New Fizz needs power redistributions and changes, not just flat-out buffs or nerfs.

Astôlfo··59 votes·2,785 views

His ult is what most people complain about.

The fish swims to a target if they were in the attachment radius instead of the direct hitbox. It used to be that the fish would just immediately stick to the target instead of swimming.

Either way feels like crap. It's inaccurate though to say that the skillshot 'missed and then hit anyways' because it still did hit accurately. You were only in the attachment hitbox instead of the direct hitbox.

A solution could be showing the two different size hitboxes surrounding the fishbait as it travels. People would still complain anyways most likely though, due to how large it is at a far distance.

If the hitbox is what people are complaining about, the intuitive solution would be to nerf it. Normally, that'd be fine. Except Fizz is garbage as fuck right now and his literal only redeeming factor is his bullshit ultimate. So if his ultimate hitbox or damage or something of the sort got nerfed (e.g, getting stuck in attachment reduces size of fish by some percent), then he'd need some power redistributed to the rest of his kit.

Right now, new Fizz has even less than old Fizz in versatility. Old Fizz W-Q'd for a kill, which wasn't really healthy either, but at least old Fizz HAD OTHER OPTIONS THAT STILL WORKED. New Fizz has absolutely nothing except spamming ultimate every time it's off cooldown. If it hits the carry, go in. If not, then wait and try again next time it's off cooldown.

27 Comments

Penns17 votes

I think I read on Reddit that they dont want a "shadow" or something like that to show the attachment radius while the bait is flying, idk if that opinion changed tho.

If anything, they will likely nerf his ult and buff his all in without it (https://i.gyazo.com/25883a73f8be696f3d77cfe8201819cb.png ), but I still think just reverting the rework and buffing him to make up for new support items, cotc, nerfs in 6.12,... would be a good idea. The rework probably caused more problems than it solved, same goes for the "clarity" change in 6.24.

Even tho my stats with him this season are https://i.gyazo.com/b73a72840f133588fc90e399bee2a037.png so far, he just feels bad to play most of the time. Youre forced to hit ult from like 1000 units away, so you probably need E to get in Q range. Then you maybe kill your 0 MR target and then... You... Zhonyas if you have it... and then E is still on ~5-2s cooldown... so you die. I thought assassins are champs that have a way of getting in and out of a fight?

Also, youre an assassin, yet "I would love to trap this Xin, but if he face checks me he will kill me since I only get a mid-low range ult and dont have enough damage"...

Blåbæret3 votes

{quoted}

I think I read on Reddit that they dont want a "shadow" or something like that to show the attachment radius while the bait is flying, idk if that opinion changed tho.

If anything, they will likely nerf his ult and buff his all in without it (https://i.gyazo.com/25883a73f8be696f3d77cfe8201819cb.png ), but I still think just reverting the rework and buffing him to make up for new support items, cotc, nerfs in 6.12,... would be a good idea. The rework probably caused more problems than it solved, same goes for the "clarity" change in 6.24.

Even tho my stats with him this season are https://i.gyazo.com/b73a72840f133588fc90e399bee2a037.png so far, he just feels bad to play most of the time. Youre forced to hit ult from like 1000 units away, so you probably need E to get in Q range. Then you maybe kill your 0 MR target and then... You... Zhonyas if you have it... and then E is still on ~5-2s cooldown... so you die. I thought assassins are champs that have a way of getting in and out of a fight?

Also, youre an assassin, yet "I would love to trap this Xin, but if he face checks me he will kill me since I only get a mid-low range ult and dont have enough damage"...

Lmao, reverting the rework AND BUFFING him? Are you high? Fizz was never in need of buffs, on the contrary.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

I thought assassins are champs that have a way of getting in and out of a fight?

Rito's definition of assassin is very confused to me. They don't want them to be killing carries quickly then getting out without dying to the team the carry is behind, since that would mean some stupid amounts of damage or invulns and would not be fun for the carry who got deleted and the team who was unable to do anything about it.

Assassin's have mostly always been about catching someone out of position and solo killing them. Like a duelist, except usually with a better gapcloser and less dps, so 'out of position' becomes a wider area and 'solo killing' becomes less reliable.

Kinky Fizz12 votes

Right now, new Fizz has even less than old Fizz in versatility. Old Fizz W-Q'd for a kill, which wasn't really healthy either, but at least old Fizz HAD OTHER OPTIONS THAT STILL WORKED. New Fizz has absolutely nothing except spamming ultimate every time it's off cooldown. If it hits the carry, go in. If not, then wait and try again next time it's off cooldown.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Invisus Deo12 votes

Okay, let's make some things clear. Q+W never one shotted people, just MAYBE if you was really really really fed. The old Fizz was ok, but the %health damage had to be remove. Idk why people even complain about the old one. I mean yeah the salty ADC which epxected to 1v1 an assassin , but in this meta... with so much power for supports... I don't see a problem. The concept of one shot.. Riot said "We don't champions that don't give a window for people to react." *cough *Kha, Rengar cough. The new Fizz is garbage. You either need to land a ult.. which is pretty hard in a TF. I know I know, the ult is bugged, agree. And the W.... god , this BS... you need 2 seconds to make damage. You know how much 2 s are in a TF? I think that the rework was garbage. They have 2 options.

  1. Revert the rework and buff something.
  2. Let the new rework Fizz become a 45 CDR% + TP monster which will go and ult bot over and over again. Build ROA+ Rylais + Trinity and see how Fizz will become a ULT machine. Salty? Yes. Am I right ? Yes #revertfizzrework
bbQsauçe11 votes

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KoKoboto3 votes

DFG days lol

Cosmic Warper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YB9RzB9u,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-12-27T20:31:02.153+0000)

The old fizz could kill a defenseless carry with WQ only if insanely fed, i don't know where this WQ instakill thing came from because it almost never happened.

Yeah the math never checks out. Fizz can't delete a carry that hard unless they have no extra MR and he's fed out of his mind with a gunblade or luden's with lich to supplement his base damage.

Flitchee1 votes

It did absurd damage, and when thunderlords came about, he could get a huge huge portion of damage with just wq and lichbane

bbQsauçe2 votes

[deleted]

Flitchee1 votes

which he was at that time after maybe 4 kills, and he could get that very ez, because he would just straight up 1 shot people if he hit his ult.

OyddAWqJ5r5 votes

That's easy. Reduce the W prep time to 1.5 from 2. It seems rather strange that it takes longer than Playful/Trickster's max invulnerability time.

Rockm Sockm4 votes

His trollpoll was the most complained about until this free ult came about.

Until fizz gets a massive cd on it equal to Vladimir, I don't want to hear it

Blåbæret2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rockm Sockm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YB9RzB9u,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-27T19:51:11.829+0000)

His trollpoll was the most complained about until this free ult came about.

Until fizz gets a massive cd on it equal to Vladimir, I don't want to hear it

This.

Pommel Knight3 votes

You are straight out stupid. You are comparing a dps tank mage to a mobility assasin.

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

I think that he will get a rework after some time, his kit is too strong/weak based on numbers and he is one of weakest laners in the game. (And it's funny when he kills the other laner when Fizz has 1/3 of his CS :D). Tank/AD Fizz was way better for his team than AP Fizz - who is hit or miss (the fish!!!)

WoonStruck2 votes

You take it out of R, he becomes like old Fizz where R is just a nice thing to have when its up.

You take it from his E, then E gets saved as an escape 100% of the time and sheen builds become far more powerful.

Take it out of W? Why are you taking it out of W?

Terchio2 votes

I'm not going to say that the Fizz rework worked, or that the old Fizz was balanced. I really don't know how to approach it to keep Fizz Fizz. However, I would simply say that WQ had questionably overkill power in his old form, to the point that WQ often got to the point of instagibbing squishies, moreso than most champions, all on a targeted skill. Now, it wasn't easy by any means, but item 3100 not only helped close the health gap on assassination like it does on everyone else, but it also amplified his % missing HP DoT, which altogether was a bit powerful for the lack of skill involved. Tag on an invuln, AoE, mobile/slowing powerbomb in E, plus the lack of cooldown on his % damage, and it makes complete sense that few people felt that fighting him was any shade of fair. And we haven't even started discussing that Shark that we're now all whining about because some other parts of his kit are back in line a bit, after the rework. To my knowledge, that thing's hitbox is as annoying as it's been since release.

Azteryz1 votes

they should just make it so that

if he misses the ult shark is still a baby shark size (point blank shark size)

but if it attaches WHILE FLYING then the size changes depending on range it basically does what riot wants which is reward accurate max range fish ults

especially since it being dodged shouldn't reward you for being accurate

Ionian Vulpix1 votes

I think Fizz needed the rework a lot more than Talon

blackfootedfox1 votes

maybe they can do something like what they did with Zac, where they don't really change the mechanics at all but give it much better visual telegraphing

Papa Slothy1 votes

I think his ult hitbox should be reduced in favor of a faster "fish mark"

coreychichi1 votes

I used to love fizz, he was the only assassin I was comfortable on. Idk about numbers or balance or anything like that but I do know how this new ult looks and that is clunky as all hell and not intuitive at all. Could you imagine a new player see this thing wiff past him land then magicaly fly back and stick to him. It looks ridiculous. I'm not a dev idk what the answer is but it sure as heck cant be this.

Wráthful1 votes

i still think this new w has very little counter play due to his high dmg for whatever reason and that fish that is rly hard to be missed.

Astôlfo2 votes

You could just move away out of his short range within that 2 seconds or stand behind your tanks.

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