Tanks building wrong

Mira Arya Enthe··32 votes·3,581 views

EDIT: For clarity, "Priority" means you should choose these items in most games over other options. Not that you should buy them first. Most people understood that, some did not.

Before you say "You are bronze" I know. This isn't from my experience. It is general knowledge from watching high level play then watching how my ranked games go. :)

I see tanks building 400-500 armor. Then whining they die too fast and tanks are useless. So here is a tip that was shared from a high level friend.

Stat priority for tanks should be like this:

Active mitigation and shields item 3110 item 3190 item 3143 item 3102 item 3047 Try to have at least one of these, preferably two. :D Regardless of their pen, %HP damage or any other stat. Lowering their AS, crit damage, or shielding yourself cannot be overrated.

Then Health Lots of items have this. But a tank shouldn't end the game with 2900HP unless it is a really short game. :3 Doesn't matter how much armor you have if you have no HP, because armor is easy to penetrate. If the enemy Garen applies BC to you that is a 30% shred. The ADC also penetrates 45%+7% ideally. Health usually comes with Armor and MR however so no big worries.

Then Armor and Magic Resist Try to build things that synchronize well with your champion and role. While item 3075 is good on Rammus. A better choice on Leona would be item 3110 and while that is good on Leona. item 3143 is better on Shyvana because no mana =o Also buying MR and Armor that comes WITH HP is always more bang for your buck. On most tanks item 3102 or item 3065 is better than item 3001

Then HP Regen It isn't as huge, but forms of HP regen are nice. You usually get this anyway from your HP/Armor/MR items though, so it isn't a huge priority. But things like item 3065 item 3190 item 3102 item 3083 are always nice.

Only then should a tank worry about damage. I see too many tanks at my level of play with builds like this: item 3001 item 3068 item 3075 item 3026 item 3512 item 3111 complain tanks are useless. None of these items are bad on their own and work well when mixed into builds with the others, but just building for this damage/tank builds with no HP, active mitigation or shields. Is the reason you die so fast. Obviously builds vary per tank. But this is just some general advice. Itemize better, tanks are fine. I play Leona, Shyvana(Not a tank but a Juggernaut), Sejuani and a couple others. :D

Good day friends.

EDIT: Tenacity is also great on certain tanks. As you are the first diving in and will absorb some CC. But it isn't as important :3

193 Comments

LankPants22 votes

My opinion is that you want to optimise HP and armour at the same time right now with MR as a distant afterthought in most games. Items like item 3143 , item 3068 , item 3047 and item 1413 are optimal for early itemisation.

Being completely biased by the fact that I main Sej my typical build would be something like item 1413 > item 3047 > item 3143 > item 3190 and item 3026 > item 3083 or item 3748 (which is a super underrated pure tank item).

Before you say "You are bronze" I know. This isn't from my experience. It is general knowledge from watching high level play then watching how my ranked games go. :)

Being low rank doesn't make your argument bad, being high rank can lend some credibility but it's not the be-all and end-all. Your argument is well thought out and solid. Being low rank doesn't change that.

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

{quoted}

My opinion is that you want to optimise HP and armour at the same time right now with MR as a distant afterthought in most games. Items like item 3143 , item 3068 , item 3047 and item 1413 are optimal for early itemisation.

Being completely biased by the fact that I main Sej my typical build would be something like item 1413 > item 3047 > item 3143 > item 3190 and item 3026 > item 3083 or item 3748 (which is a super underrated pure tank item).

Being low rank doesn't make your argument bad, being high rank can lend some credibility but it's not the be-all and end-all. Your argument is well thought out and solid. Being low rank doesn't change that.

Unfortunately. It does to the majority of the boards. I posted a nice topic once asking about some advice about what makes Janna good or bad and how to play with/against her. Every single post was something like "Get out of bronze." or "Stop being trash." So I deleted it.

Handy Sandy 18 votes

I saw a malphite with 1.9k health at level 12 or something build 3 thormails because the enemy team was AD except the 20/3 annie he was fighting against.

warpenguin5555 votes

seems legit

oSEXYPLATYPUSo13 votes

people to much base whether or not a statement/opinion is valid based on what rank you are. and its wrong. but that is the elitist pissing contest that rank has created. but you are right.

as a tank you need to have a wide range of different def stats. not just armor or hp or mr, but a combination based on team comps of what you are facing and based on what you champ scales well with. also damage reduction passive from tank items are some times just as valuable as the raw tank stats that they provide.

if you have 400 armor and 2000 hp your armor isnt gonna do anything. you be better off with 3400 hp 280 armor with damage reduction passive from items like item 3047 item 3143 will allow you to survive alot longer then just going pure armor.

i played a game last night as Malphite picked him into a losing lane match up based off my teams comp and theirs.

my team was Malphite Fiora Ahri Bard Draven having little to no cc, alot of damage, no tank no engage enemy was Kayle Warwick KogMaw Sona Vayne

i picked Malphite for his entire kit of damage reduction passive , his debuff of attack speed and his passive armor bonus. and for his engage , peel , slow. i know i wasnt gonna win vs Kayle but with their team being full of on hit and auto attack based champs i made a good pick

my build was item 3025 item 3151 item 3047 item 3065 item 3075 item 3143 i didnt need to provide damage i was able to lower their dps enough and make them focus me enough that my team could kill them. i had and Fiora and Draven carrying and i did what i could to keep them alive and let them carry. end of game i went 6-8-16 as Malphite vs that comp.

ModWulf Helhammer5 votes

More often then not, the typical top lane tank isn't going to be getting Locket, as usually supports get it

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

{quoted}

More often then not, the typical top lane tank isn't going to be getting Locket, as usually supports get it

Which is why you don't buy Locket on a top lane tank. And are you sure you mean tank? Not many of those go top, most are supports or junglers. Unless you think Juggernauts are tanks, the guys who lack team fight lockdown like Garen and Mundo.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-08-27T15:27:53.405+0000)

Which is why you don't buy Locket on a top lane tank. And are you sure you mean tank? Not many of those go top, most are supports or junglers. Unless you think Juggernauts are tanks, the guys who lack team fight lockdown like Garen and Mundo.

my two top lane mains are Malphite Maokai and we all know Maokai is tank supreme

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T15:41:23.839+0000)

my two top lane mains are Malphite Maokai and we all know Maokai is tank supreme

This is true, forgot those ones.

ModWulf Helhammer9 votes

My main top laner is Nautilus, and I'm starting to pick up Sion. Pretty certain those are actual tanks.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

{quoted}

My main top laner is Nautilus, and I'm starting to pick up Sion. Pretty certain those are actual tanks.

Sion is a tank yes. Nautilus isn't extremely effective top lane.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:12:31.361+0000)

Sion is a tank yes. Nautilus isn't extremely effective top lane.

not true... it all depends on match up and what your team needs.

ModWulf Helhammer9 votes

He seems to be doing pretty fine in it, with a nearly flat 50% winrate, his highest out of 3 roles mind you.

And before you say "winrates don't matter", they are useful for showing the average strength of a champion.

He's a CC god with good engage and pretty good waveclear. The only time I can see you not wanting him is you're up against an Olaf.

GULAG 4 U5 votes

As a Yi/kha'zix main, when I see nautilus I feel like going afk =^{

PermabannedGaren6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:12:31.361+0000)

Sion is a tank yes. Nautilus isn't extremely effective top lane.

Nautilus was the single best top laner in the game not too long ago.

Now he's merely okay, so people don't play him.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo5 votes

{quoted}

My main top laner is Nautilus, and I'm starting to pick up Sion. Pretty certain those are actual tanks.

sion is ok he dont have a great win rate atm. its too easy to dodge his skills and his ult. his passive is so so . he can be a meat shield but its really hard to pull of his cc in fights. its slow and telegraphed.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

He's meant to be a cc chained imo.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

{quoted}

He's meant to be a cc chained imo.

but based on what the OP has been trying to define as a tank Nautilus would be a tank due to engage, cc, ect. but discredits any validation to trundle 's ability to tank.

GULAG 4 U3 votes

Trundle doesn't have a hard engage like sion doe. He could be somewhat of a different tank, just like how kha'zix, yasuo and ekko are somewhat skirmishing assassins.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

{quoted}

Trundle doesn't have a hard engage like sion doe. He could be somewhat of a different tank, just like how kha'zix, yasuo and ekko are somewhat skirmishing assassins.

land sions hard engage with regular success. its not as reliable as people think it is. the best part sion has going for him as a tank is his passive on W and the shield it provides and his passive when he comes back from death.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

Well yeah it's not reliable, that's why he's a cc chain tank e.e

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

{quoted}

Well yeah it's not reliable, that's why he's a cc chain tank e.e

ok but sions Q is slow and telegraphed and really hard to pull off unless you do it and the enemy is completely clueless or you do it in a fog of war lack of vision, its best used after they engage on to a champ to use to peel with then to engage with

GULAG 4 U2 votes

It's not a question of reliability but if they even have it. Trundle doesn't have hard engage nor lockdown so he's not a tank. Also why does i matter?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

{quoted}

It's not a question of reliability but if they even have it. Trundle doesn't have hard engage nor lockdown so he's not a tank. Also why does i matter?

but he does its just not in the sense people are use to. why do you think trundle is now played as support? its not for his healing and shields of the adc.

GULAG 4 U4 votes

Trundle support is popular and not considered a troll pick anymore??

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

{quoted}

Trundle support is popular and not considered a troll pick anymore??

was picked in LCS on a semi regular basis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpF0VjgXQNA

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

{quoted}

Trundle support is popular and not considered a troll pick anymore??

lcs game right now imt vs clg IMT has Trundle support

Gary B Enkelis3 votes

{quoted}

Well time to make kha'zix support lcs viable kappa. Well damn, what makes trundle support lcs viable?

Probably his tank busting, his pillar, he catches ADs and takes their AD. His huge sustain + bond of stone is probably alright.

AFK Push1 votes

Trundle does little to nothing without at least one damage item item 3748 item 3025 item 3078 etc, he is too strong of a splitpusher, and does too much damage to squishies and other bruisers to actually be a tank. This is why he is on the juggernaut list http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

WoonStruck1 votes

Little to nothing without at least one damage item you say?

Why is he a strong support then?

AFK Push2 votes

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Support

Yes, yes, I know this is an average of high elo only, but his damage is barely above Alistar meaning that in that department he is rather bad (they are building straight tank which is why).

All of his damage when playing him like this is completely in his ult which will do up to 17% of a targets maximum health at max level. This makes him very good against a very tanky comp, meaning that he will do reasonable damage against them and be the tankiest champ on the rift when stealing their stats.

The real reason to play Trundle over any other tank support is I hate to say it, but his pillar. It is a very unique ability in that it generates impassible terrain, meaning that he can isolate somebody, or use it as very good peel (on a decently low cd with CDR and maxing it first).

Q and W don't really do much for Trundle support since you aren't building damage (usually), making E and R the bread and butter.

I'll give him this though, with his sustain in lane he can tank better than almost any other support (actually the highest damage taken over 30k Dayum). So if you need a beefy guy just to eat shots, then he is your support lol.

Keira Helsh2 votes

{quoted}

More often then not, the typical top lane tank isn't going to be getting Locket, as usually supports get it

True tanks, not Juggernauts, how many Nauts are you seeing in top lane?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Keira Helsh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-08-27T15:28:16.200+0000)

True tanks, not Juggernauts, how many Nauts are you seeing in top lane?

i play Nautilus top and Maokai Malphite Nunu and i have played Trundle as pure tank

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2016-08-27T15:44:36.373+0000)

i play Nautilus top and Maokai Malphite Nunu and i have played Trundle as pure tank

Trundle isn't a pure tank regardless of how you build him. He lacks the CC engage combo of a tank. He is a juggernaut. Naut going top isn't very effective but can work, he is better jungle.

Trundle is a tank the same way Garen, Shyvana or Darius are. They aren't. We use to call them Bruisers, now they are "Juggernauts"

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:11:54.273+0000)

Trundle isn't a pure tank regardless of how you build him. He lacks the CC engage combo of a tank. He is a juggernaut. Naut going top isn't very effective but can work, he is better jungle.

naut is better support. as far as trundle no he is and can be a tank simply by his ult and q he steals tank stats and if he is already tanky when he does that he becomes unkillable. with his pillar of ice he can block escapes and engage with that or disengage by blocking off. his w gives him movement speed to chase and engage. his pillar of ice also has a slow effect if are on it/walking in its animation. he is an underrated tank. and best of all he is a true counter to tanks. as well.

Keira Helsh2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:16:13.458+0000)

naut is better support. as far as trundle no he is and can be a tank simply by his ult and q he stills tank stats and if he is already tanky when he does that he becomes unkillable. with his pillar of ice he can block escapes and engage with that or disengage by blocking off. his w gives him movement speed to chase and engage. his pillar of ice also has a slow effect if are on it/walking in its animation. he is an underrated tank. and best of all he is a true counter to tanks. as well.

That's because he's a fighter with a secondary as tank.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:16:13.458+0000)

naut is better support. as far as trundle no he is and can be a tank simply by his ult and q he stills tank stats and if he is already tanky when he does that he becomes unkillable. with his pillar of ice he can block escapes and engage with that or disengage by blocking off. his w gives him movement speed to chase and engage. his pillar of ice also has a slow effect if are on it/walking in its animation. he is an underrated tank. and best of all he is a true counter to tanks. as well.

Trundle is a tank the same way Garen, Shyvana or Darius are. They aren't. We use to call them Bruisers, now they are "Juggernauts"

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=000300010000000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:18:02.279+0000)

Trundle is a tank the same way Garen, Shyvana or Darius are. They aren't. We use to call them Bruisers, now they are "Juggernauts&quo

actually shy just lacks cc, she can get massively tanky. garen can be a tank but has no engage or cc and kited to easily and darius isnt a tank in any sense he gets zero def stats from any passive or abilities.

but trundle can be a duelist , a bruiser and a tank. it depends on how you build and play him.

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=0003000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:20:57.389+0000)

actually shy just lacks cc, she can get massively tanky. garen can be a tank but has no engage or cc and kited to easily and darius isnt a tank in any sense he gets zero def stats from any passive or abilities.

but trundle can be a duelist , a bruiser and a tank. it depends on how you build and play him.

Getting tanky doesn't make a tank alone. In LoL roles are defined by ability mechanics. Tanks need lockdown, which is why Garen, Trundle and Shyvana are not tanks, but bruisers. While Amumu, Naut and Leona are tanks, they have lockdown and hard engage potential. I believe the set definitions were.

Tanks need engage, lockdown and a tanking steroid.

Assassins need mobility, burst and either stealth or easy engagement tools.

etc etc

Shyvana only has two of those, engage and a decent tanking steroid. She has no lockdown, and still only lives so long with her +40 defense stats. That doesn't compare to Leona or Rammus who get over 100.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=00030001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:24:09.833+0000)

Getting tanky doesn't make a tank alone. In LoL roles are defined by ability mechanics. Tanks need lockdown, which is why Garen, Trundle and Shyvana are not tanks, but bruisers. While Amumu, Naut and Leona are tanks, they have lockdown and hard engage potential. I believe the set definitions were.

Tanks need engage, lockdown and a tanking steroid.

Assassins need mobility, burst and either stealth or easy engagement tools.

etc etc

Shyvana only has two of those, engage and a decent tanking steroid. She has no lockdown, and still only lives so long with her +40 defense stats. That doesn't compare to Leona or Rammus who get over 100.

ok once again .... as far as Trundle is concerned .. he can be a tank, he gains hp for units dying near him giving him massive sustain. he has his frozen domain which allows him to catch or disengage which will also increase his sustain from his passive.

his pillar of ice is a terrain alternating slow that can close off people from getting away or disengage from teams. and his q steals ad from who ever he uses it on or whatever monster/creep he uses it on reducing damage dealt to him by reducing the amount of ad of that champ/creep/monster he used Q on.

and as far as his ult subjugate : Trundle drains the life force out of the target enemy champion, dealing magic damage, healing for the premitigation damage dealt and stealing 40% of their armor and magic resistance. Half of the total damage and stealing is applied instantly, and the other half is applied over the next 4 seconds.

means he gains 40% armor and mr from his target and heals him when he does the ult. giving him tank stats.

and a typical trundle build for top lane is item 3025 item 3065 item 3068 item 3053 item 3742 item 3111

and as far as tank trundle support item 3401 item 2045 item 3143 item 3190 item 3025 item 3047

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=000300010000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:37:45.046+0000)

ok once again .... as far as Trundle is concerned .. he can be a tank, he gains hp for units dying near him giving him massive sustain. he has his frozen domain which allows him to catch or disengage which will also increase his sustain from his passive.

his pillar of ice is a terrain alternating slow that can close off people from getting away or disengage from teams. and his q steals ad from who ever he uses it on or whatever monster/creep he uses it on reducing damage dealt to him by reducing the amount of ad of that champ/creep/monster he used Q on.

and as far as his ult subjugate : Trundle drains the life force out of the target enemy champion, dealing magic damage, healing for the premitigation damage dealt and stealing 40% of their armor and magic resistance. Half of the total damage and stealing is applied instantly, and the other half is applied over the next 4 seconds.

means he gains 40% armor and mr from his target and heals him when he does the ult. giving him tank stats.

and a typical trundle build for top lane is item 3025 item 3065 item 3068 item 3053 item 3742 item 3111

and as far as tank trundle support item 3401 item 2045 item 3143 item 3190 item 3025 item 3047

Pillar of Ice isn't a reliable enough lockdown to initiate fights. Which is why he is a Fighter/Tank. Not a Tank/Fighter.

Fighter/Tank is a Juggernaut, they have usually one CC, lots of damage and are very tanky. But they do not have the hard initiation that true tanks have. The only tank who falls outside of this is Singed, but his' fling and slow are still pretty good initiation tools. Trundle is just very close to the tanks, but he still lacks the initiation tools that(outside of singed) every other Tank/??? hase.

Alistar Amumu Blitzcrank Chogath Galio JarvanIV Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Poppy Rammus Sejuani Shen Sion Zac

The full list of Tank/??? champions in League, they all share one thing in common. They have extremely strong initiation. The exception is Singed.

On the other hand, while Hecarim can build tanky his tanking steroid isn't strong enough to be considered a true tank. And while Trundle has great tanking steroids, like Nasus or Garen he lacks the tools to make a hard initiation. Making him a Juggernaut. Which is is for sustained combat, but lacks peel and initiation.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=0003000100000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T16:45:35.449+0000)

Pillar of Ice isn't a reliable enough lockdown to initiate fights. Which is why he is a Fighter/Tank. Not a Tank/Fighter.

Fighter/Tank is a Juggernaut, they have usually one CC, lots of damage and are very tanky. But they do not have the hard initiation that true tanks have. The only tank who falls outside of this is Singed, but his' fling and slow are still pretty good initiation tools. Trundle is just very close to the tanks, but he still lacks the initiation tools that(outside of singed) every other Tank/??? hase.

Alistar Amumu Blitzcrank Chogath Galio JarvanIV Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Poppy Rammus Sejuani Shen Sion Zac

The full list of Tank/??? champions in League, they all share one thing in common. They have extremely strong initiation. The exception is Singed.

On the other hand, while Hecarim can build tanky his tanking steroid isn't strong enough to be considered a true tank. And while Trundle has great tanking steroids, like Nasus or Garen he lacks the tools to make a hard initiation. Making him a Juggernaut. Which is is for sustained combat, but lacks peel and initiation.

ok lets start with Chogath he is an ap bruiser with some cc but his only engage is his Q which has a tell tell animation it has a slow cast time and can easily be dodge and it is a "skill shot"

as far as Galio he is isnt a tank because his ult engage is to flash ult he has no reliable from of hard cc at all. mana hungry and has long cooldowns.

JarvanIV is more of a bruiser fighter then Trundle he dont get free def stats and every aspect of Trundle is more tank than JarvanIV the only reason you are choosing him is based on the theory around engage, yes JarvanIV has his q e combo and his ult but he gains zero sustain, damage reduction or tank stats from his abilities other the his small bonus from his W shield. JarvanIV is far more effective as an ad bruiser then full tank.

Shen only engage is his taunt, which has a huge cost for using ability. his ult shields his teammates and allows him to tp to them but it only scales on ap and no one really builds Shen ap. so he gains zero def stats from it. he gains all his def stats from items. his W can block some damage but it dont provide bonus armor or mr. and other then that provides zero utility. also shen has zero sustain.

Sion can easily stack hp from W passive and he has a shield that blocks damage but his ult is very unreliable to engage with. his Q is telegraphed and slow and easily dodged. just like Chogath Q. his E provides some poke with armor debuff. othter then jsut being a meat shield he isnt all that hard to deal with. he provides zero peel abilities for his team.

Blitzcrank isnt a tank either. he is good for picks and easy kills. he can provide some small peel. but other then his passive that gives him a shield at very low hp based on mana. he has no def abilities. and he is weaker in team fights then most engages because after he misses his Q he has none.

Alistar is more disengage then engage. his combo is easier now then it use to be to pull off but its still somewhat difficult and a skill shot. and chances are your more likely to head butt enemies to safety then to death unless you get behind them. but once again he doesnt provide debuffs, he has cc, a small heal and his ult reduces damage. but once again he misses his combo he is kinda just walking around getting kited.

now as far as the rest of them Amumu Malphite Maokai Poppy Rammus Leona Nautilus Sejuani Zac would be more considered tanks. then the others.

but we are forgetting TahmKench DrMundo Braum which are tanks as well.

but the great thing about Trundle is he can counter Alistar Blitzcrank Amumu Braum Chogath DrMundo JarvanIV Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Poppy Rammus Sejuani Shen Sion TahmKench Volibear Zac Galio and still tank.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=00030001000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T17:16:46.260+0000)

ok lets start with Chogath he is an ap bruiser with some cc but his only engage is his Q which has a tell tell animation it has a slow cast time and can easily be dodge and it is a "skill shot"

as far as Galio he is isnt a tank because his ult engage is to flash ult he has no reliable from of hard cc at all. mana hungry and has long cooldowns.

JarvanIV is more of a bruiser fighter then Trundle he dont get free def stats and every aspect of Trundle is more tank than JarvanIV the only reason you are choosing him is based on the theory around engage, yes JarvanIV has his q e combo and his ult but he gains zero sustain, damage reduction or tank stats from his abilities other the his small bonus from his W shield. JarvanIV is far more effective as an ad bruiser then full tank.

Shen only engage is his taunt, which has a huge cost for using ability. his ult shields his teammates and allows him to tp to them but it only scales on ap and no one really builds Shen ap. so he gains zero def stats from it. he gains all his def stats from items. his W can block some damage but it dont provide bonus armor or mr. and other then that provides zero utility. also shen has zero sustain.

Sion can easily stack hp from W passive and he has a shield that blocks damage but his ult is very unreliable to engage with. his Q is telegraphed and slow and easily dodged. just like Chogath Q. his E provides some poke with armor debuff. othter then jsut being a meat shield he isnt all that hard to deal with. he provides zero peel abilities for his team.

Blitzcrank isnt a tank either. he is good for picks and easy kills. he can provide some small peel. but other then his passive that gives him a shield at very low hp based on mana. he has no def abilities. and he is weaker in team fights then most engages because after he misses his Q he has none.

Alistar is more disengage then engage. his combo is easier now then it use to be to pull off but its still somewhat difficult and a skill shot. and chances are your more likely to head butt enemies to safety then to death unless you get behind them. but once again he doesnt provide debuffs, he has cc, a small heal and his ult reduces damage. but once again he misses his combo he is kinda just walking around getting kited.

now as far as the rest of them Amumu Malphite Maokai Poppy Rammus Leona Nautilus Sejuani Zac would be more considered tanks. then the others.

but we are forgetting TahmKench DrMundo Braum which are tanks as well.

but the great thing about Trundle is he can counter Alistar Blitzcrank Amumu Braum Chogath DrMundo JarvanIV Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Poppy Rammus Sejuani Shen Sion TahmKench Volibear Zac Galio and still tank.

I'm talking about people with the primary tag Tank/??? I didn't decide any of those. All tanks need initiation and CC to tank properly. Or else Garen would be the primary tank of every game since his tanking steroid is so strong when active. You can build a bruiser tanky, but they still aren't a tank by the definitions agreed on by Riot and high level players, if they cannot initiate fights and lockdown the enemy team.

Yes. I forgot Braum and Tahm, they primary tag is support so they were overlooked.

Mundo, like Shyvana, Garen, Trundle or others is a Juggernaut. Which is a form of off tank known as a 'threat tank'. They are threatening and deal enough damage to be targeted. But are tanky. They aren't however true tanks. Because they cannot hard initiate fights and lock down enemies. Jarvan has a shield, slow, impassable terrain and knock up for initiations. Making him more of a tank than trundle. His tanking steroid is on the weaker end for tanks, but since his primary tag is still tank, it shows you what is important to make a tank to Riot when they consulted high ELO players to decide how the roles should be defined.

Trundle's secondary role is tank, just like Garen. Because he lacks initiation and peel, which are the jobs of a tank. Initiate fights and peel enemies off of your carries.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=000300010000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T17:24:03.653+0000)

I'm talking about people with the primary tag Tank/??? I didn't decide any of those. All tanks need initiation and CC to tank properly. Or else Garen would be the primary tank of every game since his tanking steroid is so strong when active. You can build a bruiser tanky, but they still aren't a tank by the definitions agreed on by Riot and high level players, if they cannot initiate fights and lockdown the enemy team.

Yes. I forgot Braum and Tahm, they primary tag is support so they were overlooked.

Mundo, like Shyvana, Garen, Trundle or others is a Juggernaut. Which is a form of off tank known as a 'threat tank'. They are threatening and deal enough damage to be targeted. But are tanky. They aren't however true tanks. Because they cannot hard initiate fights and lock down enemies. Jarvan has a shield, slow, impassable terrain and knock up for initiations. Making him more of a tank than trundle. His tanking steroid is on the weaker end for tanks, but since his primary tag is still tank, it shows you what is important to make a tank to Riot when they consulted high ELO players to decide how the roles should be defined.

Trundle's secondary role is tank, just like Garen. Because he lacks initiation and peel, which are the jobs of a tank. Initiate fights and peel enemies off of your carries.

ok MUNDO IS A TANK HE BUILD PURE TANK ITEMS AND HP . shy is a duelist who gets free tank stats from her R. garen is a fighter offtank who has no engage or cc of any kind.

but TRUNDLE DOES HAVE CC ENGAGE TANK STATS DAMAGE REDUCTION SUSTAIN.

you can keep tryng to twist it any way you want but TRUNDLE CAN BE A TANK AND DOES IT GREATLY.

trundle's pilliar can knock up as well. he gets free def stats from his ult which j4 dont , he has damage reduction with his Q meaning his enemy does less damage.

and as far as J4 is concerned he can be built as AD ASSASSIN AND 1 SHOT AND KILL PEOPLE. TANKS DONT DO THAT.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=00030001000000000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-27T17:38:36.127+0000)

You don't understand. Riot and high ELO play defines a tank as somebody who can initiate fights, lockdown enemies and has a tanking steroid. Jarvan has those. Trundle lacks proper initiation. Which is why they, not I, list Trundle as a fighter and Jarvan as a tank.

Sejuani can build pure AP and one shot people. Her design is still that of a tank. What you build doesn't decide what the champion's designed role is, or what they do. You can build all tank and no damage on Garen, he still isn't a tank and doesn't serve that role for his team. Trundle's pillar doesn't make him a tank, he lacks reliable, hard initiation AND lockdown. Two of the primary attributes of a tank. He only has one, which is tanking steroid.

Just as Wither and lifesteal do not make Nasus a tank, and silence plus W don't make Garen a tank. Neither does pillar and tanking stats make Trundle a tank. He doesn't have the tools to be a tank. They all fall under Juggernaut. This isn't MY definition either. This is the definition Riot hooked up to the champions after looking at LCS and asking. "What makes a champion fill the tank role, the the sustained Juggernaut role, the Fighter role or other roles?" And then decided Trundle was a Juggernaut, and Jarvan was a tank. Because Jarvan has the tools to initiate and peel for his team, which is a tank's job.

Tanking Steroid Initiation Tool Crowd Control Peel

Necessary to be a tank. Otherwise you are a Juggernaut or some other class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XhkxdspA,comment-id=00030001000000000000000100000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2016-08-27T17:43:36.376+0000)

Given up on being civil and making actual arguments I see?

Again, you are not arguing with me. You are arguing with how the LCS pros use the champions and how Riot classes them based on that. That is why Trundle is a Juggernaut. You know who else are? Volibear and Mundo. That is what they are classed as. A Juggernaut provides some crowd control, is tanky and does sustained often AoE damage to make themselves a threat. While they continuously fight in the fray of things.

Tanks Initiate, peel, lockdown. And therefore have strong tanking steroids so they can do this effectively.

no the juggernauts were Darius Garen Mordekaiser Skarner http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/gameplay-update-juggernauts the only other champ they (RIOT) list as a "juggernaut" is Nasus

Shifune2 votes

Don't worry mate, I feel you. OP doesn't seem to understand that build path also determines your role. Just because a champion's primary role say tank, it doesn't mean that they are a tank. You have to build as a tank to be a tank.

I frequently play full AP Malphite. His primary role is a tank, but he isn't a tank when built full AP. You can't tank any damage because you will die almost instantly, but he can 1-shot basically anyone who isn't a tank.

I read a post a few days ago about tank supports. A rioter replied saying that his favorite tank support was Alistar. Someone else said they played AP Alistar mid. The rioter then said "AP Alistar isn't a tank, it is a mage," or something like that.

So, just because a champions primary role says tank, it doesn't mean that they are always a tank. Similarly, just because a champions primary role doesn't say tank, it doesn't mean that they can't be a tank. Your build majorly affects what your actual role is.

CoolKnightST4 votes

Their are a lot of reason why people don't build these items. item 3110 still remains extreemly expensive compaired to the other options while item 3143 is just a mix of things put together and the situational elements inside the item makes it so that the item is extreemly good in some situations while in other it's just dead weight.

item 3102 is fine and secretly OP in certain situations. Still it's more of a suitable lategame item than something that you get for some early power.

Spookÿ2 votes

Your argument on some of this is wrong, all you needed to say was "Build either Cleaver (if ad) or Rylais (if ap) and go Warmogs + Spirit + deadmans + boots + GA..... you can still 1 shot the carry and then when you have 4k hp noone can kill you... simple game really... WHICH IS BULLSHIT. FUCK RIOT. :D [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Mira Arya Enthe15 votes

{quoted}

Your argument on some of this is wrong, all you needed to say was "Build either Cleaver (if ad) or Rylais (if ap) and go Warmogs + Spirit + deadmans + boots + GA..... you can still 1 shot the carry and then when you have 4k hp noone can kill you... simple game really... WHICH IS BULLSHIT. FUCK RIOT. :D [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

I'm talking about true tanks. Not juggernauts.

Rammus Sejuani Amumu Nautilus Alistar Galio Braum Leona

If true tanks were one shotting people with just a BC or Rylai's then there would just be 5v5 tanks in LCS.

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