and see all those S's. I didn't give a fuck about rating before Riot implemented this.

strut1 votes

is this a level 30 game?

Dr Poro1 votes

Yes, why?

strut1 votes

Nevermind my bad

Stillname1 votes

You aren't compared to a standard set by riot you are compared to other nid players in the same game mode. So since nid is super op in that game mode you have to do better than other people who did really well on her.

It seems to be even worse in shorter games because you get compared to other people who stomped hard and got really good scores.

Dr Poro1 votes

Nidalee is really good, but so are Vel'koz and Maokai. I've had S games with other really good champions when I performed a lot less amazing (but with more farm). As a long-time ARAM player, I've noticed the same trend too often where CS dictates grades more than anything else.

Reikken1 votes

This is why I don't give a damn about the mastery system and rankings. I don't even check my grade. Just let it go, and you'll feel much better.

SanKakU1 votes

Don't forget, you have to play far better than average to get the ess grade, and it depends on your champion. Obviously, Nidalees from other U.R.F. games did a better job at Nidalee than you. And only a small percentage of players of your allies' champions have done better than them.

Do you really think you're in the top percentiles of Nidalee players in U.R.F.? Being better than average isn't good enough if you want the best grades. I bet I could get 0 deaths as Nidalee in U.R.F. too...and I don't even own her. Not saying I'm great, but the K/D/A to support your argument may not be the best plan. If I were you, I'd check out some Nidalee replays or spectate some live games of some ess grade Nidalee action.

Dr Poro1 votes

I've seen 14/9/14 and 12/6/10 nidalees with S- and S in ARURF. They did get more farm, though.

I know how the grading works. I've played a ton of games in normals, ARAM and RGMs and I can tell you that in any role where you aren't the farmer, the system is highly screwed based on CS which isn't even your main goal.

The point is that it's near impossible to get S grades when your farm is really low. Even when you've contributed the most towards kills and turret kills. I've had many S games in this mode with other OP champs, but that's because I usually farm A LOT. Just this time I was in a lane with a waveclear champion and we didn't even get out of laning phase.

If you think that it's so easy to get this score with nidalee, then go ahead. I haven't even seen anyone winning a game with 0 deaths in the 21 games I've played so far (of which I had S- or higher in 8 games.)

Thanks for your advice on how to improve, but I already got to diamond without watching any streams and I rather play than watch since I have little time during the academic year. If you had spectated my game, I'm sure you too would've thought it to be S++ worthy just like all my teammates. I barely missed a single spear and I made plenty of kills in 2v4 and 1v3 situations hopping in and out and landing most of my spear spam, not to mention that I kept my Vel'koz alive who wasn't even trying to dodge.

SanKakU1 votes

I have to admit, both games I had the second highest CS on my team according to LoLReplay2, so you might have a point.

I still fail to see why someone as highly ranked as you wouldn't bother with Smite and the jungle in general. Nobody on your team even had Smite, lol. I could probably have beat you guys.

Also, how pathetic can you be? You've seen 2 Nidalees get esses already this weekend? Looks like bullshit, but let's pretend it's true. Then what's your problem? Anyone can throw a million spears at the enemies in ARURF and jump away at the slightest hint of danger. Unless you have replay proof of your game play, you've done nothing to support your argument but solidify that you weren't doing much for your team. I've seen stats farmers before and they always say the same crap. You try to insist on the high stats that you put out are more important than the stats and the blood and sweat the other Nidalees put out.

R181 votes

While yes, csing is way too important for grades (especially when off meta supporting) You really ended with not a lot of gold compared to your team. Those kills were on worthless targets and a waste of time.

Dr Poro1 votes

No, but I'm also the only one on our team that didn't give the opponent a lot of gold. Also, 2 members had less gold than me, just more CS and they received S.

aspects11 votes

i dont think cs matters that much in your grade, but i think its that nidalee in arurf has really high standards. the grade system is based of you compared to other people playing the same champion in the same role. chances are, the other nidalees will not have much better cs, but the same amount of kills. vlad is likely to have lower standards

Dr Poro1 votes

I've played hundreds of other games in ARAM and RGMs and I can tell you for a fact, that CS is incredibly important for grades. I've seen other nidalees getting S grades with scores like 14/9/14 (with more farm) so it's not really that nidalee is so OP that she can't ever die.

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