Not to sound ungrateful about the long due Irelia nerfs on PBE but...

I memba balance ·Nov 28, 2018·87 votes·19,715 views

Once again you're nerfing the wrong skill or mechanic on a champion. The simple truth is Irelia has a completely overloaded kit. Tell me why she gets 200 attack range which by the way, is the HIGHEST out of all "Melee" champions. Tell me why she can auto me as GP and walk away before i can even retaliate with an auto attack because she outranges me by 75. Why does she get to stack her passive and Conquerer on minions to fuck me into oblivion at lvl 3 if she hits her E so she can dash to me twice with Ignite and kill me? Why does she have 2 ways of marking champions for resets on her Q as well as a 3rd option of reset on killing the Q'ed target? You honestly think the W cooldown and the amount of damage reduction she got were the main issues behind this disaster of balance?

99 Comments

AlzonNov 28, 201854 votes

Because Riot thinks it’s OK for counterplay to include standing behind your turret because the enemy got to the minion wave, even if it’s the only option other than feeding/wasting flash at 25% HP. After all, it’s still counterplay. Right?

Edit: For the guy who downvoted me, I have a pretty good track record laning against Irelia. I know when to fight her and when not to. I also have a good grasp of how minion waves work. That doesn’t mean I don’t absolutely hate standing behind my turret while the enemy freely last hits with the wave outside of even EXP range for me. Sure it will slow push back to me so I can gobble up a bunch of minions under tower, but at what cost? Losing 40% of my EXP and gold to a hyperscaling champion who gets to free farm? Sure killing her feels nice, but it’s not enough to make up the difference. I’ll come out of lane 3/0 but down 2 levels and 30 CS simply because I’m playing entirely around Irelia’s “windows of power”.

MalakNov 28, 201818 votes

{quoted}

Because Riot thinks it’s OK for counterplay to include standing behind your turret because the enemy got to the minion wave, even if it’s the only option other than feeding/wasting flash at 25% HP. After all, it’s still counterplay. Right?

Edit: For the guy who downvoted me, I have a pretty good track record laning against Irelia. I know when to fight her and when not to. I also have a good grasp of how minion waves work. That doesn’t mean I don’t absolutely hate standing behind my turret while the enemy freely last hits with the wave outside of even EXP range for me. Sure it will slow push back to me so I can gobble up a bunch of minions under tower, but at what cost? Losing 40% of my EXP and gold to a hyperscaling champion who gets to free farm? Sure killing her feels nice, but it’s not enough to make up the difference. I’ll come out of lane 3/0 but down 2 levels and 30 CS simply because I’m playing entirely around Irelia’s “windows of power”.

Well said. Hiding behind your turret is appearantly "good gameplay"

TobykachuNov 29, 20188 votes

Except they then introduced Akali and now you can't even stand behind your tower because true stealth is totally fine and balanced!

Minimac2000Nov 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because Riot thinks it’s OK for counterplay to include standing behind your turret because the enemy got to the minion wave, even if it’s the only option other than feeding/wasting flash at 25% HP. After all, it’s still counterplay. Right?

Edit: For the guy who downvoted me, I have a pretty good track record laning against Irelia. I know when to fight her and when not to. I also have a good grasp of how minion waves work. That doesn’t mean I don’t absolutely hate standing behind my turret while the enemy freely last hits with the wave outside of even EXP range for me. Sure it will slow push back to me so I can gobble up a bunch of minions under tower, but at what cost? Losing 40% of my EXP and gold to a hyperscaling champion who gets to free farm? Sure killing her feels nice, but it’s not enough to make up the difference. I’ll come out of lane 3/0 but down 2 levels and 30 CS simply because I’m playing entirely around Irelia’s “windows of power”.

Yep, it's the same counterplay playing against any ranged top as a melee has. Just let them do whatever they want and wait for them to screw up.

ModWulf HelhammerNov 28, 201819 votes

People complaining about Irelia’s reset marks don’t seem to get the reason why she was reworked in the first place.

And no, you don’t want to remove the central feature of a champion, because then they become bland. You take off power from other areas, so that when a champion is played well, they still have their strength, but when they are played poorly, you can capitalize on it and punish them.

DarkTree1Nov 28, 201834 votes

{quoted}

People complaining about Irelia’s reset marks don’t seem to get the reason why she was reworked in the first place.

And no, you don’t want to remove the central feature of a champion, because then they become bland. You take off power from other areas, so that when a champion is played well, they still have their strength, but when they are played poorly, you can capitalize on it and punish them.

she was reworked because a point & click reset dash was unfun to play against, and then they gave her more ways to reset her point & click dash.

ModWulf HelhammerNov 29, 201818 votes

No, she was reworked because her telekinetic blade wielder fantasy didn’t exist. Her one interesting ability that captured it, her q, was just used for killing minions, and then she just slapped you to death.

The entire point of her rework was to make Bladesurge the core mechanic of her kit, to make it her central ability that everything else works off of.

ankoanko19Nov 29, 201824 votes

{quoted}

No, she was reworked because her telekinetic blade wielder fantasy didn’t exist. Her one interesting ability that captured it, her q, was just used for killing minions, and then she just slapped you to death.

The entire point of her rework was to make Bladesurge the core mechanic of her kit, to make it her central ability that everything else works off of.

But how does this play out balance wise? Maybe she shouldnt be this insane teamfight resetter she currently is because : A) She didnt play out like this before B) She becomes grossly broken.

ModWulf HelhammerNov 29, 20189 votes

A) yeah.... that’s kinda the entire point of a rework?

B) Except she isn’t. Perfectly average win rate with a decent pick rate. You can’t balance off of people’s “feeling” that’s she’s unfair; that doesn’t create balance, it creates bias.

Also, she doesn’t reset a bunch in team fights unless she’s getting several spell rotations off, hitting everyone with them. If that’s happening, that’s you severely misplaying. Dying from not respecting a champions strengths means you need to play better, not that a champion is overpowered.

ankoanko19Nov 29, 201822 votes

{quoted}

A) yeah.... that’s kinda the entire point of a rework?

B) Except she isn’t. Perfectly average win rate with a decent pick rate. You can’t balance off of people’s “feeling” that’s she’s unfair; that doesn’t create balance, it creates bias.

Also, she doesn’t reset a bunch in team fights unless she’s getting several spell rotations off, hitting everyone with them. If that’s happening, that’s you severely misplaying. Dying from not respecting a champions strengths means you need to play better, not that a champion is overpowered.

A) I strictly remember Riot telling Irelia mains they didnt want her to play differently compared to the old one. Her old kit wasnt toxic, it was just old.

B) Bruh? She has a 17% pickrate. Thats almost seeing her 1/5 every game. Except you cant because of her absurd banrate. I get that her WR is low, but I believe its mostly cause people first try her and just fail.

Pro players failing, got it. Just accept it man. Me along with most other Irelia mains, even influental ones like ICU and Gbay almost all agree that Riot turned a very iconic and fair champ to whatever Irelia is today. I still love her but Riot refuses to balance her correctly and this W nerf is one balance change that proves that.

chipndip1Nov 29, 201813 votes

Gbay99 spent a ton of time talking about how shit old Irelia was, but he liked playing her regardless. Her W had literally no scaling, her ult was bland, and her E was stupid and supported REALLY BAD habits (getting wailed on and pulling the rug from under someone who was outplaying you solely because you were losing isn't "fair" in the slightest).

ankoanko19Nov 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Gbay99 spent a ton of time talking about how shit old Irelia was, but he liked playing her regardless. Her W had literally no scaling, her ult was bland, and her E was stupid and supported REALLY BAD habits (getting wailed on and pulling the rug from under someone who was outplaying you solely because you were losing isn't "fair" in the slightest).

Gbay also mentions he liked the way Irelia plays. The current Irelia isnt as aggressive nor does she have the same skill ceiling because the current Irelia is so overloaded she can do everything the old one did but 100x better ( outside of dueling ofc ). Her E was fair because it was a very low ranged stun that was situational. Her current stun is a skillshot but you know damn well if she hits it on you, youre dead.

chipndip1Nov 29, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Gbay also mentions he liked the way Irelia plays. The current Irelia isnt as aggressive nor does she have the same skill ceiling because the current Irelia is so overloaded she can do everything the old one did but 100x better ( outside of dueling ofc ). Her E was fair because it was a very low ranged stun that was situational. Her current stun is a skillshot but you know damn well if she hits it on you, youre dead.

I swear you guys just throw buzzwords every-damn-where.

"Her skill ceiling isn't the same because she does more than just click on people to function in the game OOOOOHHHH NNNNNNOOOOOO!!!!!"

...good. Just because you don't notice a champion doesn't mean it's balanced. It means it might just suck, which Gbay99 continually said about old Irelia because all she (and most fighters before these recent designs) could do is split push since her team fight was garbage after the mid game.

Don't throw around words like "overloaded" and "skill ceiling" if you're just using them to farm upvotes.

ankoanko19Nov 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I swear you guys just throw buzzwords every-damn-where.

"Her skill ceiling isn't the same because she does more than just click on people to function in the game OOOOOHHHH NNNNNNOOOOOO!!!!!"

...good. Just because you don't notice a champion doesn't mean it's balanced. It means it might just suck, which Gbay99 continually said about old Irelia because all she (and most fighters before these recent designs) could do is split push since her team fight was garbage after the mid game.

Don't throw around words like "overloaded" and "skill ceiling" if you're just using them to farm upvotes.

You obviously dont get it. Irelia was a more difficult champion to master before. She's currently more difficult to pick up and play. It's not fun being the best at everything and doing it so easily. The old Irelia had clear windows of weaknesses this one really doesnt compared to the old one. If Nami ever gets reworked and is given all the tools necessary to be the best god damn support or at least one of them, you'll see what I mean.

How can you not call the current Irelia overloaded? She is a jack of all trades BUT she is the master of at least 3. She has excellent teamfighting, splitpushing and 1v1 against squishy targets and SHES NEVER BAD AT ANY STAGE OF THE GAME! The old Irelia was also a jack of all trades but all she was really good at was dueling (and even then, that fantasy quickly weared off after 25 minutes). Riot needs to tune irelia, make her less overloaded and make her an early-midgame oriented duelist. Because currently, Irelia is NOT Irelia.

chipndip1Nov 29, 20184 votes

{quoted}

You obviously dont get it. Irelia was a more difficult champion to master before.

I was halfway tempted to not respond solely because of this line.

If you think champs like Garen are hard to master because it's harder to climb on them, you got it fucked up. Mastering a kit filled to the brim with just targeted AA spam isn't "hard". Your issue is that mastering it didn't mean jack shit.

Or do you want to tell me something spicy about Annie's skill ceiling now?

How can you not call the current Irelia overloaded? She is a jack of all trades BUT she is the master of at least 3. She has excellent teamfighting, splitpushing and 1v1 against squishy targets and SHES NEVER BAD AT ANY STAGE OF THE GAME!

Team fight's "good".
1v1s are match-up dependent.
She's designed to murder squishies like mages and marksmen. Why would you walk into your own counter-pick? The point is to stop her blade dancing so she loses her resets, then knock her out before she can escape or get her cds back to try again. If you just put your back line champs on a platter...good...go get them all killed. You deserve it.

We have a ton of early to mid game fighters. Irelia's like one of the few fighters that aren't shit to play in the late game. Unless you want to retroactively make Gbay's analysis of fighters correct (again), I'd say stop whining for the sake of whining.

ankoanko19Nov 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I was halfway tempted to not respond solely because of this line.

If you think champs like Garen are hard to master because it's harder to climb on them, you got it fucked up. Mastering a kit filled to the brim with just targeted AA spam isn't "hard". Your issue is that mastering it didn't mean jack shit.

Or do you want to tell me something spicy about Annie's skill ceiling now?

Team fight's "good".

1v1s are match-up dependent.

She's designed to murder squishies like mages and marksmen. Why would you walk into your own counter-pick? The point is to stop her blade dancing so she loses her resets, then knock her out before she can escape or get her cds back to try again. If you just put your back line champs on a platter...good...go get them all killed. You deserve it.

We have a ton of early to mid game fighters. Irelia's like one of the few fighters that aren't shit to play in the late game. Unless you want to retroactively make Gbay's analysis of fighters correct (again), I'd say stop whining for the sake of whining.

Lmao what does a heal spammer with the sole purpose of spamming W and Q know about mechanical skill? She had a higher skill ceiling before the rework and now she has a higher skill floor. They made her uninteresting because she can do everything. But whatever, I'll keep playing her for freelo and because shes all I know really.

chipndip1Nov 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Lmao what does a heal spammer with the sole purpose of spamming W and Q know about mechanical skill?

You've never even been above Plat before. I've been D3 for two seasons.

You can kindly hop off. I'm using the good old Diamond card at this point.

chipndip1Nov 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=I memba balance ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xoj748Rp,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-29T21:31:31.636+0000)

This is funny. You're proud of being Diamond literally by getting carried and playing heal bots that sit back and do jackfuck...You have literally no idea how to play lanes without being on a leash tethered to your master ADC. :)

This guy was the one calling out my champions first. How are you turning me when I didn't bring op.gg into the conversation until I had to respond to his ass?
All I see is a salty plat player who's a whole 1.5 tiers under me, making excuses for why he's barking up with his underdog ass instead of getting better at the game so he can be Diamond with his own style of play.

Moody PNov 29, 20181 votes

why don't you play support and get diamond then?

chipndip1Nov 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=I memba balance ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xoj748Rp,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2018-11-30T01:50:19.272+0000)

lol. i have a 60% winrate in ranked using a champion that gets dumpstered by what is meta currently toplane. pretty sure i could get to Diamond if i actually played a lot of ranked lmao.

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.259171945.7335/flat,550x550,075,f.u2.jpg

Oakleaf RangerNov 29, 20183 votes

Old Irelia was definitely not fair lul.

I like current Irelia and I don't even play her because old irelia was aids that you either could fight pre/post sheen or couldn't and had stay the fuck away from.

chipndip1Nov 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

B) Except she isn’t. Perfectly average win rate with a decent pick rate. You can’t balance off of people’s “feeling” that’s she’s unfair; that doesn’t create balance, it creates bias.

Oh, I see you haven't realized this is exactly what Gameplay has turned into. It went from "Gameplay and Balance" to "Game play nice with my feelings".

GayFluffyUnicornNov 29, 20184 votes

Yeah how dare people want to have fun in a VIDEOGAME and actual counterplay and not theoretical counterplay.

chipndip1Nov 29, 20184 votes

Stop stalking my posts to say asinine bullshit. It's a balance discussion about a competitive game. If you want to play Mario Party, go play Mario Party.

Sundaddy97Nov 29, 20182 votes

Donkey Kong has a bigger hitbox then the rest of the characters Fundamentally Broken*[sg-janna]*

AyzevNov 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

she was reworked because her telekinetic blade wielder fantasy didn’t exist. Her one interesting ability that captured it, her q...

How does a simple dash capture her telekinetic blade wielder fantasy?

GayFluffyUnicornNov 29, 20184 votes

Don't bother he can only repeat what the riot overmind tells him.

Kinda like the people who never played as or against aatrox and just repeat everything riot said to rework him totally ignoring that if that's the case literally every ADC needs a rework.

chipndip1Nov 29, 20186 votes

It doesn't. Not in a vacuum.

Old Irelia was pretty much just a dash. New Irelia has a more fleshed out and involved game play pattern which pushes the whole "blade dancer" theme.

AyzevNov 29, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Old Irelia's Q was just a dash

...that one could reset.

Now it's... a dash... that you can reset... but more often.

How does either version tie into the theme of flying blades?

Her other abilities may fit, but definitely not this one. Even pre-rework everything else she had was a better thematic fit than her Q. Because why would you want to melee when using flying swords? It becomes effectively the same as just holding one in your hand.

chipndip1Nov 29, 20183 votes

{quoted}

...that one could reset.

On kill, meaning that, in team fights, you pretty much dashed one or two times, then AA'd people the entire fight.

Now it's... a dash... that you can reset... but more often.

Because the point of the character is to "dance on the battlefield". Spamming AA's isn't really doing that, now is it?

How does either version tie into the theme of flying blades?

She flies with the blades more often now, and her other abilities incorporate her doing things with the blades to flesh out the rest of the fantasy.

If you look at one move in a vacuum, you can pick it apart all you want. The point is to look at the kit as a whole.

AyzevNov 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

If you look at one move in a vacuum, you can pick it apart all you want. The point is to look at the kit as a whole.

Well, that's not exactly the point the dude I originally replied to made. Nor did he talk about the blade dancer aspect, he only mentioned flying blades.

SirGankNov 29, 20183 votes

Avantel is actually correct in this. It's fine to be on the other side of the fence on whether you prefer her old kit or her new kit, but the reason she was reworked was stated explicitly.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Irelia/Development

Quote: "Irelia has long been very high on our list of champions with huge untapped potential, and players have been requesting it more now as well. Her thematic fantasy promises a highly agile warrior that uses multiple telekinetic blades to vanquish her foes. Yet, outside of her ultimate, she doesn't really have any abilities that are delivering on that fantasy, and even her current ult falls a bit flat compared to modern champion designs. Her kit is very reliable, which leads to uninteresting stat checks and makes her more snowball reliant than she should be."

And whether people want to believe it or not, it was true. When I started league and I was making that decision on who to spend my fat stack of IP on first, Irelia was high on the list cuz I fell in love with her thematic. When I saw her game play though, I was dissatisfied. I chose Riven over her as a result and I had revisited her till later. I did love playing her a lot but it was obvious her kit was unhealthy. Once you got rolling there really wasn't any out playing her. You simply got stat checked.

With her new kit, there is room to out play her and there is room for better skill expression while retaining the iconic part of her kit : Q resets. Adding another way to reset was something people asked for (obviously if you didn't ask for it, you aren't among those people and that's ok). Removing that now would push her more into what she was before, playing for the stats rather than the marks.

I think pushing to nerf her W or Ult is the best direction for Rito as those are the parts of her kit that creates the most problems. W reduces a LOT of damage making her play like a low risk assasin. The cd nerf is likely to give you more opportunity to fight her and to slow her wave clear pre tiamat. They can probably go a little heavier on it but they'll have to see how it goes. The ult is another good place they can nerf cuz it has very strong utility for team fights and for Irelia to do damage.

BestPudgeNANov 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

People complaining about Irelia’s reset marks don’t seem to get the reason why she was reworked in the first place.

And no, you don’t want to remove the central feature of a champion, because then they become bland. You take off power from other areas, so that when a champion is played well, they still have their strength, but when they are played poorly, you can capitalize on it and punish them.

Old Irelia didn't reset on champs at all basically, Old Irelia had a slow an a situational stun New Irelia has 2 Massive AoE resets with CC Old Irelia was a 1 v 1 split pushing monster that was mostly worthless in teamfights and had a weak early game. New Irelia is a 1 v 1 split pushing monster that's an S-tier teamfighter and has the strongest early game of any melee champ in the game. Old Irelia played a lot like Xin Zhao. New Irelia plays like Yasuo+Kayn's KappaPride love child after snorting a line. Old Irelia was reworked because she was too "stat checky" due to her true damage, heavy mix of magic damage and basically everything being point and click. New Irelia has even more True damage because of the Conq rune. But it did get rid of the fully point and click part

Iota ThetaNov 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Old Irelia didn't reset on champs at all basically, Old Irelia had a slow an a situational stun

It only reset on kills, Q-kill a minion -> Q your target -> Auto to death, throw in the stun if you end up with less health than them, the stun that discourages fighting a fighter in any way.

New Irelia has 2 Massive AoE resets with CC

Two resets that come at the cost of being skillshots that need set up.

Old Irelia was reworked because she was too "stat checky" due to her true damage, heavy mix of magic damage and basically everything being point and click.

Well she was, and fairly binary. If she got a Sheen, then Trinity there was little point in fighting her, since you couldn’t avoid any of her damage except maybe R, and R wasn’t even that powerful.

New Irelia has even more True damage because of the Conq rune. But it did get rid of the fully point and click part

Can’t fault new Irelia for that if it’s not a part of her kit. Every champ can take that rune, it’s nothing innate to only Irelia. Poor argument.

SangreDeNocheNov 29, 20183 votes

[deleted]

BestPudgeNANov 29, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Mandatory dumbass mod spotted.

Rip you just got a 3 day :(

That mod just trolls at this point. Nobody that actually plays the game thinks Irelia is balanced

Z3SleeperNov 29, 201817 votes

This kind of nerf follows their current balance philosophy though: nerf defense & keep damage high

Beast BrawlerNov 29, 20187 votes

Garbage philosophy.

Hayaishi2Nov 28, 201813 votes

Because if you remove anything from this champion it stops working. Irelia's fate is to be gutted into unviability because Riot can't design.

macspamNov 29, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Because if you remove anything from this champion it stops working. Irelia's fate is to be gutted into unviability because Riot can't design.

or just let her be yasuo's waifu and one of the most banned champs for 5 years or whatever

saltranNov 29, 20182 votes

I mean, Yasuo is hated and hot, Irelia is hated and hot, I can see it.

ValyrianBladeNov 29, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Once again you're nerfing the wrong skill or mechanic on a champion. The simple truth is Irelia has a completely overloaded kit. Tell me why she gets 200 attack range which by the way, is the HIGHEST out of all "Melee" champions. Tell me why she can auto me as GP and walk away before i can even retaliate with an auto attack because she outranges me by 75. Why does she get to stack her passive and Conquerer on minions to fuck me into oblivion at lvl 3 if she hits her E so she can dash to me twice with Ignite and kill me? Why does she have 2 ways of marking champions for resets on her Q as well as a 3rd option of reset on killing the Q'ed target? You honestly think the W cooldown and the amount of damage reduction she got were the main issues behind this disaster of balance?

I hadn't read the update yet.

I came here expecting the nerf to be anything BUT to her W. Then I read that it is her W.

Nope, don't agree with you at all here. Yes, Irelia has insane damage and is too reliable at applying it. Yes, that's annoying to play against.

Except the problem with Irelia is that when she goes in at a bad time, she isn't punished enough for it. She hits W and takes little to no damage and wastes all of your big cooldowns that were used out of panic, then resumes to killing everyone.

Remove her W entirely, and Irelia isn't a problem anymore. She can still snowball and get fed, but would actually need to build defense (outside of GA) (which would lower her damage output), say trinity force into full tank like other bruisers, or continue building offense but relying on making smart decisions to not die.

The most annoying thing about Irelia is that she can engage 1v5 as a full damage champion, eat 3-5 of your ultimates, and still be over 30% health to then reset through your whole team and win the fight. Most true tanks can't survive that much focus for as long as she does.

Now - the W nerf on the PBE isn't nearly enough. 40% damage reduction instead of 50% is hardly a nerf when she's surviving with over 30% health, not under 20%. That skill doesn't belong at all on her kit in the first place, and her W channel should be more like Master Yi's (i.e. a heal that can be interrupted by CC) followed by a skillshot slow at the end. The damage reduction with CC immunity is simply TOO STRONG with her all in kit. If they absolutely must keep it the base should go down to around 20-30% - but I really think she needs the CC immunity removed to give it counterplay.

Her Q, E, and R, though? Pretty sure they're fine. Q with resets was always a thing. E and R were both made to revolve around that more. R can be dodged, it's not overly hard to hit, but you can flash it and punish her heavily for it (oh crap, unless she has her W). E can be dodged and isn't that easy to hit at all. It's pretty dumb that she can kill most champions once she does manage to hit a single E, but again without her W most of those champions would probably have killed her before she landed the E.

I'm all for high skill cap champions, and from the times I've played Irelia on ARAMs (and not done well) I would surely say she's a high skill cap. Except that W is just stupid.

It's the right place to nerf in my books. Just wish the nerf was a lot bigger. Riot favors their reworked champions way too heavily - they get to stay OP for several patches then when they receive nerfs they're small and they remain top-tier. Meanwhile loads of older champions barely see 1-2 patches in the spotlight before being hard-nerfed to tier 4 or lower.

Neptunia xoxoNov 29, 20183 votes

Honestly at this point I was expecting yet again a nerf in the wrong place and I'm not shocked at all. When pro players are even complaining about her passive and mobility yet still nothing is done about it (-5 MS lol) I can't really be asked.

SgtAwesomenessNov 29, 20182 votes

to be honest i think a slight base damage nerf with the W nerf is what she needs,

if she wants to be tanky she should build it

if she wants to be damage she should build it

PapugaNov 29, 20185 votes

{quoted}

to be honest i think a slight base damage nerf with the W nerf is what she needs,

if she wants to be tanky she should build it

if she wants to be damage she should build it

I previously discussed Irelia with another poster and we agreed on the fact that what we don't like is how much sustain Irelia has. She needed it in her old kit since she was less mobile and had no defensive tools except a sometimes stun. With her new mobility and W damage reduction we felt that removing the heal off Q would curb her strength.

Bad trades would be more punching. Using W properly and not just throwing it out more rewarding. It would force her to take ravenous hunter and taste of blood if she wanted sustain rather than the resolve tree making her even tanker and harder to trade with. And finally it would diversify her builds somewhat. Want to heal? Need to build Death's dance or ravenous hydra. Want to be tankier but forgo healing? Titanic plus trinity. These choices could further be accentuate with lower base damages and compensated througj increased scaling.

And of course, remove the magic damage passive. They did it for Darius and others, do it for Irelia too. It's just silly. She already has her bonus damage to shield. No need to make tanks even sadder with mixed damage.

McsquzzyNov 28, 20181 votes

Riot will do to her, what they did to Caitlyn. Where they needed everything else but found her still dominant, nerd the issue people have then she will be forgotten. If it was anyone else beside Irelia since the nerfrelia meme must live on. Until we get an April fools skin.