Why again does an AFK offer NO ingame-compensations in LoL only?

Eternal Torment·Aug 30, 2019·93 votes·19,179 views

League of Legends is the ONLY Moba known that has absolutely NO forgiveness mechanic to teams with AFKs.

DOTA gives remaining active players passive stat increases based on the number of AFKs, making 4v5 and 3v5 still possible to play And abusing AFK's to farm kills, tilt the remaining active players or overall trying not to end the game ASAP for personal pleasure is considered unsportsmanlike and punished.

Heroes of the Storm lets the AFK's champions play on the hardest difficulty bot to offer some consolation and contribution.

Fuck, even phone mobas like Mobile Legends Bang Bang offer some consolation with IMMEDIATE AFK punishment and reduced loss for ranked numbers, with NO loss if 2 or more players AFK.

League of Legends is literally the only moba largely known that says FUCK YOU to teams with AFKs. Why? Why is LOL unable to do what cheap ripoff mobile games can do? Just why?

86 Comments

KalokasIsMyDaddyAug 30, 201937 votes

Because Riot doesn't know what's good for the game and what isn't. They want to, but they just don't know what the fuck to do. Currently, I believe that they think these events and shit are what we want and not actual gameplay changes that could the game could really use right now.

TwitchInMyPantsAug 30, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Because Riot doesn't know what's good for the game and what isn't. They want to, but they just don't know what the fuck to do. Currently, I believe that they think these events and shit are what we want and not actual gameplay changes that could the game could really use right now.

What events? LOL

They're selling us passes that give some skin shards and they're all clones of each other. They've not done a real event in a year or so.

Zed geniusAug 30, 201921 votes

If someone is AFK long enough to not appear on the honors screen, the rest of the team shouldn't lose LP.

AatrøxAug 30, 20199 votes

abusable af

Zed geniusAug 30, 20195 votes

How is that abusable?

LeetriAug 30, 20194 votes

Bully people out of the game when you're losing to avoid losing LP, for one.

KovorixAug 30, 201911 votes

Tbf you can't bully someone with the option to full mute everyone. What you wanna do? Hack into their headsets and flame them?

Zed geniusAug 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Tbf you can't bully someone with the option to full mute everyone. What you wanna do? Hack into their headsets and flame them?

That's what I was thinking would be the counter to said "abuse"

KovorixAug 30, 20193 votes

Like I have perma all chat disabled theres no reason for it. And why write with teammates as it just consumes time you could use to play.

FioraWillCarryDec 1, 20191 votes

Errr......no. There are players like me that hate playing unwinnable games and will often leave them without any kind of goading or flaming on my team's part.

It's true, you can't force someone to afk but realistically, the percentage of games where a team would be successful in getting one of their team mates to afk won't be zero. And as I mentioned, there are players like me. I agree with that other guy, it is abusable.

AatrøxAug 31, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfkPahMG,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T14:11:51.957+0000)

How is that abusable?

making someone afk so you dont lose lp, playing premade with someone so they quit if youre losing (enables easy duoq boosting), paying someone to leave the game etc

Alluring TouchAug 31, 20191 votes

making the lp loss of the sole afker, while the rest gain/lose 0 lp.. ah yes extremely abusable i can see why everybody would wanna lose 20+lp /s

Darkstar AnnieDec 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfkPahMG,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:34:37.300+0000)

If someone is AFK long enough to not appear on the honors screen, the rest of the team shouldn't lose LP.

Or at least halve the loss.

Starcraft243verAug 30, 201910 votes

I would trade most of my teammates for increased stats or for a good bot.

Also getting increased stats as janna and getting increased stats as jax is not equivalent.

There's no way to balance this kind of feature.

Eternal TormentAug 30, 20199 votes

{quoted}

I would trade most of my teammates for increased stats or for a good bot.

Also getting increased stats as janna and getting increased stats as jax is not equivalent.

There's no way to balance this kind of feature.

Well, DOTA did it. But then again, they do everything better than LoL anyway

ZaFishboneAug 30, 201910 votes

Then go play DOTA.

Sightless66Aug 31, 20192 votes

And Dota 2 doesn't, unless you count up splitting up an afk's passive gold gain 4 ways as a stat boost (I don't, and the game doesn't either because it lets you just leave after someone abandons).

Pika FoxAug 30, 20199 votes

Because it would be dumb to implement a compensatory system for an afk.

You would have direct incentive to make the weakest link afk.

Zed geniusAug 30, 201922 votes

Like people are not already flaming the weakest link and tell them directly to go afk already

Sightless66Aug 31, 20197 votes

"People are already shitheads when they have no incentive to be, so clearly nothing could go wrong if we offer them a reward to be shitheads. It can't get worse!"

Bob the ToastrAug 30, 201910 votes

How do you "make" someone afk when there's a mute feature?

Sightless66Aug 31, 20192 votes

In high elo games, you threaten to troll them every time you see them. You'll see repeats often enough that this is a meaningful threat. Don't want to lose more elo in the future? Be the only one to lose elo now.

RafatinoniAug 31, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfkPahMG,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2019-08-30T18:01:35.727+0000)

How do you "make" someone afk when there's a mute feature?

You don't need to make someone go AFK for it to be abusable.

Some people go AFK because they feed hard or because they think the game is lost.

This would make 4 players in the losing team not lose LP in a game they were most likely going to lose even if noone went AFK.

In this case, it's not exactly ''abusable'' but it gives the losing team an unfair compensation.

Tahminatrix Aug 30, 20198 votes

Riot is afraid that it will just allow the fed champion to carry and cause feeding players to be bullied into afking….

When in reality, its always better to have that extra kit on your team that could mean anything from cc to utility to at the very least some map pressure.

Especially considering, even if the still connected players had addition stats, they would just get out rotated and lose objectives...

Provided that the team of 5 has a brain.

Akali PrimeAug 30, 20198 votes

bEcAuSE tEe eNeMiEs aRe mOrE lIkElY tOo hAVe aN aFk tHaN YoU AnD ThIS iS HoW RiOt bAlaNCeS It

is what some r%%%%% would tell you.

CH1 LONG QUADec 1, 20191 votes

AFK in game = game ruined, doesn't matter which team

Posui GartAug 30, 20197 votes

passive stat increases based on the number of AFKs

Suddenly a winning strategy is to force your support or 0/10 teammates to go afk. This is bad

abusing AFK's to farm kills

Can't kill AFKs in lol

AFK's champions play on the hardest difficulty bot

In lol this will result in that bot getting camped for free gold

reduced loss for ranked numbers, with NO loss if 2 or more players AFK

Suddenly a winning strategy is to force someone to go afk if you are losing so that you waste less lp. This is bad.

VonyaloAug 30, 20198 votes

So in short, league's game design is so bad people will abuse such system. Got it

Kai GuyAug 30, 20194 votes

No, The suggested system is so bad the ways to abuse it are evident after a moments consideration.

VonyaloAug 30, 20192 votes

Works fine in other games as you can see

Kai GuyAug 30, 20192 votes

Stats in Dota are not generated the same way as League. The basic scaling for champions are different. Leauge has abilitys consistently scale off stats.

HOTS bots do not need to buy items thus don't need info about counter itemization. The games simpler to automate. use the most effective talents.

You should take the context of what's required to port other systems over to league mate.

Eternal TormentAug 30, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfkPahMG,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:42:15.163+0000)

Suddenly a winning strategy is to force your support or 0/10 teammates to go afk. This is bad

Can't kill AFKs in lol

In lol this will result in that bot getting camped for free gold

Suddenly a winning strategy is to force someone to go afk if you are losing so that you waste less lp. This is bad.

So you are saying that our community is so godawful toxic they would break any system that otherwise perfectly works on literally every other moba?

Wow, if I hated my worst enemy half as much as you hate all of us.

ZaFishboneAug 30, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfkPahMG,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-08-30T12:07:55.401+0000)

So you are saying that our community is so godawful toxic they would break any system that otherwise perfectly works on literally every other moba?

If you think that is not the case, you've clearly not been paying attention to this community.

Teh SongAug 30, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfkPahMG,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-08-30T12:07:55.401+0000)

So you are saying that our community is so godawful toxic they would break any system that otherwise perfectly works on literally every other moba?

Wow, if I hated my worst enemy half as much as you hate all of us.

Not only would that happen here, I've seen it happen in others.

Back when I first started playing mobas I tried DotA2. I chose LoL over it because I didn't like minion denial and turn rate, but anyhow, I had people see me and my newness and say "if we start losing you need to DC so we can have the afk protections". Not an exact quote.

XintiumSep 1, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfkPahMG,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:42:15.163+0000)

Suddenly a winning strategy is to force your support or 0/10 teammates to go afk. This is bad

Suddenly a winning strategy is to force someone to go afk if you are losing so that you waste less lp. This is bad

There is a simple counter-argument to this, showing why this reasoning is flawed.

For simplicity, assume that every single player in LoL is a self-centered, super-toxic player, except few honest guys (who I am gonna call “victims”).

A victim plays support and, as you may have guessed, gets forced by others to go AFK. The problem is: how are they gonna do that, precisely? They can flame in chat and spam-ping, sure. They could also resort, in some cases, to intentional feeding, trolling and similar things (but this is inefficient in the long-run since they will just lose games out of it, so this method is self-defeating). Finally, they can, if capable (big “if”), try a DoS (or DDoS) attack to force him out of the game, but this last point can be counter-acted effectively via standard methods against DDoS and, in any case, you could do this even now (for example, to stop a team-mate from feeding/trolling).

Suppose that this abuse on victims goes on for roughly 2-3 weeks. After that, what will happen is the following:

The number of reports will sky-rocket;
The number of punishments will also increase;
Chat and pings will get systematically muted, since this is the true “counter” to what toxic players are doing;
Some players will quit the game, but those who stay will have likely developed a very good knowledge of these “AFK abuse tactics” and how to effectively counter it (or become immunized).

After the dust settles, the so-called “winning strategy of forcing AFK” will fade out.

The real reason is simple: apart from what is basically a hacking attack, there is no way to strictly “force” a player to go AFK in LoL.

You can flame/spam-ping him: /fullmute. You can troll/feed: oh wait, we already have that. And the purpose was making him go AFK to win the game, so starting to troll yourself is self-defeating (enemies become stronger and the probability to win decreases).

There is an additional case which I am not going to discuss in detail here, which is when you have, say, a pre-made botlane of friends in vocal chat. One may say to the other: “please go AFK so that we can try to win”. This is the “cooperative AFK strategy”. This may actually work... for a while. But not in the long run.

Posui GartSep 1, 20191 votes

A victim plays support and, as you may have guessed, gets forced by others to go AFK. The problem is: how are they gonna do that, precisely?

Let me apply your reasoning for another possible situation:

A victim plays support and, as you may have guessed, gets forced by others to not lasthit minions and champions. The problem is: how are they gonna do that, precisely?

One day someone found out that if support leaves all the cs and kills to ADC, there is a better chance to win. Eventually it became meta and if I play ranked in support position and start stealing minions, the same thing happens as what you described

They can flame in chat and spam-ping, sure. They could also resort, in some cases, to intentional feeding, trolling and similar things (but this is inefficient in the long-run since they will just lose games out of it, so this method is self-defeating).

But it somehow didn't end up in

Suppose that this abuse on victims goes on for roughly 2-3 weeks. After that, what will happen is the following: ... After the dust settles, the so-called “winning strategy of forcing support to give up farm” will fade out. The real reason is simple: apart from what is basically a hacking attack, there is no way to strictly “force” a player to stop lasthitting in LoL. You can flame/spam-ping him: /fullmute. You can troll/feed: oh wait, we already have that. And the purpose was making him leave all farm to you to win the game, so starting to troll yourself is self-defeating (enemies become stronger and the probability to win decreases).

Of course it is much more acceptable for a support player to give up farming minions than to give up playing at all, but still there should never be a situation in which anyone going afk is better for the team than staying.

XintiumSep 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfkPahMG,comment-id=000500040000,timestamp=2019-09-01T09:58:17.184+0000)

Let me apply your reasoning for another possible situation:

One day someone found out that if support leaves all the cs and kills to ADC, there is a better chance to win. Eventually it became meta and if I play ranked in support position and start stealing minions, the same thing happens as what you described

This is an extrapolation (not an application). Supports not csing: socially-acceptable strategy (which increases probability to win) Forcing AFK: socially-unacceptable strategy (which may or may not increase the probability to win) The keyword is "acceptable". Riot encouraged, enforced and validated the current meta. It is unrealistic to think that Riot will do the same for the forced-AFK strategy. More generally, it is really a stretch to put "the standard way to play the game" and "abusing a player to make him AFK" on the same level, ignoring all the dynamics which led the former to become the meta.

What about reports and bans? Support not csing won't get you banned, while trying to force someone to go AFK will. You cannot arbitrarily ignore the social dynamics and all the processes which created the meta in the first place.

Of course it is much more acceptable for a support player to give up farming minions than to give up playing at all, but still there should never be a situation in which anyone going afk is better for the team than staying.

This is all the difference that matters. Also, situations like that, although quite extreme, already exist. It is the reason why "go afk" became a thing. Finally, the key point to be made is that Riot can fine-tune precisely how much having one (or more) AFK(s) translates into an advantage. It doesn't need to be a big advantage: in fact, it doesn't need to be an advantage at all, only a band-aid to the wound caused by the AFK in the first place.

SmyrageAug 30, 20195 votes

Dota's system would be a source of abuse if implemented in LoL.

HotS one wouldn't work, because HotS doesn't have jungle and players rotate there. The only lane it would work would be botlane. It is also flawed in that regard, that multiple players can attempt to control the AFK's champ, which can be a source of further conflicts. LoL bots are also extremely stupid, so you'll end up with the AFK feeding.

LoL's compensation is just basically helping you level up. I wouldn't touch this system, because let's keep the AFK's champ out of the game until he comes back (if it comes back). The game would be 4v5 regardless, but at least there wouldn't be one feeding.

The only thing this system needs is the automatic shutdown of a match, if even one player can't join till the first 3-5 minutes. The remake system is abusable and is glitched.

XonraAug 31, 20193 votes

Riot doesnt care
Theyd have to spend amy time implementing something and these days id it doesnt make them a dollar they are just too lazy to bother
They are surprisingly out of touch and dont see it as near the problem it really is and dont really care how frustrating it is for us cause it isnt frustrating for them.

punishallnubiansAug 30, 20192 votes

Garbage game. That's why. I remember a professional game where someone had computer issues and the game had to go on. They lost of course. No pause feature either. What a trash, trash, trash game. That's why I don't play this game seriously and never will.

General Esdeath Aug 30, 20192 votes

Because according to the Riot Avengers on the boards, the player doing the worst would be "bullied into going AFK" by his team. These same people will tell you to mute flamers and report them, but apparently this poor person will be so distressed they'll listen to their bullies! Remember kids, flaming a flamer isn't allowed, you have to mute them, it doesn't excuse your toxicity, but if you AFK because someone called you a mean name and told you to AFK so they don't lose LP, you're the victim.

CH1 LONG QUADec 1, 20191 votes

lmao they really say that?

brb going afk so I can ask for my LP back by saying I was bullied

xelakerAug 31, 20192 votes

because riot doesn't care

SiG DxDAug 31, 20192 votes

i cant keep count of how many games someone ragequit and we lost 4v5 and enemy spammed " gg ez"

SirsirSep 2, 20192 votes

They think loss prevention would lead to abuse, and more wintrading.

They are concerned a compensation mechanic would increase toxicity. "Alt f4, we're better off with a bot than you"

Which is hilarious, considering how toxic the game already is. Once a glass is so filthy you can't drink from it, what's a little more dirt?

Although I REALLY hope they don't go the bot route. It's horrible in HotS, and would be worse here since you know they wouldn't implement the 'tether ping' mechanic. It's practically gold gen for the enemy team...

CH1 LONG QUADec 1, 20191 votes

We're better off with an AFK than with a player who, for example, goes 1-14 on an assassin.

Someone playing to throw or win-trade is vastly more likely to succeed in that goal than if they simply went AFK. But that is not relevant to games where there is an AFK. Since such games are, as a general rule, ruined, remediation is called for.

Since they don't have a bot that can even slightly resemble a human player, I don't want to see a bot take over for an AFK. The best solution, I think, is stat increases (mana and cooldown boosts in particular). This can help make up for missing damage and CC, for example. But at the end of the day, you're down an ultimate ability, you have less vision/scouting, less ability to push minions, etc., which stats cannot replace, so having an AFK will never be desirable in general. But even in our present absence of any AFK-buff, it's a mistake to think that a non-AFK is always better than an AFK, or that a willing (or simply low skill) player can't make his team lose even when the enemy has an AFK.

Sightless66Aug 31, 20191 votes

DOTA gives remaining active players passive stat increases based on the number of AFKs,

No, Dota 2 only splits up the afk player's passive gold and letting you sell their items. Neither of these are worthwhile. The main thing Dota 2 does is let you leave games people abandon (afk for 5+ minutes), but there is no real attempt to make games winnable in a 4v5. It would prefer you just leave.

Heroes of the Storm lets the AFK's champions play on the hardest difficulty bot to offer some consolation and contribution.

Which is often considered to be an active detriment to attempts to win 4v5 because the bots are so bad that they'll accidentally feed at all opportunities. It's a token effort that definitely doesn't make 4v5's actually playable. I'd personally rather the bots just sat in base or behind a wall soaking exp instead of trying to help.

CH1 LONG QUADec 1, 20191 votes

Letting people leave after someone abandons is lightyears ahead of LoL. I might come back to this game if they simply allowed that.

On a tangentially related note, LoL needs to allow players to trade gold and/or items at all times, also like Dota. The fun of LoL goes downhill quickly once you can't buy any more items (meanwhile you have gold you can't use and your teammates haven't finished their builds).

Sightless66Dec 1, 20191 votes

On a tangentially related note, LoL needs to allow players to trade gold and/or items at all times, also like Dota.]

Barring neutral item drops (the items you can not buy), Dota 2 doesn't allow that. Someone else can hold your item, but they won't benefit from it in any way. Its only purpose is to help transport items. Sharing items was something that was in the original dota mod, and it was removed because it led to players putting all of their items on their carry and 6-slotting them before anyone else had any items. That wasn't considered very fun, so it was removed a very long time ago and has never come back.

FioraWillCarryDec 1, 20191 votes

I've played HoTS and think it's better to have a 4v5 than to have a 5v5 with a bot. All these bots do is feed which bolsters the enemy team's XP lead much faster than if there was no player there to feed them consistently. Also, you can't form complex strategies with bots, for example, setting up an ambush or sneaking an objective. You might as well be playing 4v5.

I've never played DOTA so I can't speak to how effective their approach is in that game is but this definitely won't work in League. I'm sure you have been super fed before and managed to get yourself 3 manned in the jungle and died still. In League, having a stat advantage is nothing compared to having a numbers advantage. Unless these afk compensation stats go way overboard, it's not gonna make it any more likely that you can win. There is also something else that having a bunch of extra stats can't replace and that is pressure. The lack of pressure being a man short creates is the number one reason 4v5s are nearly always unwinnable. No amount of stats can give you a single player worth of pressure.

As for the solution used by mobile MOBAs. You seem to be suggesting here that the LP loss be reduced. I don't really want to get into an overly long technical post so I'll just say this. It won't work. It will fuck up the ladder and can lead to abuses that will make things far worse in the long run. LP has a direct relationship to MMR. When you start tampering with LP gains without consideration for MMR, you open the door for all kinds of shenanigans.

There really is no good solution to this problem. Punishing players for leaving might actually be the only viable solution and I hope we stick with that. I don't like afks anymore than the next guy but I don't want any of these solutions you proposed.