Taliyah's Passive: 'Out of Combat'

AutomobileV·Jan 29, 2017·85 votes·3,775 views

Why should Taliyah lose her passive movement speed near walls when she casts a spell, regardless of whether or not it makes contact with an enemy unit.

Even if this behaviour is intended, it is not consistent with other 'out-of combat' tooltips like Boots of Mobility that does maintain its passive while using mana to cast spells that have do not hit enemies. I'd appreciate it if I could get some more insight into this interaction.

In fact, this isn't even consistent within Taliyah's kit, either. She loses the passive movement when casting any of her Q, W, or E abilities, but not when she casts her R. I understand this may be due to the fact that R has no potential to deal damage, but I believe this is very unintuitive and needs more clarification

35 Comments

DanjengJan 29, 201712 votes

I think it would take a bit of work to add animations of Taliyah casting her spells while rock surfing. But the real question is... why would you need to cast damaging spells if you weren't in combat?

Edit: I don't play Taliyah, but I think the suggestions below about a drive-by would be so cool. Maybe if rock surf slowly fell off after casting an ability, rather than just going away instantly.

CowseedJan 29, 201711 votes

item 3070 Who know's _(ツ)_/¯

FaustavianJan 29, 201721 votes

You know, instead of facechecking a bush. Stealing a buff for those highlight reels drive-by poke.

AutomobileVJan 29, 20177 votes

I think it would promote interesting gameplay if you could be using Q through the river while roaming for a gank. It would get you there slightly faster, and also provide worked ground to speed you up on the way back to your lane. It would come at a cost though, because it might be a significant mana investment, and also it would make it harder to then fight in that river because you already worked up all of the ground.

EDIT: also, just to completely answer your post, I don't think they'd have to new animations. For example, recently they changed the mechanic that attacking wards triggers "in-combat", so that now it doesn't cancel Mobi boots. This is the one thing that stays consistent with Taliyah's passive. If you attack a ward while rock surfing, it doesn't cancel the passive, and you immediately hop back on the rock after your auto attack animation is complete.

rtbf76109271Jan 29, 20171 votes

Maybe you are out of combat but saw an enemy and simply missed your spell. Or are fleeing and zoning with your knockback or land mines. Either way it would be nice to still have her passive work. I didnt actually realize that it didnt but i agree that it's inconsistent

Votable JesterJan 29, 20171 votes

Her worked ground gives her some movespeed also, so she could cast Q for a little more speed.

BladeSingularityJan 29, 20171 votes

I already can imagine how cool it would look - Taliyah surfing while using spells...

The real question is if the animations could work.

zebulon02Jan 30, 20172 votes

One thing for sure about taliyah, is that her kit is focused around roaming.

However, I have to agree that spell cast cancelling her passive is very counter-intuitive. Especially when I use her w.

Let me explain myself. When I play taliyah, I like to use w to clear the last surviving minions of the wave and then I move right away to top or bot lane to gank. However, since the w explodes after 4 seconds. It cancels the passive again if it hits a minion. So if you make the math. it takes 9 seconds for her passive to kick in... By this time, I'm already at destination or almost. So the main purpose of her passive(which is roaming) becomes totally useless.

So I must agree with this post; a check-up on taliyah passive interaction would be nice, and I dont think it would push her over the line

Tickle Me CastroJan 30, 20177 votes

I would also like to point out that if you pick up the honey fruit it also cuts your passive as Taliyah, instead of slowing down it puts your passive on cd as if you were in combat. Just wanted answers to that as well, since no mana is used and no damage is taken, why would it take down your non combat passive.

NineTailedMysticJan 30, 20173 votes

Similar issue that Malzahar has/had where Honeyfruit would break his passive.

AutomobileVJan 30, 20172 votes

Actually I just tried this, and the honey fruit does not seem to break passive

General Esdeath Jan 30, 20173 votes

I'd imagine because of the animation itself

AutomobileVJan 30, 20172 votes

Nah, as I mentioned above: you can auto attack wards and plants without canceling the passive. It looks as if you get off the rock, but immediately after the auto attack finishes, the rock appears again and you maintain the movespeed.

General Esdeath Jan 30, 20171 votes

Isn't her AA animation her throwing a rock that shoots out of her? Compare it to Q, W, E, or R animation.

AutomobileVJan 30, 20172 votes

What I mean is, her AA animation also cancels the "rock surfing" animation. So it would be fine if the other animations worked in the same way.

General Esdeath Jan 30, 20171 votes

Spaghetti code

AkeneroJan 29, 20172 votes

Noticed this the other day, and realized just how stupid it is. In-combat should only count if you deal damage IMO. And even the ult dealing no damage is inconsistent, look at Diana, she is considered in combat with her e, even though it is only a knock-up, and no damage, like Taliyah ult.

Done25Jan 30, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Noticed this the other day, and realized just how stupid it is. In-combat should only count if you deal damage IMO. And even the ult dealing no damage is inconsistent, look at Diana, she is considered in combat with her e, even though it is only a knock-up, and no damage, like Taliyah ult.

Quite a few no damage spells have a hidden "1 true damage" to qualify them for assists.

PaffWasTakenJan 29, 20172 votes

I guess Rito was too lazy to make another animation for her spells while she is on her rock slide... Classic Rito

invisiblecat1Jan 29, 20171 votes

Although I do think Taliyah is perfectly fine the way she is with damage and utility, changing/buffing her passive should be a must since it is basically MF's old passive, but she loses it in combat

AutomobileVJan 29, 20171 votes

Pretty interesting comparison. I hadn't thought of that. In fact, one of the big reasons that MF support works so well at the moment is due to her in-combat movement speed steroid from her W in my opinion.

Supreme Senpai69Jan 29, 20171 votes

When Taliyah Qs she gains movement speed. She doesn't need those two boosts to stack

AutomobileVJan 29, 201714 votes

It isn't really a matter of whether or not it's needed. It's more a matter of consistency/clarification. Although I also disagree with you and think that enabling her to cast while maintaining her passive would likely not push her over the line as a champion.

SpecterVonBarenJan 29, 20171 votes

Better question would be why she even has that passive in the first place...

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 30, 20173 votes

A Rioter has explained in the r/TaliyahMains thread that the idea behind Taliyah's passive is too set up and position for her ultimate. It's not the best passive in the game, but it's relevant to her kit.

SpecterVonBarenJan 30, 20171 votes

A better choice would have been to integrate her Q passive into the rest of her kit by making it her innate passive (With modifications of course).

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 30, 20171 votes

Do you mean her worked ground?

SpecterVonBarenJan 30, 20171 votes

Yes.

MatakeJan 29, 20171 votes

So glad I unlocked Rek'Sai over Taliyah. From what I've heard Taliyah is Eve tier #1.

SettDownShutUpJan 30, 20171 votes

Not to mention Warmog's, which Soraka's entire game-kit is based around her regenning as she casts.

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 30, 20172 votes

I don't think Riot ever intended Soraka to build Warmogs tbh. To be fair Soraka's entire win-rate is dependent on how early the enemy ADC buys item 3123

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 30, 20171 votes

A Rioter has explained in the r/TaliyahMains thread that the idea behind Taliyah's passive is too set up and position for her ultimate. I'm not quite sure they want to encourage using it as part of her combo. Don't get me wrong the idea of a drive-by Q would be cool, but I'm not sure how useful it would even be?

AutomobileVJan 30, 20171 votes

I'm not advocating it be part of her combo. I think it's necessary that the passive gets canceled on dealing damage. For this reason, the 'drive-by Q' wouldn't really be relevant. I just want her to be able to maintain passive while using Q in the river to check bushes or to leave worked ground for the travel back to lane.

Crokinole AceJan 31, 20171 votes

I think Taliyah's passive needs to be changed and reworked in order to work with her 'in combat' kit.

For example:

Taliyah collects rocks from nearby walls which she uses on her next spell cast. Consuming rocks grants bonus move speed for x seconds and damage is x% of AP.

Something, anything that is not so useless as a tiny bit of move speed out of combat, near a wall on a passive that offers no damage at all. It feels nice but is really really meaningless.