@Riot: How does one define a duelist Champion?

darkdill·Oct 26, 2014·4 votes·928 views

What goes into making a Champion good at dueling? What are good strengths/weaknesses/etc.? What goes into a duelist's design process?

EDIT: Downvoted for asking a design question? Lol...

14 Comments

67chromeOct 26, 20143 votes

What goes into making a Champion good at dueling? What are good strengths/weaknesses/etc.?

The arena for determining duelists generally doesn't account for towers or minions, so it usually just means 2 champions thrown at each other somewhere in the jungle.

Marks of a duelist are:

Single target damage.
Low CD spells, powerful auto-attacks, and/or re-sets.
high mobility
low crowd-control
bursts of defense/sustain

Area-effect damage is almost always more well-suited to large-scale engagements than 1v1 fights.

Low CD/Rest/AA stuff lets a duelist constantly duel opponents and be victorious in a string of 1v1 fights rather than just being good once.

High mobility is super useful when you're by yourself, as it lets you completly negate a ranged advantage and forces self-peel to be used right away, where in a team-fight situation jumping on someone's face can be suicidal and dealt with by the peel of 5 members. Assassins = fun in Dominion, not so much in ARAM.

Low CC is mostly because of the trade-offs of CC. Generally speaking, high CC champions deal significantly less damage than low CC champions. Nidalee, Master Yi, and Katarina have no CC. Ashe, Nautilus, and Lissandra have a lot of CC. The former are well-known for doing tons of damage, the later are usually complained about as weak/underwhelming in terms of damage potential. Also - stunning someone for 1 second when you're buy yourself only gives you 1 extra second to act and takes away 1 second from your opponent, where stunning someone for 1 second in a team-fight means a collective 5 seconds you team gets to act on that (probably why CC and damage are often counter-balanced).

Bursts of defense just allow for the "I Win" button to be pressed, allowing 2~3 second windows where you get to unload a lot of damage and there isn't much an opponent can do against it. Also, defensive bursts allow mega-tank durability on otherwise damage-heavy builds, giving the best of both worlds. Bursts of sustain are also pretty handy for maintaining a solid level of health.

So, assassins and fighters tend to hit most of those marks. Making most of the best duelists assassins and fighters.

I'd say the last point is the most important though - a really powerful burst of defense or sustain. As such, Fiddlesticks and Swain, despite being high-CC, AoE, slow champions are still pretty solid in 1v1 situations.

But Jax (100% dodge), Fizz (untargetable), Tryndamere (can't die), Kayle (Invulnerable), Poppy (invulnerable and immune to CC) are probably the best duelists end-game due to their capacity to build a lot of damage and really push that advantage.

7ha7guy777Oct 26, 20143 votes

so the grand duelist isn't mentioned in a duelist thread. Fiora item 3070

KingsgraveOct 26, 20141 votes

Burst damage + becoming immune to damage for a time is hardly dueling someone.

7ha7guy777Oct 27, 20141 votes

so fiora would fall under a similar category as darius and trundle (as an anti-duelist) but in a different way. darius and trundle are anti-duelist off-tanks while fiora is an anti-duelist assassin. she wins "duels" not by actually dueling, but by simply not taking damage for a long enough time for her to kill her opponent post level 6. or at least that's what i take out of my experience playing as all 3 and your post about darius and trundle in this thread.

SalidfingersOct 26, 20142 votes

Don't confuse Nuker/Burst to Duelist/Fighter people

FantasySniperOct 26, 20141 votes

Anyone who can outlast another in a 1v1 fight.

Burst champions will lose if they don't 100-0 their enemy on the first try. Sustained-burst have it better, but they still lack certainty because they are reliant on CDs. DPS sustain-tanks are best suited for this purpose, so basically anyone with short cooldowns, strong AAs, sustain, and/or absolute resistances.

Warwick Nasus Kayle MasterYi Aatrox Tryndamere are all among the best duelists because they have the best kits suited for this purpose.

Marksman in general come in close, but they are very vulnerable and require safety to function in such a way, which is often hard to provide for themselves.

EvilRabbittOct 26, 20142 votes

Nasus is duelist because 100 stacks every 5-10 minutes (depending on period of game, if its teamfight it ofc goes fast) is strong.

darkdillOct 26, 20141 votes

I see.

Now, here's a concept I'm wanting to make: a duelist who excels at forcing duels and getting her opponents to essentially kill themselves fighting her. No sustain, but you get a shield that is accompanied by a PbAOE burst that lowers enemy AD for a short time.

Essentially, a duelist meant to kill other duelists.

FantasySniperOct 26, 20142 votes

Sounds like Poppy

darkdillOct 26, 20141 votes

Not quite as toxic. My Champion can't stop enemies from intervening, but if she wants to, you cannot stop fighting her short of Cleanse or QSS.

KingsgraveOct 26, 20141 votes

Darius pretty much disables most duelists. He destroys Nasus, Warwick, Yi, Aatrox, Trynd etc., even beyond laning phase. A good Darius can also destroy a Kayle in lane, but you mostly have to play it perfectly.

Honestly, a duelist should allow room for you to be able to duel them back. The only way they could make a character that beats a Duelist was to make something like Darius where he just destroys your AS and MS, while also doing burst + dot damage to you. Another good example of an Anti-Duelist is Trundle

Honestly, Nasus is barely a duelist. He mostly does the same things Darius and Trundle do: Disable your ability to fight back.

Meep ManOct 26, 20141 votes

Large Sustain
Sustained Damage
Decent Mobility
Low Cool Down Crowd Control

Examples: Jax Tryndamere Olaf Poppy MasterYi Volibear Warwick Rengar Kayle Aatrox

DunderflumpOct 27, 20141 votes

Champions who win all sustained battles are duelists. You don't fight Jax by having a slap fight with him unless you want to die.

Kuroi86Oct 27, 20141 votes

A duelist is incredibly powerful in 1v1 fights. Typically through some combination of burst damage, sustained damage and sustainability through life steal or another passive form. They get on you, stick to you, and pummel you into the ground until you burn your escapes or get back up to bring them down.