What people don't get about tanks in League...or gaming in general

chipndip1··84 votes·8,391 views

Without getting too preachy, so I can get straight to the point: Just because you're tanky, doesn't mean you do no damage.

Yeah, in many MMOs, the tank class usually has very low damage output, but the damage output of tank classes in games varies depending on the game. For example, in Etrian Odyssey, a franchise I love to fucking bits, it's a turn-based game where the tank class characters don't just do "very little damage". In most instances, outside of the latest entry, they almost always did literally 0 damage in fights. Like legit 0. None. Nada. You didn't even use them to attack in most cases. ALL they did was just shield and nullify enemy attacks. Meanwhile, in a game like Pokemon, a turn-based game we all know, some tanky picks are like Clefable, where they don't fight that hard, and others are like Snorlax or Mudsdale, who provide a way stronger offensive threat. Hell, in Bravely Default, nearly any class had the tools to push their damage to the damage cap with the right setup, which included the tank classes, although the dps-oriented classes could achieve this easier.

The point to be made here is that how much damage a tank deals in any game that utilizes the concept of "classes" is based on that game itself, not some "general rule of thumb that tanks should never hurt you". Laning still exists. The fact that you, as a squishy carry, didn't build any defenses while someone's bopping you with skills that are steadily getting stronger with game length while they rank those skills up is still a thing. It's not like the damage of tanks scales THAT well into the late game, save Cho'Gath. It's not like tanks like Poppy are always going to paste you onto a wall and beat your face in. However, you should respect the fact that, hey, ultimately, tanks in this game don't just buff defenses and stand in front of incoming attacks. They also fight. They also deal damage. If you don't respect them, and they're playing their cards right, yeah, they're gonna end up killing you, just like how you were going to kill them.

I keep seeing all this "tanks do too much damage" nonsense...and it's nonsense. Legit nonsense.

169 Comments

Krigjer44 votes

Games with tanks intended to and are actually capable of taunting and keeping the aggro shouldn't do damage. Their job is to take the damage while allies do the damage. (most mmos)

Games where aggro isn't a concept, tanks can do damage.

Done2527 votes

{quoted}

Games with tanks intended to and are actually capable of taunting and keeping the aggro shouldn't do damage. Their job is to take the damage while allies do the damage. (most mmos)

Games where aggro isn't a concept, tanks can do damage.

I would argue that doing damage is how they generate aggro in LoL. No one cares about the 10 dps Braum. Everyone cares about the 1k R Cho'Gath.

6thSagePath4 votes

{quoted}

I would argue that doing damage is how they generate aggro in LoL. No one cares about the 10 dps Braum. Everyone cares about the 1k R Cho'Gath.

that be miss leading. if you let braum go you get the CC chain and youre done. you have to go through or around tanks effectively. you never ignore any champ you play around them. but you cant do that when you have a cho that CC you to death or garens just spinning everywhere and youre stuck taking copious amounts of true damage from a tank that is taking none

Done252 votes

{quoted}

that be miss leading. if you let braum go you get the CC chain and youre done. you have to go through or around tanks effectively. you never ignore any champ you play around them. but you cant do that when you have a cho that CC you to death or garens just spinning everywhere and youre stuck taking copious amounts of true damage from a tank that is taking none

Correction, let Braum Chain CC while being attacked by someone else and you're done. Braum couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag on his own.

Tomoe Gozen4 votes

The point is that in League, that design wouldn't do tanks justice at all. No one wants to feel like they're contributing nothing to a fight, except a "talk shit and get hit" strategy. Because we have many tanks in LoL and if every tank had a taunt, well there wouldn't be any distinctions between them except who's a bigger ball of stats.

Every champion in League needs to be a unique addition for the roster in general. This is what makes the game fun. Having many combinations of champions that do things and every game feels different to play against a certain group of opponents.

Hibeki1 votes

If you think damage is the only way you contribute to a fight then you dont have a very good understanding of this game.

My favorite characters to play in this game are persistent threats, and that used to be bruisers. Now I was forced out of them into juggernauts.

even in games like overwatch, Reinhardt and the like are my favorite because I know without me my teammates couldnt do their job effectively.

So once again, its fine to not get satisfaction out of not doing damage, but saying that only damage is contributing is another.

you know why old maokai was busted? 20% damage padding in aoe on his ult plus locket provided a significant damage reduction for his team while he kept a target in place as a jungler. He didn't have the crazy damage and cooldowns he did now.

Tomoe Gozen2 votes

I don't think you understand this game in general, if you believe that anyone wants to be a meat shield. That kind of playstyle doesn't suit any game, let alone a MOBA like LoL. Furthermore, i never said that dealing damage is "end-all-be-all" for champions, i said that you can't have a tank deal 0 damage and still feel good because then you'd have to compensate for a shit ton of defensive stats, buffs or CC in the kit, which makes a champion inherently unpeelable from the target. Or have some sort of godly sustain that no matter how many noodles you fight, you'll outlast everyone and always come out on top

Why do you think that holistically, Zed, Yasuo, Riven, Zoe, Kat, etc... are always the most played champions and also, the most frustrating to play against? Because you need skill to play them and play against them, to be wary of their damage at all times as they can kill you but equally, get shat on if they make a mistake.

That's the reason why someone like Malphite isn't at all a popular pick. Because he would've been if he was broken and impossible to shake off, deal damage or just stick to you once he's started and get his team an all-pass for your ass.

Hibeki1 votes

Once again, thers a difference between being a meat shield and servicing your teams in ways that aren't damage.

Also the champions you listed are super popular because they

A) Lack proper counterplay and resources to manage B) Super overstatted C) Allow playmaking but have many options of bailing themselves out if they fucked up.

Literally all the champions you listed are just poorly designed.

Malphite isn't a popular pick because his kit is super outdated and stale. When actually looking at his teamfight capabilities though he is very strong. When people first discovered comet on him he actually became a very popular top laner.

Tomoe Gozen2 votes

Literally all the champions you listed are just poorly designed.

This is a 100% subjective statement on your part and as such, has no place in this argument. I don't care if someone says that Zoe doesn't have a place in League because of her kit, there's always going to a complainer to any kind of a new champion. Because that which the new champion embodies now, didn't exist before and therefore - you need to find ways to fight against it before you speak out against the design. The thing is many people just want an easy way out and complain about it to Riot because they think if they gape their mouths wide and start making weird noises, Riot'll make the changes they wanted.

And that's not how designing new things for League works nor how balance is being done. The champions can be overtuned sure but they wouldn't get past months of designing and playtesting it internally many, many times if Riot wasn't confident in what they're putting out. Azir went through 3 years of this back and forth iceboxing and reviving because Riot didn't have a solid kit they wanted on him. And that doesn't mean he was actively being worked on for the whole 3 years.

Malphite isn't a popular pick because his kit is super outdated and stale. When actually looking at his teamfight capabilities though he is very strong. When people first discovered comet on him he actually became a very popular top laner.

It is one of the reasons for his unpopularity, yes. But Malphite or Comet was nerfed because he turned into a lane bully when people switched to it, due to how easy it was to proc it on him. Same deal as DFT being nerfed for DoT champions, where Brand got the short end of the stick.

The Whamboozler34 votes

What stupid people don't get is... tanks NEED to do damage. It's just how much damage that's the issue.

People will tell you outright that tanks should not be able to kill ADC's... which is freaking absurd. Tanks are initiators and usually pretty CC heavy by default. ADC's have some of the most paper-thin defenses in the game. Are you implying that they should be SO weak that they cannot even hurt the class that builds no (or next to no) defenses? May as well make em all do 0 damage then. Or perhaps you're saying they shouldn't have such good dive potential and lockdown to sit on an adc while they kill him? Well now they're unable to peel or start fights. Also by taking away a tank's damage they lose the ability to lane at all, and they lose a lot of their abilities to freaking tank!

Why is that you say? Well if Malphite or Leona do 0 damage, there isn't EVER a reason to attack them. EVER. But drawing focus and eating enemy spells and attacks for their team is one of their jobs, you say? Well why would ANYONE focus a Maokai who lacks the damage to kill the squishiest person in the game even if you leave him alone? You wouldn't. He needs to be enough of a threat that he can force the enemy team to toss their spells on him. If he's ahead, this is literally him TANKING. You know... his job. He gets so burly that he can dive in and you kinda have to focus him, even though that is a TERRIBLE idea. This isn't an MMO with an aggro mechanic. Players will focus the guy hurting them. For tanks to draw "player aggro", they need to put out some hurt, even if it's only when they're ahead.

Finding the balance of how much tanks should do before they're a bit too good is hard... but anyone who says "tanks don't need to do damage" fundamentally lacks understanding on the very basics of the game and how it works.

Kanzler11 votes

You almost got it.

People are saying that they shouldn't do both at the same time. You knowhow everyone complains about adc damage? Tanks burst you slightly slower, but you're cc locked for 5 seconds so you cant do anything anyway.

I'm fine with the initiation and cc, but not losing all my health during that. Tanks should need someone else to contribute damage

chipndip13 votes

{quoted}

You almost got it.

People are saying that they shouldn't do both at the same time. You knowhow everyone complains about adc damage? Tanks burst you slightly slower, but you're cc locked for 5 seconds so you cant do anything anyway.

I'm fine with the initiation and cc, but not losing all my health during that. Tanks should need someone else to contribute damage

You won't lose all your health in one engage unless there is someone else there or it's a drawn out engage. Otherwise, you didn't have all your health to begin with.

Kanzler3 votes

Except you do. That is precisely the problem

chipndip16 votes

{quoted}

Except you do. That is precisely the problem

What tank can do a clean 100 to 0 in a burst rotation that isn't a late game Cho'Gath?

Because you're wrong the minute you try to answer, although early game Leona with Ignite used to be a viable option...

6thSagePath2 votes

have you not played against a Garen? as an adc main theres no reason i should be taking 1.2k true damage from a dang tank. late game thats 80% of my health in the matter of one button pressed. there are a few champs who are to over powered with little to no nics in their armor.

SpaghettiVase17 votes

NOT A TANK.

Dreadlocke1016 votes

{quoted}

have you not played against a Garen? as an adc main theres no reason i should be taking 1.2k true damage from a dang tank. late game thats 80% of my health in the matter of one button pressed. there are a few champs who are to over powered with little to no nics in their armor.

In what universe has Garen ever been a tank in season 8...?

Kanzler4 votes

Gnar. You're old and grey by the time his CC is done. Most often, you're dead though.

chipndip15 votes

{quoted}

Gnar. You're old and grey by the time his CC is done. Most often, you're dead though.

That, too, falls off, but he's a strong example. I respect it. +1.

Mega Gnar IS a special case, but +1 anyway.

Syrdon4 votes

Well, thing is, tanks don't need to do damage. Braum is a perfect example (also Leona, Mao and a lot more).

A tank without damage isn't worthless at all, he can engage, CC, peel and soak damage. "But... You don't kill with CC !!". No, indeed, Braum won't kill with his CC. That's why you have damage dealers.

As a matter of fact, most "tanks that deal damage" aren't even considered "tanks". They're either juggernaut, fighters or bruisers.

MorganFreemanBot4 votes

{quoted}

Well, thing is, tanks don't need to do damage. Braum is a perfect example (also Leona, Mao and a lot more).

A tank without damage isn't worthless at all, he can engage, CC, peel and soak damage. "But... You don't kill with CC !!". No, indeed, Braum won't kill with his CC. That's why you have damage dealers.

As a matter of fact, most "tanks that deal damage" aren't even considered "tanks". They're either juggernaut, fighters or bruisers.

This is only true if you believe tanks should ONLY be viable as supports. Ignoring the obvious issues, like trying to tell EVERY SINGLE PLAYER WHO ENJOYS PLAYING TANKS that they should play bitch to the ADC all game, this becomes problematic because it leads to one of two things.

Either tanks are insanely gold efficient, due to supports having reduced income and not being able to itemize purely for themselves, which results in them crushing solo lanes and the jungle by virtue of how hard they scale / how insanely tough they are with nominal gold and level input.

Tanks are completely non-functional. They lack the base stats and functionality to operate in any role other than support, and in support they are starved the gigantic amounts of gold and xp they need to actually tank. Tanks are no longer tanks, instead they are speed bumps. Their usefulness ends beyond the laning phase, after which they become little more than suicidal meat shields which throw themselves at the enemy damage dealers, hoping to provide some sort of small speed-bump to buy time for their own damage dealers to do something.

Tanks being fully realized and fully functional champions is fine. There are absolutely no problems with tanks having agency and applying real kill pressure.

Syrdon2 votes

{quoted}

This is only true if you believe tanks should ONLY be viable as supports. .

??

Shen ? Mao ? Naut ? Ornn ? Sej ?

And as much as I disagree with Riot's way to handle "supports" tanks ARE a support units by nature. Maybe we don't have the same definition of a "tank", but to me bruisers and juggernauts aren't tanks. Tanks are cc machines with high engage and staying power. They NEED low damage. If you give them ADC / mages / divers lvl of damage, what's the point of ADC / mages / divers then ?

MorganFreemanBot7 votes

{quoted}

??

Shen ? Mao ? Naut ? Ornn ? Sej ?

And as much as I disagree with Riot's way to handle "supports" tanks ARE a support units by nature. Maybe we don't have the same definition of a "tank", but to me bruisers and juggernauts aren't tanks. Tanks are cc machines with high engage and staying power. They NEED low damage. If you give them ADC / mages / divers lvl of damage, what's the point of ADC / mages / divers then ?

Tanks do NOT have adc / mage / diver levels of damage late game.

Of those three, the closest they approach damage wise is divers.. Which is fine, because of those three divers are those who most closely approach tank levels of durability.

What tanks do have is roughly even levels of damage early game. In some cases this evens out to a little more, in some cases it evens out to a little less.

And you know what? That's absolutely fine. In fact, in a game like league, tanks who are not designed exclusively as supports need to be able to function as more than supports. This means they need to be able to clear the jungle, CS, and be able to lane; to do those things they need to have damage.

Tanks, as they exist in league right now, are mostly fine. They have about as much damage early game as everyone else, but they're also not IMMENSELY tougher than others early game. As the game progresses their damage - which is almost entirely base ability damage - drops off quickly as the game progresses.

To phrase that differently: The classes you're citing have baseline 'toughness' of varying levels which doesn't scale well with defenses; they don't have the tools to truly capitalize on defensive buys. However the damage portions of their kits do scale very well and allows their damage to ramp up dramatically. Tanks are the opposite; they have a baseline damage, but beyond that they don't scale very well with damage. Their toughness, however, is multi-layered and makes defensive buys they make particularly potent.

HarrowR2 votes

Yes tanks should deal damage but if your tank can blow up an enemy ADC,why even bother with any other class in the game,the meta would be 4 tanks and Soraka,cause if Tanks can blow up a squishy,then there would be no point in having mages,assassins,adcs or fighters,since all of them are less tanky than tanks and the team that had squishies and not tanks would lose 100% of the time,cause the damage output would be similar,but not the tankiness.

Done252 votes

{quoted}

Yes tanks should deal damage but if your tank can blow up an enemy ADC,why even bother with any other class in the game,the meta would be 4 tanks and Soraka,cause if Tanks can blow up a squishy,then there would be no point in having mages,assassins,adcs or fighters,since all of them are less tanky than tanks and the team that had squishies and not tanks would lose 100% of the time,cause the damage output would be similar,but not the tankiness.

Because tanks can't kill towers for crap. That's why Demolish was made.

The Whamboozler2 votes

Tanks also can't really 100-0 you alone without help. I'm getting tired of the term "one-shot" being used so casually. Kha'zix killing you with a single Q is a one-shot. Malphite diving into you with his ult, slapping you with an auto, ground pounding, Qing you, then autoing you AGAIN isn't a one-shot. That's a whole god-damned rotation of his abilities and attacks.

And if you have ANY defenses built at all and are at full health, it likely won't kill you. Unless of course, the tank is massively ahead himself. But I STILL do not see a problem with people being able to kill the most fragile class of champs in the game quickly. That seems fair to me.... they are the MOST FRAGILE CHAMPS IN THE GAME!

Light Burner2 votes

False. Enuff said. I can see you have no idea about priority targets in this game.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Why is that you say? Well if Malphite or Leona do 0 damage, there isn't EVER a reason to attack them. EVER.

even in low elo it wouldnt be true.

Well why would ANYONE focus a Maokai who lacks the damage to kill the squishiest person in the game even if you leave him alone? You wouldn't.

bad exemple... but even without any damage, if u let maokai toy with ur adc, this adc won't be able to apply his damages.

So again its bullshit, u don't need damage to be useful.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Are you high?

Ok... let's say Maokai now does 0 damage to champions. We'll let him hurt minions and monsters and stuff cause he's gotta farm, but whatever. How well do you think that man's lane is gonna go? How do you think he'll make it to teamfights without being INSANELY behind? How much do you think he'll matter in said teamfights when all he's adding to the fight is his CC? Why would you bother bringing a CC machine to the fight when there are ample champs who have CC AND bring something else to the table. For christ's sake, even PANTHEON has a stun. A lot of mages and suports do as well. Are you honestly telling me Leona would be worth picking EVER if she had no damage? How would she and her adc ever win lane? How would they even keep up... she's not exactly built for passive farming. Why would you EVER pick her over Blitz or Thresh... two non-tanks by most reckoning... but who have a pile of CC and actually hurt things.

You are correct sir, that you don't need damage to be useful. But you do need SOMETHING other than CC. CC only helps against champions... which ironically, you cannot kill without damage. This means you need a teammate with you to do the ONLY thing you are any good at. Tanks cannot usually splitpush. Waveclear. Siege towers. Or contest objectives. They are crap at all of these things because they lack damage. All CC let's them do is hold down a champ for a bit. Nevermind that this Ezreal you CC'ed will just kill you AFTER the CC is through if you can't hurt him during the month he's locked down. Or unless you have help. But then, he'll have help too, won't he? So you dive into Ez as Mokai or Leona... and his support Brand blows your adc the fuck up when he comes in to help you. Now you're dead 2v1. Oh, Brand COULD have targeted you instead of your adc... but since you weren't doing ANY damage at all, he wisely chose to target the one who could actually win the fight, confident that you would be a non-factor once he was dead. He would be right.

If you claim to know anything about this game, you should know that targeting the tanky champs is almost ALWAYS the wrong move... and it should only be done when it cannot be helped, or when you are forced to. The fact that you might die to a tank if you ignore him forces you to deal with them. The fact that they hold you down with stuns does not. It can be very useful, and can win fights... but go watch a bunch of matches involving Leona and Maokai... and see how often people drop all their big cooldowns on Leona. I assure you, Maokai eats them FAR more often... and why? Because he's a threat. Leona has arguably more CC than him, but she's a support and does VERY little damage. Having some damage makes tanks better able to do their jobs!

It's just a matter of how MUCH damage they have. Killing a squishy ADC who is caught alone and misplays the fight? Fine. He's got no defenses at all, everyone SHOULD be able to kill him if he isn't smart. Killing a bruiser that isn't behind? Eh... probably not unless the tank is REALLY ahead. Killing a fed bruiser or fellow tank? Shouldn't really happen.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Ok... let's say Maokai now does 0 damage to champions. We'll let him hurt minions and monsters and stuff cause he's gotta farm, but whatever. How well do you think that man's lane is gonna go?

Even without damages, maokai will still sustain as hell and bring cc. So his jungle can easly gank his lane. Having a Maokai top, mean u just have to come to take free kills.

? How do you think he'll make it to teamfights without being INSANELY behind?

He's a tank. tanks are the class who dosn't really care to be behind.

How much do you think he'll matter in said teamfights when all he's adding to the fight is his CC?

CC is all he bring u say ? don't say this like its nothing.

Why would you bother bringing a CC machine to the fight when there are ample champs who have CC AND bring something else to the table.

Maybe cause they're durable (not squishy).

For christ's sake, even PANTHEON has a stun.

Irrevelent, Pantheon's garbage after laning phase.

Are you honestly telling me Leona would be worth picking EVER if she had no damage? How would she and her adc ever win lane? How would they even keep up...

maybe relying on his adc... its a 2v2 lane.

Why would you EVER pick her over Blitz or Thresh... two non-tanks by most reckoning... but who have a pile of CC and actually hurt things.

Thresh is a tanks, and blitz is close of. Even without damage Thresh kit is complet enough to let him revelent without damage (engage, disengage...).

You are correct sir, that you don't need damage to be useful. But you do need SOMETHING other than CC.

Funny cause Tanks don't only cc. Actually they also TANK. Rakan is a cc machine (isn't a tank tho).

This means you need a teammate with you to do the ONLY thing you are any good at.

and ??? its their role. ITs not their role to kill other to begin, nor win the lane. The goal of tanks is to "support" ur team.

Tanks cannot usually splitpush. Waveclear.

They can both. with their itemisation, runes and their stupid stat.

Siege towers. Or contest objectives.

And ?? its not their role.

Nevermind that this Ezreal you CC'ed will just kill you AFTER the CC is through if you can't hurt him during the month he's locked down.

When u take a tanks its not for win ur lane nor damages. In this case when u cc Ez, even with mao current damage u won't kill him before his next blink. u need ur mates (legitly).

So you dive into Ez as Mokai or Leona... and his support Brand blows your adc the fuck up when he comes in to help you. Now you're dead 2v1.

wtf is this scenario ??? to begin why dive, its no ur job. And then the mistake is on both of u : u take choose to dive in the worst moment without taking mates & ennemy positions, and u mate getting caugh is his mistake (due to ur engage).

If you claim to know anything about this game, you should know that targeting the tanky champs is almost ALWAYS the wrong move...

its not. Most of time adc cant go past frontline, and are forced to kill the tank (depending of his positionning). feel free to look at lck or alike.

and it should only be done when it cannot be helped, or when you are forced to.

And thats what happen in most case. Ofc i speak about decent elo. so it would in most case.

The fact that they hold you down with stuns does not.

nice joke. If u late him lock u down, assasins/divers will just end u cause u'll be defensless. Thats why u can often see assassins going for Lulu or Janna despite them no doing any damage (they bring alot, but deal no damage alone).

Having some damage makes tanks better able to do their jobs!

NO !!!! It make them do more than their job. And thats why most toplaners (unless tanks mains) hate deal with tanks.

It's just a matter of how MUCH damage they have.

no offense.... but u really have a low elo mindset.

The Whamboozler2 votes

No offense, but english is CLEARLY not your first language. That or you write at around a 7th grade level, man. Most of your counter-points are basically just poorly written versions "No, cause I said so". and your sign off of the typical "arrogant dickbag rankshaming" is the cherry on top of the shit sundae. It's always the go-to tactic of opinionated idiots that want to sound like they've made a good point to toss in some childish barb about "oh man, you must just be bad" or "at least, if you weren't so bronze" or what have you. It's the most transparent attempt to act more correct, important or informed than you are without actually making a credible point. How about you let your arguments speak for themselves instead of making personal attacks like you're running for office, eh?

My point was this... EVERYONE. IN THIS GAME. NEEDS DAMAGE. 0 damage is NOT an option for anyone. Champions need to farm. To lane. To fight. People who cry "Tanks shouldn't do damage" are wrong... outright fucking wrong. It's not as if they can sit in a safe space for 20 minutes with the enemy not trying to kill them until teamfights happen and then walk around being CC machines to support their carries. Maokai needs to survive lane against that really aggressive enemy top laner who is trying to kill him... or he needs to clear his jungle without getting invaded and killed over and over again.

What I hear from you, is that you feel that tanks should be 0 damage supports, chained to their carries for the entire game, unable to accomplish ANYTHING on their own and only good for their lockdown. Now... there ARE a few champions who are close to that. Leona is the first who springs to mind. Oh no, wait... Leona is a very aggressive champion with a decent amount of damage early on. In fact, her passive does nothing but damage. It's as if Riot realized that having 3 stuns and a slow but not actually KILLING isn't as useful as you think. A tanky beast with a mountain of CC and absolutely NO damage would be pigshit terrible and no one would play them... and NOT just because they're boring. That's the OTHER problem with the no-damage "we can only support people" tank idea... It's boring as fuck and hardly ANYONE would play these 0 damage tanks you want to make.

The game already has several tanks that are 110% devoted to babysitting their carries and can't really do ANYTHING on their own. Braum, Taric and Leona. Notice how they're all supports. Notice how they all have some kind of damage buff built into their passives too. Because CC alone does not win a fight, and in ANY 2v2 in bot lane, it's usually a safer bet that the team with two damage sources will beat the team with only one. We won't even DISCUSS how you'd expect these no damage champs you want made to solo lane when they do less damage than an underfed Soraka...

Now... are you going to explain how you expect a champion can work without damage, or are you just gonna say "because I said they would" then make some passive-aggressive comment about rank and pretend that's the same as having a point or making sense?

TheSummonerDoom17 votes

I feel like people like Braum fit in the true tank category. He just blocks everything and slows people. Never tries to hurt enemies just defend against them. I also feel like Alistar fits in the just cc and tank category as well.

Erockandroll4 votes

{quoted}

I feel like people like Braum fit in the true tank category. He just blocks everything and slows people. Never tries to hurt enemies just defend against them. I also feel like Alistar fits in the just cc and tank category as well.

Funny thing about this is, both champs you just listed are played in the support role.

Realistically speaking in LOL, Tanks need some base level of damage just to be effective anywhere besides the support role. Even if you could shrug off most of your opponents damage, you can really lane against an opponent if you can't keep up with your opponent's ability to wave clear. Similar problem for Jungle tanks, they need clear speeds comparable to their counterparts, otherwise, they will get out leveled.

So to maintain the mentality of "Tanks should do no damage" is basically relegating Tanks to the support role. And as a Support main, I hate that. Because it means a) everyone looks to me to play the team's tank, b) Any support that isn't a Tank is closed to me and c) Ultimately, the gold disparity on supports makes it difficult to itemize as a proper tank. In the case of Braum and Alistar, they cheat this, because they rely on their abilities for tankyness, more so than itemization. And that's just what makes them good supports.

Solicitude13 votes

You forget something. Aside from Rammus and Galio (who mostly will build some ap these days) no other tank in league has taunt. So, if they all had 0 damage, they would be completely useless. If someone who posses no threat of damage stands in front of you, you can simply ignore them, so people would just ignore them completely and go for their back line. The damage they have, albeit low compared to a dps, is enough for someone to consider them a threat and turn on them when they have no access to the enemy back line. Also, someone with absolutely 0 damage has no means of defending himself in a 1vs1. Every time an enemy would appear in front of them, their only chance would be to run away.

People who cry about tanks doing "tons of damage" simply cant understand some things and i say that as a player who can play every role to a decent level, but also loves tanks. A tank wont kill you because he can deal "tons of damage". He will kill you because you deal zero damage to them. If there is an ADC like Varus without penetration against a tank like Poppy with 350 armor and an item 3025 , the ADC will barely scratch her, especially considering the HP pool of the tank. But the ADC has zero defenses, thus Poppy needs no penetration, whatever damage she will do will be mitigated very little, and with the low HP pool of Varus, even low damage will hurt. Poppy wont think twice before jumping on him.

Jinx Hunter2 votes

{quoted}

You forget something. Aside from Rammus and Galio (who mostly will build some ap these days) no other tank in league has taunt. So, if they all had 0 damage, they would be completely useless. If someone who posses no threat of damage stands in front of you, you can simply ignore them, so people would just ignore them completely and go for their back line. The damage they have, albeit low compared to a dps, is enough for someone to consider them a threat and turn on them when they have no access to the enemy back line. Also, someone with absolutely 0 damage has no means of defending himself in a 1vs1. Every time an enemy would appear in front of them, their only chance would be to run away.

People who cry about tanks doing "tons of damage" simply cant understand some things and i say that as a player who can play every role to a decent level, but also loves tanks. A tank wont kill you because he can deal "tons of damage". He will kill you because you deal zero damage to them. If there is an ADC like Varus without penetration against a tank like Poppy with 350 armor and an item 3025 , the ADC will barely scratch her, especially considering the HP pool of the tank. But the ADC has zero defenses, thus Poppy needs no penetration, whatever damage she will do will be mitigated very little, and with the low HP pool of Varus, even low damage will hurt. Poppy wont think twice before jumping on him.

Just saying if you let the poppy get to your ADC. then you deserve to lose. A better example would be: Malphite Rammus Maokai Amumu Chogath Gnar Singed

Solicitude4 votes

I was mostly talking about a 1vs1, since it makes it better to understand why a tank can kill a squishy. In a team-fight things are slightly different since the tank will be getting damage from other champions as well, probably no one will get easily in the back line and a tank will most probably activate item 3193 as soon as he is in, which will further reduce his damage.

INoble KnightI3 votes

Singed isn't a tank. He's kinda an AP Bruiser (Even though I hate that damn term). He builds about 2 damage items before going full tank. Hell that sounds almost like a juggernaut.

Teriyaki Bukkake6 votes

Shen

And A Real Hiero9 votes

Guild Wars 1 had it pretty good in that regard. If you went full tank you would die super slow, but have no impact in pvp. If you took a mix of tank and dps skills you had good pressure while still being hard to kill. You just didn't have the capability to burst, but you would score kills if ignored.

Player3Th0mas4 votes

You mean....

A bruiser?

bbQsauçe6 votes

[deleted]

chipndip15 votes

{quoted}

Riot did the tank class update exactly for that reason, tanks should do less damage but be tankier and with more CC. Except they do the same damage as before but are tankier as fuck.

Maokai got less tanky with his update, but got stronger healing, since his ult is different. The tank update wasn't about making tanks tankier. It was about spreading out tank cc patterns to give more presence throughout a fight instead of just dumping everything into the first second or two of it, then tooling defensive itemization to be more specific to situations rather than generalized Spirit Visage purchases every game.

ModCaptainMårvelous6 votes

I think the bigger issue is how people associate tanking with a gameplay style.

When people see tanks, they think of the MMO or traditional RPG tank: A massive, slow bruiser who forces people to attack by virtue of being the big man or woman on campus. Taunts, aggro, etc. People seem to like the idea of drawing aggro but you can't just force people to attack you unless you're Shen or Rammus, so you have to put aggro in other places. This type of tank mindset doesn't work in League or DOTA because you can't just draw aggro by existing. You need to do respectable damage or be the one to start fights.

If more DPS, more CC, etc. is the right path to "draw aggro" though is anyones guess.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Thinking u need damages to be useful/not be ignored is really a low elo sight.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Good thing I also pointed out other ways such as CC. But if we wanna go further into this idea:

  • Frequent buffs/debuffs (Kill the healer for example)
  • CC (as said)
  • Utility (Killing the jungler or cho before he feasts baron for example)
  • Killing someone via actives.

Of course, you do need to do damage to be useful. This is true of any PvP game. The question is how much.

sarii fox5 votes

I understand this concept and I can agree. I'm fine with tanks dishing out some damage. But when tanks get completely out of hand and literally do as much damage as carries late game, I have a problem. Tanks seem ok right now, some do a too much imo but generally speaking you can play around them if you and your team are smart.

Modl Ryden l4 votes

Tanks have relatively high base damage since many bruisers/juggernauts/tanks have damaging abilities that scale off their defensive bonuses such as armor, magic resist, and more popularly HP.

Now the problem arises of Tanks dealing 'too much damage' is that because of their damage abilities that scale with defensive stats they create what I like to call: a stat difference split.

Meaning that if an ADC was against a tank who built item 3742 item 3075 item 3143, they will have a hard time trading damage outputs because one has defenses that mitigate the others offense while allowing that defense to provide a huge offense.

It boils down to the trope of, "A good defense is a good offense."

But until that ADC item 3035 it's donezo.

Radiant Seraph3 votes

Suggesting Clefable deals low damage with Moonblast lol [sg-lux-2]

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Suggesting Clefable deals low damage with Moonblast lol [sg-lux-2]

In a competitive setting, Clefable are used to tank hits with Follow Me. They also have defensive steroids and Moonlight, so they can heal, make themselves even tankier, then keep redirecting attacks. Of course, not all moves can be directed, but that's what they do to buy time for setups and critical KOs.

Also, its attack stats are "meh" at best. Base 95 special attack is the highest it goes. It's not going to be anyone's "premiere sweeper".

Radiant Seraph4 votes

Idc about VGC, but Calm Mind Clefable is fairly strong in singles

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