It means dive fighters will still be somewhat effective for 6 months longer and not end up so awkward like talon or like Rengar and Kha having their fundamental issues amplified.
Also INB4 Darius and/or Illalio break a new tank item while the tanks getting reworked are dependent on it to be effective.
dominusx1 votesIf the tank rework doesnt overload the current tanks with cc Darius and Illaoi will become meta picks because they bust tanks for breakfast. Hell even garen might become usefull. edit: well you could call em meta picks rn aswell but dunno.
ChaddyFantome1 votesawkward like talon
Talon is super good right now. I have no clue what you mean.
Edge of Daybreak1 votesTalon is super good right now. I have no clue what you mean.
Post lethality buffs. The rework left him and zed in a pretty bad place. Now they are arguably too strong with the item buffs.
ChaddyFantome2 votesPost lethality buffs. The rework left him and zed in a pretty bad place. Now they are arguably too strong with the item buffs.
Talon was good before the lethality buffs. It was lethality that was weak making his not live up to his potential. Kit-wise, Talon is very powerful as long as the player knows what they are doing. I suggest practicing him instead of blindy running at people an mashing all your buttons expecting a kill, failing, and then proceeding to claim "he is gutted and clunky".
Season 3 Talon main here. The rework did nothing but good for the guy.
Edge of Daybreak1 votesTalon was good before the lethality buffs. It was lethality that was weak making his not live up to his potential. Kit-wise, Talon is very powerful as long as the player knows what they are doing. I suggest practicing him instead of blindy running at people an mashing all your buttons expecting a kill, failing, and then proceeding to claim "he is gutted and clunky".
Season 3 Talon main here. The rework did nothing but good for the guy.
No he really wasn't. A less than 50% winrate with less players than pre rework meant that his mains were losing more often and he had less players in general. The issue was he was more or less forced into a lethality build when lethality was awful because a champion who relies on early snowballing having to build a stat that pays off late game makes 0 sense.
His kit is fine for a roamer but not really for laning against anything ranged as your opponent has to massively fuck up for you to ever kill them.
As for the rest of that are you actually trying to claim i don't know what i'm doing? I am playing against gold and plat while you are scrubbing against silver and low gold I wish my opponents were anywhere near as awful as yours.
Season 2 Talon main here. The rework left him in a bad spot strength wise but kit was way healthier.
ChaddyFantome2 votesNo he really wasn't. A less than 50% winrate
He has a 54% winrate with players with at least 50 or so games with him. The low winrate was due to people playing him because he was "new" and had a wall hop ad said players not knowing wtf they were doing.
Winrates don't mean shit by themselves.
His kit is fine for a roamer but not really for laning against anything ranged as your opponent has to massively fuck up for you to ever kill them.
How is this any different from before his rework?
As for the rest of that are you actually trying to claim i don't know what i'm doing? I am playing against gold and plat while you are scrubbing against silver and low gold I wish my opponents were anywhere near as awful as yours.
Cute
Season 2 Talon main here. The rework left him in a bad spot strength wise but kit was way healthier.
That statement is a damn oxymoron. His kit isn't actually weaker. Factually it is stronger and healthier, and any feelings of "weakness" you perceive are merely due to your inability to adapt and the weak state lethality was in. That said, Talon was far from outright bad. In the hands of someone who even had so much as a clue what they were doing.
His kit is perfectly solid. What about his kit actually make shim "weak"? Please explain. And before you begin, no, him "being able to do X or Y before the rework and now not being able to is not a evident of such. that is evident of you being unable to adapt.
Edge of Daybreak1 votesHe has a 54% winrate with players with at least 50 or so games with him. The low winrate was due to people playing him because he was "new" and had a wall hop ad said players not knowing wtf they were doing.
POST BUFFS HE HAS A 54% Talon had a <50% winrate pre lethality buffs that's what i'm trying to get through to you. A champion whose played by less players with a winrate below 50% is a sign that things are not going well. This <50% winrate was after things settled and new players stopped playing him. He ended up having less players now than he did pre rework which means people who used to play talon actually stopped.
Winrates don't mean shit by themselves.
HIS PLAYRATE DROPPED TOO! Did you not even read my post I'm fairly sure you didn't but I'll keep trying to get you to understand.
How is this any different from before his rework?
Pre rework Talon had a much stronger actual laning phase vs skillshot reliant mages. Coupled with almost instant 100-0 burst that dealt greater AOE damage. His roaming is far stronger now due to parkour and old talon's roaming can never compare to that.
That statement is a damn oxymoron. His kit isn't actually weaker. Factually it is stronger and healthier, and any feelings of "weakness" you perceive are merely due to your inability to adapt and the weak state lethality was in. That said, Talon was far from outright bad. In the hands of someone who even had so much as a clue what they were doing.
His kit is perfectly solid. What about his kit actually make shim "weak"? Please explain. And before you begin, no, him "being able to do X or Y before the rework and now not being able to is not a evident of such. that is evident of you being unable to adapt.
No it isn't a kit being healthy and a champion being strong are not the same thing. Talon's new kit is healthier for his opponents and it gives riot a way to change him but it did make him weaker than pre rework. Healthier yes weaker also YES. Feelings dont matter it iss a fact. You are trying to argue against data that you probably didn't even research and the fact that stripping away AOE damage for single target damage in a teamfight does in fact make your kit slightly weaker than when you had similar single target damage but with more AOE. His kit is weaker than before period. If you have been a Talon player from season 3 you would know this. He wasn't outright bad post rework but he wasn't that great. The kit wasn't why he was doing poorly it sucked that you rely on your laner being an idiot but what hurt was the lethality items. Surprise surprise they buffed the items and bam 54% winrate.
I'll try to simplify it best I can for you. Kit isn't bad but it is weaker than the previous one. His items sucked so he wasnt that good. His items got buffed so now he is good. I am trying to explain to you why he was not good before the lethality changes. Talon pre lethality. Not great. Talon post lethality. Damn strong.
ChaddyFantome1 votesPOST BUFFS HE HAS A 54% Talon had a <50% winrate pre lethality buffs
No i am talkign before lethality buffs.
HIS PLAYRATE DROPPED TOO! Did you not even read my post I'm fairly sure you didn't but I'll keep trying to get you to understand.
His playrate saw a huge increase when the rework came out and then petered otu after the LOLPARKOUR hype died down. I said this already. Only one not paying attention is you.
Pre rework Talon had a much stronger actual laning phase vs skillshot reliant mages.
So it is just "lol he is different because no blink" then? Okay. i didn't expect anythign more than that. Thanks for letting me know so i dont have to give you anymore benefit of the doubt and continue wasting my time.
Coupled with almost instant 100-0 burst that dealt greater AOE damage.
He still can do that once he gets rolling and his passive gives him far greater multi-kill potential even compared to his old incarnation, makes him a better duelist as well, and can contribute to fights more consistently and directly even when not deleting someone because of it.
His roaming is far stronger now due to parkour and old talon's roaming can never compare to that.
Forget just roaming. his in and Out of combat mobility is infinitely better than before, wheras Talon was borderline immobile before his rework.
Fighting in the jungle is amazing as Talon now, being able to chase, dodge skillshots zip around someone from a different angle while jumping in and out of the fight.
Get Exhausted? Just try back off and then go aroud and jump back in instead. Old Talon tho? get Exhausted = get fked.
No it isn't a kit being healthy and a champion being strong are not the same thing.
I didn't say they are. i said his kit is both.
Again, learn to read.
Talon's new kit is healthier for his opponents and it gives riot a way to change him but it did make him weaker than pre rework.
New talon regularly gets FB at lvl 2. Old Talon was weaker than early game Vayne even at level 6 unless he got a Brutalizer.
Healthier yes weaker also YES.
In your imaginary world perhaps.
Feelings dont matter it iss a fact.
You dotn know what fact means.
You are trying to argue against data that you probably didn't even research and the fact that stripping away AOE damage for single target damage in a teamfight does in fact make your kit slightly weaker than when you had similar single target damage but with more AOE.
Again, you are only looking at it from the vacuum perspective of how he was before instead of comparing the actual pros and cons of the two directly with eachother. SO what if his Flat AOE is weaker? With his W and ulti , he can get his passive on all 5 members of the team (multiple times in fact), and doing so nets his even more total damage than pre rework Talon. It just requires actual skill and effort on the player to do so now.
That doesn't make him weaker at all. That just makes him harder to play.
Also, irony called. It wants its claims about data research back.
His kit is weaker than before period.
he does more damage, is more mobile, has more options and is stronger at early levels.
I fail to see how he is weaker outside of you simply claiming ti is facts over and over like a chimp withotu any real reasoning.
If you have been a Talon player from season 3 you would know this.
Considering the only difference between Talon pre and post S3 was the fact that his E amp didn't even work and so his W and R were adjusted to compensate, i fail to see how.
He wasn't outright bad post rework but he wasn't that great. The kit wasn't why he was doing poorly it sucked that you rely on your laner being an idiot but what hurt was the lethality items. Surprise surprise they buffed the items and bam 54% winrate.
I disagree. My only issues with talon pre Lethality changes were the bugs and such, like how his E will sometimes act weird when jumpign from turrets or how his auto will sometimes not go off when you Q to a target.
Outside of that, I was doing great rushing 
and getting
second.
I'll try to simplify it best I can for you. Kit isn't bad but it is weaker than the previous one. His items sucked so he wasn't that good. His items got buffed so now he is good. I am trying to explain to you why he was not good before the lethality changes. Talon pre lethality. Not great. Talon post lethality. Damn strong.
I cant help but read your "attempts at simplifying it for me" as nothing short of a poor attempt at trying to cover up how lacking of actual substance your post actually is.
I am not trying to claim Talon was godtier pick or ban before the lethality changes, but He was far from subpar. As long as you knew what you were doing, he was more than capable of doing his job and doing it well.
I didn't get my Level 7 Mastery on the guy yesterday.
But regardless, until you can give me an actual reason as to why he is weaker than his prework, i will not take the claim seriously.
Critmaster Garen1 votestalons rework was actually not that bad.
is the awkward one. hes literally only useful as a counter to jhin now.
WoonStruck1 votesTalon's still 'mash buttons at someone and either win or lose' though.
Now he just has hyper-roaming escape/engage potential with it.
Because of that, I'd still say its pretty bad, just not the 'Talon is an ineffective champ' kinda bad.
