We're reworking mages guys

tXQbsPrjN5·May 3, 2016·7 votes·1,232 views

Proceeds to nerf all AP ratios, remove mana regen, nerf all AP items for mages, buff all AP items for AP assassins.

W o W

So who really comes out on top from this rework? Btw Malz isn't a mage, he's an anti assassin that can farm from tower and it's why hes seen a positive win rate for so many seasons, he has an easier time dealing with the monumental amounts of bullshit that riot has thrown mid lane than practically everybody else, from Yasuo to Azir, there basically isn't a champ in the game that can just beat Malz from the pick screen alone. They changed him for the sake of changing him but he can still ult ahri or hisagidumbboy (even though it does no damage now) so it's all good I guess.

35 Comments

ZeroleraMay 3, 20163 votes

So please do elaborate - what AP item that DOESN'T provide tankyness has its AP ratio nerf and which mage actually got screwed in terms of overall damage and not just simply looking at ratios?

LauchmelderMay 3, 20161 votes

I'd think Azir Comes out slightly behind. Can't say for sure though.

ZeroleraMay 3, 20161 votes

Not if he still goes the Morello route.

LauchmelderMay 3, 20161 votes

I never went Morellos on him. A lot of players don't buy Manaregen on him. It's only really usefull if you have to spam your soldiers + Qs to counterpush an Anivia for example.

L0ve Is BlueMay 3, 20163 votes

item 3157 -30 AP and +30 sec cooldown on active for a mere 10% CDR item 3001 -10 AP item 3174 -20 AP and the item got leggit butchered to be only usefull on a handfull of champions item 3027 -20 AP and - 400 mana overall.

Those are the raw AP losses. Now in term of items being bad in general...

Protobelt will just make everyone forced to get one in order to keep up with the now omni-present mobility while giving a huge advantage to all AP assassins by giving them more mobility

item 3010 passive is now leggit useless unless you have a toggle. Doesn't give mana anymore unless you get bursted.

item 3165 Can't sustain your mana by itself anymore.

Hextech ice thingy is leggit crap. Shitty active, some AP, some health, some mana and the more than bad catalyst passive.

So in general, -80 AP total while the only item that got its AP buffed is morello for 20, no mana regen available unless you get frost queen, and the ONLY item that had a decent active (Zhonya) gets gutted.

ZeroleraMay 3, 20162 votes

I love how I asked for items that didn't provide defensive stats and even bothered to capitalize it for you and literally every item you listed provides a mean of gaining health, MR or Armor. Time to get some reading comprehension!

L0ve Is BlueMay 3, 20161 votes

Well item 3089 item 3135 item 3285 Didn't get nerfed if that's what you wanna know. The only other raw AP item that doesn't provide any kind of defense is Morello and it did get worse.

And the fact that items that don't provide defensive stats didn't get touched doesn't mean AP isn't just worse overall.

ZeroleraMay 3, 20162 votes

Have you actually played the new mages on the PBE? I've been itching to release my Cassi and Zyra mid and Brand support on live to wreck these little children.

L0ve Is BlueMay 3, 20162 votes

That's exactly the problem. The only mages that are going to be strong are the reworked one, and they are probably going to get nerfed right after and we will be in the same state that we are now.

ZeroleraMay 3, 20161 votes

Annie is gonna be a little prick with being able to have a 30 seconds flash to constantly tibbers a team or she can combine it with her actual flash for an even great initiation. Ahri is going to be super annoying with that item as well.

As far as actual AP goes any mage that takes advantage of the morello + seraph combo will be just fine in terms of damage. Also although the hextech GLP active is not that impressive having a 200 +35% AP aoe skill really isn't that bad to use. The range is nice on it too.

L0ve Is BlueMay 3, 20161 votes

Yes, Annie and Ahri will be annoying. And that's why the update will have failed, because the whole point of it was to make it better to play AS and AGAINST mages. Not all mages feels either fun or bad to play, and just bad to play against.

any mage that takes advantage of the morello + seraph combo will be just fine in terms of damage

Unless they run out of mana.

AutomatisMay 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XsY2U7dP,comment-id=000300010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-03T15:14:56.935+0000)

That's exactly the problem. The only mages that are going to be strong are the reworked one, and they are probably going to get nerfed right after and we will be in the same state that we are now.

Orianna Heimerdinger Karthus Zilean Karma Lux Ryze Rumble

Not saying all of these mages will be UP, but I am saying all of these mages were ignored despite sweeping changes to their itemization.

Also not including the mage-assassin hybrids like Ahri TwistedFate

I think Ryze is getting reworked yet again after this so that might be why he's unchanged now.

Critmaster GarenMay 3, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XsY2U7dP,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-05-03T15:01:06.879+0000)

passive is now leggit useless unless you have a toggle. Doesn't give mana anymore unless you get bursted.

why would you need a toggle for that passive?

when you take damage, you regain mana. when you spend mana, you get health back.

why would you ever want to turn it off?

L0ve Is BlueMay 3, 20161 votes

Because getting damaged to get sustain is leggit bad. The point of sustaining yourself is to not have to recall. If you lose health to gain mana or mana to gain health (considering mana regen is non existant), you will be missing one of the 2 at one point and be forced to back while ADC's can just crit their health and mana back and tanks can regen via warmog.

Plus, the passive gives a maximum of 25 health per mana expense, so a regular mage would only get 100HP back with a full rotation of spells. SO the only way for this item to be usefull is to have a toggle or a very short cooldown spell like Karthus Q.

I think you miss understood, I didn't say the passive need a toggle, I said the champion who uses it need a toggled spell in order for the passive of the item to be ''Decent''

Critmaster GarenMay 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XsY2U7dP,comment-id=0003000100010000,timestamp=2016-05-03T15:27:15.795+0000)

Because getting damaged to get sustain is leggit bad. The point of sustaining yourself is to not have to recall. If you lose health to gain mana or mana to gain health (considering mana regen is non existant), you will be missing one of the 2 at one point and be forced to back while ADC's can just crit their health and mana back and tanks can regen via warmog.

Plus, the passive gives a maximum of 25 health per mana expense, so a regular mage would only get 100HP back with a full rotation of spells. SO the only way for this item to be usefull is to have a toggle or a very short cooldown spell like Q.

I think you miss understood, I didn't say the passive need a toggle, I said the champion who uses it need a toggled spell in order for the passive of the item to be ''Decent''

oh well. i dont think that you need a toggled spell. look at lux mana costs for example. youre spending more mana, on a single spell, so you get more health back.

while someone with a toggled spell gains less health but more contineously.

L0ve Is BlueMay 3, 20161 votes

Like I said, you can only get a maximum of 25 health per spell. So even if Lux's E cost 130 mana you will only get 25 health.

DreampodMay 3, 20161 votes

I know the Zhonya's change is getting a lot of hate but my experience with it on the PBE is that it is actually a bit better.

Wait, wait, put down the pitchforks! The changes make it a better first item rush for against AD in lane. The 17% cost reduction makes it more achievable to get it while still in lane and at that stage of the game 10% cooldown is a bigger damage boost than 30 AP because you are still relying primarily on base damages.

It is definitely weaker at full build and the active cooldown increase makes me sad but with the new dragons I expect average game times to drop and full build to become much rarer and the early game power becomes more important for securing that first or second dragon.

The DeckownerMay 3, 20161 votes

viktor?

ZeroleraMay 3, 20161 votes

Viktor Q is stronger, his E is stronger assuming you got some sort of CC to keep them there for one second and the total damage of the ultimate is higher the only thing weaker being the initial burst.

The DeckownerMay 3, 20161 votes

q is only single target. e becomes extremely unreliable due to the explodsion being delayed, ulti is pretty much useless due to each tic of the dmg will have a 2 SECOND INTERVAL. who the fuck will stay in that ultimate for a long time? it is 2 second per tic meaning it will take multiple seconds for the full dmg to go off. he is gonna be extremely clunky to play despite having dmg buffs.

and he still doesnt have any reliable cc of his own.

a champion who cant perform their kit without the help of other champions is not capable in a solo lane.

DreampodMay 3, 20161 votes

Losing the ability to keep enemies in the ult with rylai's (since the slow now expires between ticks) is a pretty big hit to it despite the theoretical damage bump. And the E feels TERRIBLE, it may be better in highly coordinated teams with lots of CC but putting the bulk of the ability's damage behind a narrow skillshot with a massive delay is ugly and the reward for hitting it isn't big enough to make the slightly above average but not amazing damage worthwhile.

I was excited about Viktor's rework but honestly I think he is the only one of the focus mages coming out worse than he went in.

LauchmelderMay 3, 20162 votes

Meanwhile Mres gets nerfed too

tXQbsPrjN5May 3, 20164 votes

OH WOW YOU MEAN I CAN FINALLY DEAL SOME DAMAGE TO ANYONE WHO BUILt A COWL NOW WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW THX RITO GAMSU YOU'RE NOT INCOMPETENT BABOONS AT ALL

Bobloser3555May 3, 20161 votes

MR doesnt get nerfed its just harder to stack it. Price is still the same as far as I know. It's cheaper than armor per point.

Critmaster GarenMay 3, 20162 votes

they reduced some ap values but buffed the shit out of mages kits diectly.

vlad, veigar, brand, and malzahar just got straight up damage buffs like crazy.

fiddles got extra utility into his kit. swain has more utility with the placement of his bird zoning off an area. also, youre only looking at the item changes and ignoring how blue buff now has a 15% ap buff, and drakes can stack up higher.

Bobloser3555May 3, 20161 votes

some mages? and what about the others? thats the problem Riot buffs some champs and leaves the others in the dust, this way balance cannot be restored.

mogonkMay 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brandon Heat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XsY2U7dP,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-03T14:36:55.293+0000)

So who really comes out on top from this rework?

Veigar is an absolute monster now.

Like, I can pretty much guarantee the very next patch after this update they will nerf Veigar, and until then he's going to see close to a 60% winrate.

iamblambMay 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Veigar is an absolute monster now.

Like, I can pretty much guarantee the very next patch after this update they will nerf Veigar, and until then he's going to see close to a 60% winrate.

Aren't they removing his passive mana regen? That's gonna kill me in lane. Q.Q

AbyssphereMay 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Aren't they removing his passive mana regen? That's gonna kill me in lane. Q.Q

All of his mana costs are going down, Q in particular.

Restless SlumberMay 3, 20161 votes

There is more cdr available and more actives. Overall it's not that bad. P.S. Going tear into Morello's is going to be super strong on a lot of mages, which will bump up your AP significantly from Seraph's.

Big LincolnMay 3, 20161 votes

must be why every high ELO youtuber and streamer has said that the mages are op

The DeckownerMay 3, 20161 votes

actually all the buffed items are to ap tanks, get ready for roa on every tanky top laner.

TheRealBazMay 3, 20161 votes

champs like yi and jax can now be played without feeling guilty of cheating. i consider this a buff to jax as i used to play him all the time before sated

ZT XperimentorMay 3, 20161 votes

Cannot upvote enough [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Meep ManMay 3, 20161 votes

S Tier: Top of the line Mages who will do well in the new update. Veigar Annie Galio Veigar is pretty simple. He just got straight up buffed and got an ultimate that doesn't rely on Champion Select. Scary. Malzahar is incredibly powerful on the PBE, mainly due to his Jungle build. His extremely early capability of soloing epic monsters changes the game extremely, especially with epic monsters becoming more important in general. Annie got tons of changes and, I must say, what was hated about her was nerfed. However, she then got buffed in other places, especially with her E. She is now like Malzahar where she can effectively counter Assassins and still be a Mage. Very powerful. Galio got an indirect buff in tons of places. More Mages = More MR = Better Galio. AP Gapcloser item that makes his ultimate better. Galio got direct buffs as well. Galio is looking really good.

A Tier: The next line of Mages from S Tier. Good because they got buffed from last patch, most of the time from an already decent status. They might also be here because they counter some S Tier Mages. The S Tier might also be where they are because they counter these Mages. Ziggs Zyra Swain Velkoz Karma Vladimir is another great anti-assassin. He is a huge counter to Zed in Middle Lane (hint: Pool before Zed appears from ultimate), and has amazing sustain now. Cassiopeia is yet another anti-assassin. Tons of assassins are going to wanna play next patch with Mages running about, and that is just what Cass wants. The anti-mobility Mage likes this. Ziggs got a new niche in this patch, somewhat, and that niche is amazing. His W has become a pushing machine and he counters the buffs to towers this patch. Zyra got buffed, even if by a little, and that lands her here. Simple as that. Ok then, strong now. Brand is now the wombo combo Mage. His Passive can proc his passive, so that makes him incredibly good at chaining kills, making him a power house once his ultimate is up especially. Swain used to have a problem to where, if he couldn't see you, you were safe. No longer the case. Swain's Q is now a skill shot and zoning tool AND wave clear. Plus, his E damage amp was buffed to be 20% at all ranks, which was the main reason for maxing it, meaning Swain got a huge buff in general. Plus new RoA synergizes with Swain a lot. A fed Swain can 100% end a game now. Vel'Koz got a decent buff to his ultimate, but nerfs to the rest of his kit. What makes him A Tier then? His ultimate. It's that good now. Karma and here is why. Athene's still works for Karma, because of her shield, and that's all she needs. She got buffed from this item rework and she was already decent in the game right now.