Riven "Nerfs" lol. Still a permaban for me chief cuz this ain't it.

I memba balance ·May 2, 2019·109 votes·21,742 views

Lol. Here we are finally at Patch 9.10 where Riven has changes listed. She has been consistently the most played Toplaner while also having an incredibly high winrate for a supposed "high skill" champion for quite a long time. After months and months of posts about how broken and cancerous she is how does the Riot Balance Team respond? Adding 4 seconds to her E (big fuck, she rushes to cap her CDR anyway) and they are giving her a compensation buff to her Q cooldown......You're an actual fucking joke Riot. Here I was actually looking forward to seeing what you guys had planned for her seeing as she hasn't been nerfed since SEASON FUCKING 5 and you go ahead and give her nothing more than a little slap on the wrist, if that. Try again idiots.

Sincerely,

The last of the remaining Toplane Mains who don't abuse Riven.

188 Comments

DarkTree1May 2, 201953 votes

COMPENSATION BUFFING RIVEN https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/290/942/c31.png

9mm ValentineMay 2, 201947 votes

Also, why are they fucking lowering her Q cd?....

I memba balance May 2, 201921 votes

Riot Games- "because blah blah blah she is under our line of OP and is only a Western Problem blah blah blah we don't have anybody on staff that actually plays Top so we don't know what the fuck we're doing blah blah blah Riven's one of the most popular champions blah blah need to sell skins blah blah Prestige Riven skin next blah blah"

CevradMay 2, 20192 votes

[deleted]

I memba balance May 2, 201910 votes

I understand that Patch 9.9 has only been out for a short time but through nearly 300 (287) games in Platinum+ in Korea, Riven has a 55.75% winrate. In Patch 9.8, Riven had a nearly 54% winrate in Platinum+ in Korea. my source for this information is U.GG which is a wonderful resource. Yeah, she sure seems like just a "western problem". Any other gems of knowledge that you'd like to throw out there?

lil kodaMay 2, 201912 votes

dont you know, whenever a champion is too strong, you obviously cant just nerf them, you HAVE to give compensation buffs for the illusion of a nerf.

I memba balance May 2, 20198 votes

Ah yes of course. Where is my head at...thank you for explaining it in a way that makes total sense. Now what will they do about Vladimir that will make it seem like a nerf but really it's a wash or buff?

lil kodaMay 2, 20195 votes

nerf his q cooldown early game, make it no cooldown late game

AlzonMay 2, 20195 votes

Or the illusion of a buff.

Case in point: TahmKench

SpaceRazzerKappaMay 2, 201918 votes

Couldn't have told better my self

Abibyama IIMay 2, 201910 votes

Imagine thinking that making her rank 5 E CD the same as current rank 1 E is not a nerf.

Imagine thinking that even going 45% CDR the rank 5 E going from 3.6 seconds to 6 seconds is not a nerf.

Imagine thinking that "compensation" buffs on her Q which will be like 1 sec with 45% CDR will matter at all.

Imagine calling this a slap on the wrist.

Imagine being OP

I memba balance May 2, 201937 votes

Imagine getting your own stats wrong and inflating the CD to 6 seconds and putting it in bold when it's 5.5 seconds. so a whopping 1.9 seconds is being added to her E. holy fuck what will you do? lmao Riven's healthbar might actually take some of the Death's Dance "bleed effect" now instead of her dumping it all onto her spammable shield? get fucking real dude. And as for her Q cooldown which is currently a flat 13 seconds at all ranks, with 45% CDR it's taken down to 7.15 seconds. So now with max rank Q and 45% CDR she will have her Q cooldown also at 5.5 seconds. It's already at the point where if spaced correctly a Riven can permanently have her Q up with max CDR. This literally just opens the window for quicker spam on parts of the Q by 1.65 seconds. It is literally a wash on CD's. It's not even a slap on the wrist. It's a fucking joke as stated in my original post.

Light BurnerMay 2, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=I memba balance ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-05-02T02:18:17.854+0000)

Imagine getting your own stats wrong and inflating the CD to 6 seconds and putting it in bold when it's 5.5 seconds. so a whopping 1.9 seconds is being added to her E. holy fuck what will you do? lmao Riven's healthbar might actually take some of the Death's Dance "bleed effect" now instead of her dumping it all onto her spammable shield? get fucking real dude. And as for her Q cooldown which is currently a flat 13 seconds at all ranks, with 45% CDR it's taken down to 7.15 seconds. So now with max rank Q and 45% CDR she will have her Q cooldown also at 5.5 seconds. It's already at the point where if spaced correctly a Riven can permanently have her Q up with max CDR. This literally just opens the window for quicker spam on parts of the Q by 1.65 seconds. It is literally a wash on CD's. It's not even a slap on the wrist. It's a fucking joke as stated in my original post.

the boards are useless -Riot Games

MalignMetalMay 2, 20191 votes

At least we can recognize garbage changes before they happen.

DisembarkMay 2, 20193 votes

Just not true. Boards are absolutely awful at analyzing changes. They think champions will be shit when they're OP. They think they'll be OP because of X change when they continue to be shit. Prime example being Lucians W "lul" nerf which dropped him from 53% and pick/ban in competitive to 51% and situational in competitive. Or how Grave's 3 AD nerf "was a slap on the wrist" but dropped his win rate by 3%.

HenryDaHenMay 2, 201910 votes

top lane is dead. No 1 wants to play tank because of conquerer with true damage with healing playable on ranged champions. No 1 wants to play bruiser because everything dies in 1 shot with 1 stun Hence the only thing left is ranged top like vayne and riven players. GG just quit. Top lane play rate drops the higher elo u go

IP MasquerenaMay 2, 20192 votes

Care to provide a list?

All top lane lists I checked have 5 melee as top 5 most played top laners, those being Irelia, Jax and Riven being the always top 3, just the order differs, with the other 2 being taken from the pool of Darius, Urgot, Boots....I mean Belt...wait no, Renekton was his name? Akali and Fiora, all being D+ lists, just depends on region. Sometimes a ranged gets at 6th most played, Jayce, but usually the ranged ones are from pos 7 and above, one list had the 1st ranged as Vlad on pos 10. Lists based on pick rates not "YouTube preference".

ValknutMay 2, 20199 votes

I only play Janna instead of something I can carry with bot lane if one circumstance is met. An that is when I have a riven top with a decent win record. She is so god damn broken in solo que, and tanky as f*** with her own kit, adding in Jannas AD/shield just pushes it so far past anything anyone can deal with.

AseraanMay 2, 20199 votes

-5 ms

MysticShakerMay 2, 20197 votes

Buffing dmg instead of survivality. Welcome to Lol 2019

TS MediaMay 2, 20196 votes

I'm sorry, but 4 seconds is a big fucking nerf to her E. You people bitched about not minding her doing damage if you were able to kill her. Her E, with 45% CDR, being on 6 seconds from about 3 isn't huge enough for you? Imagine not being able to please the masses...

General Esdeath May 2, 20197 votes

[{quoted}](name=TS Media,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-02T02:17:54.202+0000)

I'm sorry, but 4 seconds is a big fucking nerf to her E. You people bitched about not minding her doing damage if you were able to kill her. Her E, with 45% CDR, being on 6 seconds from about 3 isn't huge enough for you? Imagine not being able to please the masses...

Welcome to the boards, where the points made don't matter because everyone is circle jerking something new this month. Her last buff was June 18th in patch 8.13 and it's R cooldown reduced, which isn't the problem in lane nowadays. Her Q was buffed in season 7...so...I don't think Riven is the issue here.

If item 3161 only we knew what was causing her to seem OP right now

I memba balance May 2, 201910 votes

And on the same note that you're choosing to plug with her last buff being from Patch 8.13, her last fucking nerf was patch 5.21. nearly 4 full seaons of not directly nerfing that disgusting champ that fills the higher ranks with one tricks more than any other champion. Spear of Shojin is a massive issue, but Riven without Spear is a problem. Black Cleaver, Death's Dance and whatever the fuck else you want to build and she is unkillable while also one shotting squishies. Can't chase her down and can't run from her and can't duel her.

General Esdeath May 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=I memba balance ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T02:32:41.153+0000)

And on the same note that you're choosing to plug with her last buff being from Patch 8.13, her last fucking nerf was patch 5.21. nearly 4 full seaons of not directly nerfing that disgusting champ that fills the higher ranks with one tricks more than any other champion. Spear of Shojin is a massive issue, but Riven without Spear is a problem. Black Cleaver, Death's Dance and whatever the fuck else you want to build and she is unkillable while also one shotting squishies. Can't chase her down and can't run from her and can't duel her.

Maybe you didn't read it, but she hasn't been touched with balance since 8.13

What changed between then and now? Not her, so clearly something else is making her strong. We should be looking at that.

TalinisMay 2, 201910 votes

{quoted} Welcome to the boards, where the points made don't matter because everyone is circle jerking something new this month. Her last buff was >June 18th in patch 8.13 and it's R cooldown reduced, which isn't the problem in lane nowadays. Her Q was buffed in season 7...so...I don't think >Riven is the issue here.

{quoted}

Maybe you didn't read it, but she hasn't been touched with balance since 8.13

What changed between then and now? Not her, so clearly something else is making her strong. We should be looking at that.

These are really thick comments because whether or not a champion is changed directly does not mean a champion is or isn't overpowered or under-powered. Changing items, other champions, runes, towers, etc etc all have effects on a champions power level.

For example, if over time, Riven went untouched but all other champions were nerfed by 20% because "too much damage" and riven now had a 65% win rate as a result is she:

A: overpowered and in need of nerfs or B: fine because she wasn't changed in 2 years

Come on bro. Champions like Fizz get this all the time and he at least has clear weaknesses unlike riven.

General Esdeath May 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

These are really thick comments because whether or not a champion is changed directly does not mean a champion is or isn't overpowered or under-powered. Changing items, other champions, runes, towers, etc etc all have effects on a champions power level.

Exactly why I don't understand people asking for her to be nerfed when the items are problematic on other champions too

For example, if over time, Riven went untouched but all other champions were nerfed by 20% because "too much damage" and riven now had a 65% win rate as a result is she:

A: overpowered and in need of nerfs or B: fine because she wasn't changed in 2 years

That's a big difference since one is a global change, like runes reforged giving all champs armor/MR

Come on bro. Champions like Fizz get this all the time and he at least has clear weaknesses unlike riven.

Riven has low HP regen, high cooldowns early, and a small HP pool.

MalignMetalMay 2, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Riven has low HP regen, high cooldowns early, and a small HP pool.

Mordekaiser get fuked she does Hp5= 4 maxes out at 6. Riven starts at 7. Lowest HP pool of any melee champ @18. She doesn't have high cooldowns don't delude yourself

General Esdeath May 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

get fuked she does Hp5= 4 maxes out at 6. Riven starts at 7. Lowest HP pool of any melee champ @18.

You're comparing Morde stats to Riven, all I'm getting is that Morde is a squishy boy. Does that mean Ivern isn't weak because TahmKench is worse?

She doesn't have high cooldowns don't delude yourself

Q - 13 seconds all ranks W - 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 seconds E - 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 seconds

Let's look at Morde

Q - 10 / 8.5 / 7 / 5.5 / 4 seconds W - 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 E - 6 / 5.75 / 5.5 / 5.25 / 5

So I guess Riven has very high cooldowns since Morde's are shorter.

Romans VI XXIIIMay 2, 20195 votes

Q - 13 seconds all ranks W - 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 seconds E - 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 seconds

Q CD Starts the MOMENT she casts the first part.

Rivens FIRST 2 items give her 30% CDR: item 3071 item 3812

Mords Core items are: item 3116 item 3151

Rarely gets to 20% CDR, if even 10% CDR.

All of a sudden those CDs are pretty damn LOW.

Q - 13 seconds > 7.8s W - 7 seconds > 4.2s E - 7 seconds > 4.2s

YIKES!

General Esdeath May 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=000400000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-02T19:33:32.719+0000)

Q CD Starts the MOMENT she casts the first part.

Rivens FIRST 2 items give her 30% CDR:

6500 gold. Are you telling me she's gonna buy those at the start? Noooooo it's gonna take quite a while. Sounds like her early game is when she has high cooldowns, as I said.

MalignMetalMay 2, 20192 votes

If you had to give a number about how much time you have left after you cast all her Q's. That would be a more accurate representation of her Cooldown. Hence my claim that its actually low.

General Esdeath May 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you had to give a number about how much time you have left after you cast all her Q's. That would be a more accurate representation of her Cooldown. Hence my claim that its actually low.

I guess Nasus, Renekton, and Mundo are on low cooldowns too since the cast starts and the cooldown counts down while the ability keeps going

MalignMetalMay 2, 20192 votes

Only 1 of which has a mobility spell and that's actually tied to a resource. You attempt to deflect is depressing.

Romans VI XXIIIMay 2, 20192 votes

Riven has low HP regen, high cooldowns early, and a small HP pool.

For compression:

Garen and Mundo start at 8 HP regen, Riven starts at 7, and has the same scaling/lvl as Garen. (.5 and Mundos is .75)

HP Pool Garen: 616 + 84 = 2044 at lvl 18 Mundo: 582 +89 = 2095 at lvl 18 Riv: 558 +86 = 2020 at lvl 18

Good one bud lol.

Glad to see a Diver/Duelist has the same HP regen, and HP pool as Juggernauts, but meh its "low" and "small". Guess we must buff Garen and Mundos HP and Regen.

General Esdeath May 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-02T16:53:26.190+0000)

For compression:

Garen and Mundo start at 8 HP regen, Riven starts at 7, and has the same scaling/lvl as Garen. (.5 and Mundos is .75)

HP Pool Garen: 616 + 84 = 2044 at lvl 18 Mundo: 582 +89 = 2095 at lvl 18 Riv: 558 +86 = 2020 at lvl 18

Good one bud lol.

Glad to see a Diver/Duelist has the same HP regen, and HP pool as Juggernauts, but meh its "low" and "small". Guess we must buff Garen and Mundos HP and Regen.

And which one of these champs builds tanky? Oh right...Garen and Mundo...which means they'll have even more....

Did you consider build? Did you also forget early game Garen and Mundo have HP regen passives? Meaning they can make more mistakes early? No? You didn't? Good one bud lol.

Romans VI XXIIIMay 2, 20194 votes

LOL, thats funny.

Yea when your proven WRONG lets start talking about OTHER points rather than the points u tried to make and failed at.

FACT: Riven has on par base HP and Regen as Garen and Mundo (see above) FACT: Riven is a Diver/Duelist FACT: Garen and Mundo are Juggernauts

Now ask your self who should have more innate sustain and durability? a Diver/Duelist or a Juggernaut?

Now seeing as comparing two different class abilities to each other is difficult, but lets not kid our selves by throwing in that Garen and Mundo have Regen passives without also including an AD scaling shield on Riven. And that Regen has Counter-play ability summoner 14 , where as SHIELDS do not, OR that Garens is pretty low sustain until he is lvl 11, AND that it can be stopped by simply hitting him so its useless in fights, OR that Mundos other abilities have HP costs.

So I think you will see that if you wanna get into this argument you will lose BADLY. lol

General Esdeath May 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=000400000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T19:26:31.298+0000)

LOL, thats funny.

Yea when your proven WRONG lets start talking about OTHER points rather than the points u tried to make and failed at.

Wrong? No, I just realized you actually don't know how League of Legends works and scales. This isn't an RPG battle, stats change throughout the game.

FACT: Riven has on par base HP and Regen as Garen and Mundo (see above)

With no items

FACT: Riven is a Diver/Duelist

Depending on build

FACT: Garen and Mundo are Juggernauts

Which means they build different items, Riven can also get a juggernaut build.

Now ask your self who should have more innate sustain and durability? a Diver/Duelist or a Juggernaut?

Should or will? There's a big difference. Tanks SHOULD have more durability, but their items don't grant much in terms of sustain unless you have warmogs and frankly both champs are better off without it because of their passive, but their passive isn't that much in certain stages of the game.

Now seeing as comparing two different class abilities to each other is difficult, but lets not kid our selves by throwing in that Garen and Mundo have Regen passives without also including an AD scaling shield on Riven. And that Regen has Counter-play ability , where as SHIELDS do not, OR that Garens is pretty low sustain until he is lvl 11, AND that it can be stopped by simply hitting him so its useless in fights, OR that Mundos other abilities have HP costs.

Her shield scales with AD because if it scaled with HP then we'd see tank riven again, and nobody wants that. Like, nobody at all. It's not fun to play, not fun to play against, and it's a balance nightmare.

So I think you will see that if you wanna get into this argument you will lose BADLY. lol

My man you've already shown you don't know how League works, I think I can rest my case.

Romans VI XXIIIMay 2, 20193 votes

Everything you just said is a 2 way street.

With no items

Yea exactly I compared the BASE stats with no items of which RIVEN is on par with GAREN and MUNDO, FACT. you really think Riven gets no HP items?????? item 3071 item 3161

You stated she has a LOW HP POOL and LOW REGEN, I disproved this with FACTS. Simple as that.

Depending on build

Riven is designed to be a Diver/Duelist, FACT. Garen and Mundo are designed to be Juggernauts, FACT. What they build in game may affect how they play for THAT game, but it does not change the CORE FACT of what Class they are. Riven should build like a Diver/Duelist and Garen/Mundo should build like a juggernaut. But I think we both agree it may not be Riven 100%, and more of an issue with an Item. item 3161 . Which has broken alot of champions, specially ones that have always been problem child's. Riven Jax .

Which means they build different items, Riven can also get a juggernaut build.

And Mundo and Garen can go AD Crit builds, it doesn't mean its good strong, or reliable. Like I said before. What 1 person may build for a single game out of thousands does not change the FACT that Riven is designed around being a Diver/Duelist and Garen/Mundo are design around being Juggernauts.

Her shield scales with AD because if it scaled with HP then we'd see tank riven again, and nobody wants that. Like, nobody at all. It's not fun to play, not fun to play against, and it's a balance nightmare.

Did I say anything about changing how it scales? No, I actually WANT it to scale with AD cause it fits into what she should be build. I Simply pointed out MORE FACTS around the counter-play ability of Rivens Sustain vs Garen and Mundos Sustain. Please read and comprehend.

item 3161 and item 3124 should be removed or reworked, there passives completely break some champions. And have lead to a lot of unbalance since their release.

General Esdeath May 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T20:43:24.826+0000)

Everything you just said is a 2 way street.

1

Yea exactly I compared the BASE stats with no items of which RIVEN is on par with GAREN and MUNDO, FACT. you really think Riven gets no HP items??????

You stated she has a LOW HP POOL and LOW REGEN, I disproved this with FACTS. Simple as that.

2

Riven is designed to be a Diver/Duelist, FACT. Garen and Mundo are designed to be Juggernauts, FACT. What they build in game may affect how they play for THAT game, but it does not change the CORE FACT of what Class they are. Riven should build like a Diver/Duelist and Garen/Mundo should build like a juggernaut. But I think we both agree it may not be Riven 100%, and more of an issue with an Item. . Which has broken alot of champions, specially ones that have always been problem child's. .

3

And Mundo and Garen can go AD Crit builds, it doesn't mean its good strong, or reliable. Like I said before. What 1 person may build for a single game out of thousands does not change the FACT that Riven is designed around being a Diver/Duelist and Garen/Mundo are design around being Juggernauts.

4

Did I say anything about changing how it scales? No, I actually WANT it to scale with AD cause it fits into what she should be build. I Simply pointed out MORE FACTS around the counter-play ability of Rivens Sustain vs Garen and Mundos Sustain. Please read and comprehend.

and should be removed or reworked, there passives completely break some champions. And have lead to a lot of unbalance since their release.

TL;DR

Someone asked for her weakness, it's her early game HP regen, HP pool, and high cooldowns

Your choice if you abuse those or let her go late game

Romans VI XXIIIMay 2, 20195 votes

You just don't get it do you?

Lvl 1

Garen 8HP Regen Mundo 8HP Regen Riven 7 HP Regen <---- Damn Thats LOW.

NO THIS IS LOW Mord 4 HP Regen Aatrox 3 HP Regen

Garen 616 HP Mundo 582 HP Riven 558 HP <----- Damn thats LOW.

NO THIS IS LOW Kled 400 HP Gnar 510 HP

pickcollinsMay 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=000400000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T19:26:31.298+0000)

LOL, thats funny.

Yea when your proven WRONG lets start talking about OTHER points rather than the points u tried to make and failed at.

FACT: Riven has on par base HP and Regen as Garen and Mundo (see above) FACT: Riven is a Diver/Duelist FACT: Garen and Mundo are Juggernauts

Now ask your self who should have more innate sustain and durability? a Diver/Duelist or a Juggernaut?

Now seeing as comparing two different class abilities to each other is difficult, but lets not kid our selves by throwing in that Garen and Mundo have Regen passives without also including an AD scaling shield on Riven. And that Regen has Counter-play ability , where as SHIELDS do not, OR that Garens is pretty low sustain until he is lvl 11, AND that it can be stopped by simply hitting him so its useless in fights, OR that Mundos other abilities have HP costs.

So I think you will see that if you wanna get into this argument you will lose BADLY. lol

Since when have HP costs for abilities, especially on Mundo, ever been significant enough to make a champion unsustainable in lane.

Romans VI XXIIIMay 2, 20193 votes

Did I say that? Please READ and COMPREHEND.

I memba balance May 2, 201922 votes

3.6 seconds to 5.5. my god.... an additional 1.9 seconds. what the fuck will you do?! THE HORROR. And that's not including if she has Spear of Shojin

Sp33d Zer0May 2, 20194 votes

These right here is the comment that shows you really don't know what you are talking about.

Do you not comprehend how big almost 2 seconds on the thing that lets her abuse Deaths dance so hard is AND the thing that makes her so tanky?

Do you not comprehend how much more room there is to abuse her in lane with a 4 second increased cooldown?

Does none of this click for you?

IfnethMay 3, 20192 votes

Let’s say that Riven is fighting you up close and all-in during lane, with you having 100 AD and 1.0 AS, and she having 50 Armor. In 1.9 seconds, you could land 2 basic attacks, dealing 200 damage before and 130 damage after armor. That’s 130 less HP for Riven. Also, depending on cooldowns, she might not shield one of your spells, losing even more.

Despite the Q compensation buffs, this nerf alone lowered her op.gg winrate from 53.2% to 51.8%—from 1st winrate to 11th. As the patch continues, her stats might fall further as players move toward safer picks.

OHminusMay 2, 20196 votes

Riven : Sword is broken but I'm even more so xd