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Change Zac Q so he gets 2 casts if he lands the first instead of having to auto attack to apply cc

Best Champion NA··25 votes·1,343 views

it would make it way more practical.

21 Comments

Shuyin17812 votes

Another part of the Q's problem is that it doesn't even fully pull the things together like it should. If you look at Nautilus's Q, it should do that. Instead it like Thresh pulls them part of the distance if they are far enough apart and it's annoying.

Ben Sharpio3 votes

i mean... how strong do you want his early game ganking to be. Like holy shit he can farm well, and he already has good gank potential. He's not that bad.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Nah the fact you can't super snipe pull people is fine. You just gotta get used to how it works.

flyingbaklava1 votes

The only thing that makes this ability synergize with his kit is if it ALWAYS slammed targets together. The Q into E combo is the one thing that actually improved in this abomination of a rework, but not knowing where your targets are going to end up ruins that synergy. His ultimate change already removed tons of synergy with his kit (no longer takes advantage of your passive and W), so this should be a no brainer.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

The only time it doesn't slam targets together is when they are literally on separate sides of you.

And you know exactly where the targets are going. If they aren't on opposite sides of you they get slammed, if not they just get really close.

His ult has perfect synergy. E -> R. Hell you could probably throw in a Q too. Also I want to take the time and point out that ults don't need to be 100% synergistic to be really good ults.

flyingbaklava1 votes

His ultimate might synergize with his E if his E knockup lasted longer. I have had people casually walk outside of my ultimate after landing a perfect elastic slingshot. Have you tried the new Zac out? His winrate is sub 40 for a reason.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Yes I have. The first game I messed up the ult a couple of times. The second and third games I landed the ult perfectly.

I'm pretty sure I've used his ult maybe 10 times, 3 of which the priority targets walked out of it. To be honest it sounds like those elastic slingshots aren't perfect.

flyingbaklava1 votes

I have a few dozen games on Zac now. Zac isn't getting better, he just isn't fun to play anymore. This rework ruined the core champion in feel, playstyle, winrate, fuck, in everyway possible. I am trying to give it time. I am trying to learn how to work with a nerf so large, no champion in league history has ever really experienced it before, but I am at my end. I can't play this champion anymore. Even support feels like shit, and its the only role Zac has left. Just give me back my champion. Just undue this atrocity. Show that Riot cares about its community and just revert this abomination of a rework.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

He is getting better and he is fun to play. Your entire statement is a bunch of objective whining. He's different now and you don't like it. Admit that you have no basis in facts with your claims.

flyingbaklava1 votes

I have been playing Zac for the last 4 years. I am #13 in mastery points on Zac (much higher if you combine all my accounts). There are few people with more experience with Zac pre rework then I have and almost none with as much knowledge on how Zac top and mid work (I got to diamond doing Zac top and mid 3 years in a row now on all my accounts). I have also been streaming and putting videos on youtube, so you can see exactly how fun Zac used to be as I have over 500 videos showing pre rework Zac action.

So, now that I have said that, where is your basis on this rework? What experience do you have on the champion pre rework that makes you think that objectively speaking Zac is better? Is the now stabilized winrate around 40% a good indicator? How about the playrate that tanked from a stable 6.5% to 4% and dropping? You say I am just whining, how about you stop by r/thesecretweapon and explain this to all the other Zac mains dissapointed at this rework? You won't find many friends there as it is very hard to find a Zac main who thinks Zac is in a better place/more fun now.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Where is your basis on this rework? All that you have established is that you played Zac a lot and most likely really enjoyed his kit before the rework. That would explain why you don't like the rework since it changed his most powerful tool.

I feel that you are trying to claim "ownership" of Zac. That somehow all your time played with him makes you an expert on what Zac should be and how he should be designed. However it would be a lot easier if you claimed facts about the moves instead of talking about how much you play Zac. As an example, humans have been using brains for millennia but only recently have begun to really understand how they work beyond "don't let it get hit."

However you seem to ignore the fact that his Q and R were lame moves before that asked the player little more than to press the button. While there were options to put more thought into the moves on the player side rarely would it require much thought and the moves have a very simple flow chart for the player to use to decide how to execute on them. The new Q is 80% buff in my book and his ult is much more engaging in exchange for the raw power of his old one. These are the 2 points you have to argue against, not waste time talking about how much you've played Zac.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Buffs on the PBE: Knock up from E scales with charging time.

A fully charged E will knock up enemies for 1 second, which is the time you need to charge your ultimate. Yes, Zac has some problems and that's why he has a low winrate. But they are working to fix these right now.

flyingbaklava1 votes

How about they work to fix the problems before they release it to the public? How about they revert all changes until the champion is ready? How about they just leave Zac the fuck alone?

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

I disagree that you should get a second cast instead of the auto attack.

The way it is, it has upsides too. For example: the auto attack can not be body blocked, but a second skillshot could. RIght now you can Q a minion and then auto attack an enemy to get the cc off, even if he is surrounded by minions. That wouldn't work with your suggestion anymore. And most of the time, Zac has some enemies nearby anyway, because he is looking to get in the middle of the fight with his E.

Tobias Brackner2 votes

Q a minion then AA the champ

HOLY SHIT THIS IS FUCKING GENIUS

Real talk my Zac play just got 100000 times better.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfarYdfO,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-05-09T08:59:48.540+0000)

HOLY SHIT THIS IS FUCKING GENIUS

Real talk my Zac play just got 100000 times better.

I wonder why many of us assumed Q only latched on to players

Fed by Snu Snu2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfarYdfO,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-09T09:22:13.896+0000)

I wonder why many of us assumed Q only latched on to players

Probably due to champions like Kled and Riot being inconsistent in this regard.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Nah, they make it clear in the text and the champ video how the moves work.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

I knew about the minion thing, I just didn't think about Q the minion first and then AA the player.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Nah, the AA is fine. Makes it unique and is a pretty clever nerf to stop it from being super crazy.

LankPants1 votes

VS champs it would make landing his CC insanely hard though, since you'd give enemies two chances to sidestep.

What I'd do is let him reactivate it on any enemy unit as a targeted spell within the range. Just get around some of the clunkyness from tying it to his AA.

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