He builds a Trinity Force and then goes full tank and just keeps doing ridiculous damage while having insane mobility and over 3000 health.
He just out-damaged the enemy 15-7-14 Caitlyn.
This isn't OK.
Talinis5 votesTriforce is the big problem and needs to have something done about it. It's not surprising Ekko and Fizz utilize it as there is no really good first item AP for melees meanwhile triforce is a great stand alone item which provides good damage by itself and helps provide them with mobility and tankiness. Lichbane lacks horribly compared to it. If they provide proper itemization for AP's and bring triforce in line that wouldn't be an issue.
Right now they are over nerfing Fizz to bring him in line making his AP garbage and Ekko is going the same way. Both of their AP ratios on abilities is very low for a melee and looking at ekkos Q the base damage is higher than the ratios will ever give him in damage. It's sad. Sure, Fizz E and Ekko Ult has a large ratio but those are supposed to be "escape abilities" and with the nerf to the E CD on Fizz, it's more viable than ever to go tank over AP since AP version has no way to get out and can't tank being so squish. Riot has no clue how to handle them.
afk soon btw1 votesNO.
Dont touch an Item again so other Champions who got this Item as a Core Item get nerfed aswell. Just fcking nerf them already, buff their AP Assassin Playstyle and ffs remove those %missing Health on-hit the fck why do they even have this ?
Talinis2 votes[{quoted}](name=Insane Harambe,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y11RMpm3,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-09-26T00:20:25.836+0000)
NO.
Dont touch an Item again so other Champions who got this Item as a Core Item get nerfed aswell. Just fcking nerf them already, buff their AP Assassin Playstyle and ffs remove those %missing Health on-hit the fck why do they even have this ?
Triforce is too good as a standalone item, however if they want to leave it how it is, then they need to buff it's counterpart in lichbane. Zhonyas, a key component for the AP melee's was gutted because of ranged AP abuse. AP melees have very weak starting itemization compared to their AD brethren (Most melees are AD so there is a big pool but AP was designed with ranged champions in mind and it shows) and as such going AD into tank removes their early/mid weakness if they don't get multiple kills. Right now it's either snowball heavily or become useless and then pray you can make it to late game where you once again shine since the AP items all feed off each other. Riot needs to add some melee only effects on AP items or create a melee only AP item so that ranged can't abuse it that will help make the champs less feast or famine, something with a duskblade effect with missing hp would work well.
Also, saying to continually nerf them while their AP playstyles are becoming trash tier from all the nerfs is laughable. There is a reason nobody will take ekko or Fizz mid (besides westdoor and even he admits fizz isn't good) is because they can't snowball in LCS, fall behind in CS because they get zoned (casters praise the Fizz when he's "only"behind 20 CS where as any other champion they berate them saying they are losing lane) and then when team fighting comes can't even kill a target and die since they didn't snowball. Their ratios are garbage on their base moves, fully relying on a late game scaling lich to carry them with it's added ratio. Their best ratios are on their escape moves which they use for escape or die in melee. Ekko needs 4 seconds to allow his ult to catch up but AP won't live that long. Fizz E nerf forces him tank even more since he can't use E (highest damage ratio) for damage, zhonya and escape then with E. Meanwhile you have champions like Leblanc and Zed that use the same move to gap close and then open after doing all the damage. E needs a reset on kill mechanic for Fizz and Ekko needs ratio improvements. Then they can remove the missing health percentage (which frankly, does need to go).
Riot keeps nerfing FIzz and Ekko's early game (which hurts their AP builds more than AD since they can't snowball as easily) which in turn makes it more viable to just tank since they won't have kill potential as AP. They need to start changing them properly and understand how the champions actually work.
Requiemsfire1 votesEkko himself is the problem above all else, if he wasn't build trinity force he'd be build IBG. The amount of utility rigged within his kit to stick to a target and wail at them until they reach 0 health regardless of well they played. There's a reason other assassin's who may try to build like this ( save for Akali) won't achieve the same results.
Talinis1 votesEkko himself is the problem above all else, if he wasn't build trinity force he'd be build IBG. The amount of utility rigged within his kit to stick to a target and wail at them until they reach 0 health regardless of well they played. There's a reason other assassin's who may try to build like this ( save for Akali) won't achieve the same results.
Ekko is the problem but that's because they are giving him too much base damage/utility and garbage ratios. Look at his champion page and LOOK at the ratios on the abilities for damage. Siege mages with long range poke have better scaling. They need to lower his bases and bump up his ratios.
Triforce in general is just a problem on all the champions who build it. It's too good of a build path and too good of a standalone first item since it gives you everything in one item, and not in small amounts either. It negates the time in the game where certain champions are supposed to be weak.
Requiemsfire2 votesWhy's it a problem for being an all round item and what champions specifically is it a problem? Because a lot of champions people say are abusing said item are also calling champions whom are intended it to be built for are abusing it.
I mean hey, it's not like 
, 
they aren't abused or overbearing as a first item ;)
Jeddy0171 votesYou say they need to nerf bases & buff ratios but can we point out how Riot already did that several times? What good would this do to stop Tankko from being a thing since it clearly didn't work before. Instead of nerfing his bases & buffing his ratios, they have to target some of that utility in his kit.
Jbels2 votes3 slows, a stun, a "Fuck you I'm out" button, and Fervor of battle are the reasons Ekko is strong
Shaydrox2 votesBecause everytime they 'nerf' him he gets 7 compensation buffs
Great Muta1 votesEkko just has too many abilities. He has a slow, a heal, a dash, kind of a revive and a ranged attack. Just too many options while 95% of the rest of the champs don't,
Astôlfo1 votesHis "kind of a revive" doesn't work if he's dead, and it's his heal. No need to list it twice.
cinomenapplebae1 votesbut if you're good you just pop it when your about to die and survive and maybe potentialy get a kill
Astôlfo1 votesBecause yay for Triforce/Fervor.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votescuz RITO see 
Talinis1 votesIt's not an all around item, if it was, then the attack speed would be 20% and the CD 10%.. Right now, it has too much on it. 250 health is half of what an actual tank item would have on it. The mana is the same amount as it's weaker cousin, lichbane. 25 attack damage is about half of what an actual AD item has. 40% attack speed is equal to or more than what ADS get on their items and 20% CD is tied for most of any item outside Essence. Then you add in 5% ms which is what other AD items get. Then you add in a passive to gain even more speed, basically a built in boots and then on top of that add in a scaling 2.00 base damage attack move for burst. IT is TOO MUCH in one item. If you want an all around item then you need to make ALL points of the item weaker than what other items dedicated do. 40% attack speed needs to go and so does 20% cd.
And yes, we already know ghostblade is a problem and is due up for the chopping block come pre-season. Attack speed is gone and power moved to out of combat MS. Cleaver has a lot but some of it's power is gated behind multiple autos but I would agree it needs some cutting back.
AD items are mostly just stand alone items that don't heavily rely on other items to scale. The items AP melees need rely on late game for their items to reach the same power level. Deathcap relies getting more AP. Lichbane relies on getting more AP. Nashor relies on getting more AP. Void staff and Abyssal rely on getting more AP. Zhonyas relies on you getting it late game to survive team fights but any earlier and you screwed yourself due to being a trash item outside the active.
AP item snowballing is why Fizz is the best assassin late game because 1 combo with only 1 auto will do well over 5000 damage and anything less than 100 MR will be essentially true damage. Meaning he can 1 combo anyone that isn't the full tank. Getting there however is becoming increasingly difficult because if he isn't snowballed he won't be able to kill his target pre 5 or 6 items.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesoutdamaged a 15-7-14 Caitlyn over what period of time and how
Talinis1 votesoutdamaged a 15-7-14 Caitlyn over what period of time and how
He probably means that tank Ekko beat 15/7/14 cait in a fight 1 v 1 which meant he "outdamaged" her.
ChickenWrap2 votesHe probably means that tank Ekko beat 15/7/14 cait in a fight 1 v 1 which meant he "outdamaged" her.
No, I mean this:
Ekko's build was:
Cait's build was:
https://gyazo.com/76b2942682aa309e3fb7319b9fa5ddca.jpg
I don't think a full tank EKko should at any point be out-damaging a Caitlyn with a build like that.
Inb4 "It's not full tank because Deadman's deals damage on a passive and he has Trinity Force!"
It's a full tank build.
Talinis1 votesNo, I mean this:
Ekko's build was:
I don't think a full tank EKko should at any point be out-damaging a Caitlyn with a build like that.
Inb4 "It's not full tank because Deadman's deals damage on a passive and he has Trinity Force!"
It's a full tank build.
That doesn't say everything. Cait could've had a passive lane where not much fighting went on and might not have been in early game fights where as top could have been a scrap fest of constant poke and fighting which adds to damage done. Maybe you were doing a lot of dragon/baron dances while ekko was split push fighting. We already know ekko's bases are too high but you can't just base off one game which has various circumstances and say that he outdamages an ADC because that is wrong.
ChickenWrap1 votesThat doesn't say everything. Cait could've had a passive lane where not much fighting went on and might not have been in early game fights where as top could have been a scrap fest of constant poke and fighting which adds to damage done. Maybe you were doing a lot of dragon/baron dances while ekko was split push fighting. We already know ekko's bases are too high but you can't just base off one game which has various circumstances and say that he outdamages an ADC because that is wrong.
Nope, that's not what happened. He was just chunking us all game long for no reason whatsoever.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votestriforce isn't a tank item neither is blasting wand but really it depends on the enemy team. If you can go 15/5 as cait I'm not really surprised
Also something I've noticed is that if you build bloodthirster your damage goes down by a lot compared to armor pen + crits.
On adcs I try to go something like 50%+ crits + a bunch of armor pen for maximum average damage. Put in a short under-math'd way, 100% critical chance is not worth it right now on most champs I think.
Not to suggest more crit is bad or weak but I'm talking about maximum damage here not maximum viability
ChickenWrap1 votesoutdamaged a 15-7-14 Caitlyn over what period of time and how
39 minutes, and because Ekko is broken.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes"because ekko is broken" does not describe how ekko actually did the damage.
For all I know you got stunned and killed while full glass doing 0 damage for whatever reason
ChickenWrap1 votes"because ekko is broken" does not describe how ekko actually did the damage.
For all I know you got stunned and killed while full glass doing 0 damage for whatever reason
Sure it does. It's not like I was stunned for 39 minutes.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votessee this is why I asked, this changes the context of what you seem to be saying completely for me lol.
Also its not surprising at all that ekko could outdamge Caitlyn.
Full tank sejuani does the same things up to a point in a lot of games
The 2 highest damage outputs before a certain point are actually off-tank assassin types and mages not adcs. ADCs do a lot of damage of course but this only happens if they are able to attack targets safely whereas things like ekko or sejuani will throw their faces at any and everything randomly and just keep hitting multiple opponents and stacking up that damage. But that kind of damage can be healed off. ADC damage isn't going to simply be healed off, it happens more consistently or comes in the form of poke but mostly its hard and consistent but they don't get to do it whenever they want
So its not really that shocking that ekko would outdamage cait. The fact it happened over 39 minutes doesn't really say much but it suggests that the game went a certain way or that cait didn't do much damage most of the time for whatever reason which brings her strategy into question, which may have been a good strategy I should add but were wondering why ekko did more remember this.
Miraweave1 votesTriforce needs to be gutted, Fervor needs to be deleted.
