Is Not Wanting To Leash For Your Jungler WRONG?

its me brna··2 votes·2,539 views

For the past few seasons leashing the jungler has always been considered a common practice if not "meta".. however as a player who prefers to play top lane this season I find there are many match-ups where hitting level two late can really lose you the lane quickly and others where having a strong push on your opponent can give you a decent edge in lane.

As an example, with Riven I prefer to have a Trundle or enemy Irelia pushed in right from level 1 due to their poor ability to wave clear. Often times in both of these match-ups the lane becomes a struggle if they harass you a lot at level 1 and having that push to reach level 2 and keep them under their tower for a little while helps prevent them from bullying you as much.

When I have to leash for a jungler I find that these match-ups can become incredibly difficult as from my perspective my champion is already at a disadvantage laning vs them to begin with. Due to this I really feel frustrated when a jungler comes top-side and wants me to leash his camp for him. The above examples are two champions aren't even hard counters to Riven. In match-ups where the enemy laner counters it's even worse of a nightmare as a champion like Olaf or Renekton can zone or punish you very hard at level two and it becomes a little difficult to weasel CS without them beating on you or poking you out of lane.

This doesn't only apply to one single champion either, if a champion reaches level two power spike before you then there's good odds that they are also going to reach both their level three and their level six power spike before you as well. Often times especially in competitive play these become huge swingers for the game when you see an Alistar combo'd with a high burst ADC come out to lane and instantly hit level two Flashing in Headbutt / Pulverize combo for the First Blood.

I hope something can be done so that laners can't or don't have to leash for junglers. I don't have many ideas on how this could be worked on however I do think that it would be interesting if jungle mobs were only target-able by champions with Smite for the first five minutes of the game. Having something like this implemented would allow the mobs in the jungle to be nurfed slightly so that not only more champions would be viable in the jungle but also to allow for faster clear of the jungle so that junglers can have more influence with their team which would make up for the lack of a leash early on. Perhaps scaling the jungle mobs up to the time where the jungle mobs would become target-able by all champions.

22 Comments

IronwallJackson6 votes

Not wanting to? No, that's not wrong. Actually leaving your Jg without a leash? Much more so. The jungle is pretty well balanced around leashing, and the metagame favors it enough that an un-leashed jungler ends up far, far behind their enemy counterpart.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

Not wanting to? No, that's not wrong. Actually leaving your Jg without a leash? Much more so. The jungle is pretty well balanced around leashing, and the metagame favors it enough that an un-leashed jungler ends up far, far behind their enemy counterpart.

I agree and I believe that isn't actually fair in a way. Junglers get punished the majority of the time if they cannot get a leash, top lane has no advantage from leashing a jungler and bot lane potentially could have an advantage if they took the small krug which the other side doesn't even have. So yes, you are 100% correct however I feel it would just be more beneficial all around to rework the jungle in some way that prevents laners from even having to deal with the inconsistencies that are present right now in the game.

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

Definitely. Especially since level 2 ganking has become rampant, you can't afford to leave your jungle without a leash. That would be almost costing the game if they can't gank early because they're too low. If you want your jungle to like you, gank. If you want them to forget you on the first rotation, don't leash and the first gank will happen on the opposite side.

However, If I see top, mid, and bot not leashing the jungler, I will immediately counter-jungle that jungle. I will also gank their strong side since the jungler can't respond, and if they do, get them as first blood. So, if you want to give me an easy game, leash for me, or if enemy, don't leash your jungle. I'm always watching.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

Definitely. Especially since level 2 ganking has become rampant, you can't afford to leave your jungle without a leash. That would be almost costing the game if they can't gank early because they're too low. If you want your jungle to like you, gank. If you want them to forget you on the first rotation, don't leash and the first gank will happen on the opposite side.

However, If I see top, mid, and bot not leashing the jungler, I will immediately counter-jungle that jungle. I will also gank their strong side since the jungler can't respond, and if they do, get them as first blood. So, if you want to give me an easy game, leash for me, or if enemy, don't leash your jungle. I'm always watching.

Yes, and this is so wrong on many levels, especially for a top laner. Basically in any harder match-up where you are forced to leash the jungler you are screwed if you leash and even more screwed if you do not. It's not something that I have grown very fond of in this current meta.

Zoeeee2 votes

If my jungler goes top side I just hit /muteall

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

With games rolling quicker, sometimes bot lane can be a little less of a priority. If Bot needs to rotate, they can. Especially with junglers that need Blue early like Maoki.

Zoeeee1 votes

{quoted}

With games rolling quicker, sometimes bot lane can be a little less of a priority. If Bot needs to rotate, they can. Especially with junglers that need Blue early like Maoki.

Bring on the Down-votes. :) It depends on the toplane matchup. Tank vs tank is less of an issue since there is little kill pressure, and they both should have some waveclear. In match ups likes riven vs Irelia the slightest advantage can snowball out of control. Slow pushing on your opponent is a big deal, and can lead to a lot of missed exp, and ranged cs. I hate it when I leash, and the jungler doesn't gank the over extended lane. I try to warn my jungler that I will lose lane pressure if I leash. Plus Nasus has one of the worst leashes in the game.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

If you have a jungle who normally starts on your side, you should adjust. The game is about who can outplay who, by whatever means, teamwork, skill, etc. A leash can be as simple as taking two hits-give two hits and leaving. The first wave of minion clear is important in deciding who is level 2 first. You need not worry if you get pushed back into your tower, you have a jungler nearby who will be arriving shortly.

Reaching level 2 on mid is a bit more important, especially since the lane requires very quick weaving to succeed, and can always be ganked early before the first recall. So if the jungle is near you, you should give consideration and just leash. You have to give and take.

Wolfess2 votes

look at it this way, you're both on the same team and working towards the same goal: beating the enemy team and destroying their nexus. it only takes a few seconds to help leash and it will make your jungler's life a bit easier by giving them a nice start in the jungle since they kill the first camp faster and take less damage. PLUS you WANT your jungler to have smooth and fast first clear, because that way you will have stronger ganks sooner if you work together and cooperate.

or would you care to argue that not helping your jungler is more beneficial for your team?

its me brna1 votes

Well that is actually not my argument at all, I feel that depending where you are, leashing your jungler has varying degrees of impact on the game. As a duo in a lane there is no real side effects of leashing your jungler. In a solo lane you can lose an EXP advantage however. How is it fair that the solo laner will miss out most of the time when the bottom side of the map will miss very little from a leash? The mechanic of leashing for the jungler is not actually thought out quite as well as it seems from the game's developmental standpoint. I think they should adjust it in some way so that it's not important or even necessary to leash for a jungler anymore.

Wolfess1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Poptart Riven NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XrQRvyjb,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-05-22T09:00:13.947+0000)

Well that is actually not my argument at all, I feel that depending where you are, leashing your jungler has varying degrees of impact on the game. As a duo in a lane there is no real side effects of leashing your jungler. In a solo lane you can lose an EXP advantage however. How is it fair that the solo laner will miss out most of the time when the bottom side of the map will miss very little from a leash? The mechanic of leashing for the jungler is not actually thought out quite as well as it seems from the game's developmental standpoint. I think they should adjust it in some way so that it's not important or even necessary to leash for a jungler anymore.

even if they make the jungle so that it isn't necessary to leash (even though technically it's not necessary at all now) leashing will STILL be a thing because EXP is a race to see who gets the next level FASTER because that along can be a deciding factor of who wins a trade, a skirmish, or a lane because a lot of champs' damage scaling early on comes from their skill base damages and later on from actual item stat scaling, therefore even if one could clear a jungle solo, if you help your jungler do it FASTER than the enemy jungler, you're already putting your jungler and possibly your team AHEAD of the curve.

its me brna1 votes

Well, like I said above I believe they should just change it so that it's simply impossible for anyone except a jungler to target jungle monsters... they could be like immune to damage from champions who do not have smite and not able to share EXP to champions without smite for the first 5 or even 6 minutes of the game. This would also mean that when an enemy team is going for an invade it wouldn't be just to cheese, it would have a clear directive of giving their jungler an exclusive early advantage.

Wolfess1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Poptart Riven NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XrQRvyjb,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-22T23:08:39.139+0000)

Well, like I said above I believe they should just change it so that it's simply impossible for anyone except a jungler to target jungle monsters... they could be like immune to damage from champions who do not have smite and not able to share EXP to champions without smite for the first 5 or even 6 minutes of the game. This would also mean that when an enemy team is going for an invade it wouldn't be just to cheese, it would have a clear directive of giving their jungler an exclusive early advantage.

this also means not being able to give your laners blue buff or red buff to help them win lanes, especially blue buff for mids since mana is a major part of being able to out-trade and harass when early level mana pool and regen is low, in turn meaning that this would turn into an indirect buff for zed laners since it could cripple their opponent early on since he has super-fast regen energy.

An invade early isn't just cheese either, it's strategically denying your opponent gold and exp and hijacking their resource, which is higher tier gameplay. Honestly at this point it sounds more like a "please don't take my jungle" thread.

Drehirth2 votes

If i'm jungling I don't ever want to put somebody in an awkward position like that and don't ask for a top leash. It's so much more convenient and free for a botside leash

spombjop1 votes

Bot lane depends way more in reaching level 2 than top lane. If Leona/Draven reach lvl 2 first, boom first blood.

EMeta1 votes

Give a shorter leash if you must, but at least give a couple hits. On Riven, if you AA-Q-AA, then use the other Qs to get back to lane, you're not going to miss any minions. The difference to the jungler is huge.

If you're dead-set against leashing, then just let the jungler know in champ select or first thing in game so he knows to start on the other side.

ff4sk1 votes

Well if you don't feel like you're entitled to leash your jungler don't feel entitled for his time to come gank your lane and give you free kills. It's always been "meta" to gank lanes and give laners kills but it always irritates me when laners actually feel entitled to get ganks, buffs, and kills. Like, can you not? What if i wanted to farm all game? what if I wanted to keep the kill for myself? what if i felt like spending the game picking people off and getting fed without caring about my team?

In all seriousness though I main a leash-less jungler and can clear camps on my own so I don't need your leash however you need your jungler just as much as they need you, the mentality of you being more important than your jungler in a team game needs to stop. Junglers aren't a second support and many are far more capable at carrying games than top laners.

But sure, you do you bro. Just don't be surprised when your jungler falls behind or doesn't gank your lane the entire match.

III BAKURYU III 1 votes

Next time ask your jungler to duo jungle with them. Do grump(junger) Blue(jungler gets buff)(you get the small ones) and Wolves(he gets big one and 1 or none small ones) and you should be fine going back and Tp to lane or with the item 2033 you can use 1 and be fine until you feel the need to back and use TP.

Its not wrong to not leash but you have to remember that the jungler has to give up each blues after the 1st one to their mid, and while trying to farm always being 1-2 levels behind the lanes having to gank 24/7 depending on what elo it is.

Fovere1 votes

While I agree with OP, most junglers expect it and it often affects who they pick and the runes/masteries they take.

It is a really big difference having to start solo jungle at level 1, or level 2 with a krug or gromp buff. Taking that first camp at L1 can cost a lot of health and undermine the ability to even get that first clear. It also makes them a lot more vulnerable to counter jungling and early invade/ganking, they will clear slower and at lower health, where the enemy jungler with a good leash will have the time to get into position and be healthy for the duel

NeX Daark1 votes

Yes, you should be leashing. If you leash correctly you should not miss any lane xp.

By not leashing you set your jungler back at least 30 seconds on the first clear. Any advantage you gain by showing up to your lane on early will be lost and more-so by the lack of jungle presence.

Paveregilfur1 votes

just played a game with udyr jungler. I normally DON'T leash, but gave this udyr the benefit of the doubt. (my laner was mord and I was jayce). So I leashed for udyr, which allowed mord to push to my tower after the very first wave. what does udyr do? NOTHING. continues to farm until he gets to bot side and GANKS BOT LANE. fk leashing. you junglers don't know how to make a decision based on what is currently happening on the map. I know if I was jungling I would have swung top and ganked and at least get a flash out of it.

The Highest Noon1 votes

As someone who usually plays junglers that literally do not need a leash nor smite to clear the entire jungle without even losing half the life bar, I'd say no. The only reason you really do so is to make jungling easier, but in that regard having a support-jungler would make it as easy as possible.

People should learn to jungle without a leash before they start requiring you to leash them.

Of course, it's a bit harder for some junglers that aren't optimized for solo clearing, but that's on them for picking trash junglers lol

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