Not anymore,
You can go a full AD Team and still Kill a 400 armor malphite in 2 sec
but then when AP Team goes full AP they lose the game because of the Lack of Damage.
I miss the old days where you need 50% AP and 50% Ad damage in your team comp.
Niaphim28 votes
Armor? What is it?
yeah, what does this word mean?
DarkSunSovereign15 votesMeanwhile...
Magic damage? What's that?
Bladerunner77773 votesWho the hell is building that? Abyssal + AD?
dragon1xx19 votesJax.. IDK pretty much anything works on him.
SpecterVonBaren5 votesOk, I'll give you that, I can see a Jax building that.
Naag One2 voteswtf is that build on Yasuo? is that some legit new thing or just our typical everyday baseless Yasuo bashing? cause I see no attack speed on a champ whose primary source of damage is auto attacks
Pierce The Veal2 votes[{quoted}](name=Naag One,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfVPj8vh,comment-id=00060002,timestamp=2016-08-16T09:41:48.039+0000)
wtf is that build on Yasuo? is that some legit new thing or just our typical everyday baseless Yasuo bashing? cause I see no attack speed on a champ whose primary source of damage is auto attacks
No, it's not. Mages are just out for blood. This is their circlejerk.
ZT Xperimentor25 votesNot really a need when a single item outright denies tanks from doing their jobs.
I Q5 votesDenies tanks? You can build thornmail and make it so you can 1v1 a ADC who hasn't built lifesteal without even using abilities on them! That item makes 
's life a living hell! Tanks have a item that REWARDS you for standing still and allowing them to auto you.
ZT Xperimentor13 votesYeah about that; actually try it and see how effective that reflection damage is when they have a doran's blade, an item nearly every marksmen starts with, that has life steal. Not to mention runes & masteries; marksmen only have to right click to kill, like that's hard.
I Q4 votesAbout the 
, Do you honestly think it can outlifesteal? Lets do the math!
3% life steal on every auto early game your autos deal around 60-80 damage unless you take full AD runes! So you can heal 1.8 life a shot - 2.4 life a shot.
Now lets check the thornmail's BASE DAMAGE. (No armor, even your base armor) Deals: 25 MAGIC DAMAGE. So lets do that math!
25-2.4=22.6! DAMN DUDE DOES NO DAMAGE EARLY GAME!
lt's say you have 5 items and a D-Blade with no boots. Your autos depending on the build and ADC, will deal 1.2k at max (Approx.). And you will heal 36 life a shot. (btw this is on a crit, and you will not have this much AD + 100% crit chance so it might not even deal 600 damage on shot!)
While a tank at 5 items will atleast have 150 Armor with that thornmail and your boots. Lets just say you have bast 50 armor and 100 armor added with nothing else, you will add (25% of bonus armor) 25 damage to your thornmail.
That means at the MINIMUM you will deal 50 damage every auto :O
So do the math, 50-36=14 DAMN DUDE YOU DEALT MORE THEN THEY HEALED! Oh and btw 36 lifesteal with 5 items most likely will not happen in this current meta, unless you are playing jhin or cait and you won't only have a thornmail if they are the dangerous ones.
So yeah, D-Blade doesn't do shit.
And your runes and masteries will not get you more lifesteal then 10%. 10% of 1200, is 120 HP every auto, and honestly if you go full lifesteal runes then you deserve to outlifesteal that item, but STILL YOU ARE LOWERING THEIR LIFESTEAL.
ZT Xperimentor17 votesYou're overlooking something quite important; by the time a tank has bought thornmail, what do you think the marksman has obtained? They farm much better and thus be able to buy more expensive items, even a bf sword would reverse the situation. Not to mention base magic resist which reduces the reflection damage.
I Q2 votesIf you are good at LoL your farm won't be worse then an ADC's. Sure it is easier for them to farm but if my friend can get 102 CS in 10 minutes with mundo against a Zed in midlane, anything is possible.
Thornmail is relatively cheap, and even if an ADC has double your items (Which won't happen, damage ADC items are a ton more expensive DAMAGE not CRIT) he will not outheal without going OUT OF HIS WAY TO COUNTER THORNMAIL.
Buying a is 3,600 gold instead of being able to get your normal or 
not only takes WAYYYYY more time, but you have a 
, 2,350 gold with 100 armor that will lower their damage output WHILE INCREASING YOURS!
And if a 
with faces a with , the with the will will. just for 4 faces.
ZT Xperimentor13 votesHave you tried farming as a tank while your opponent keeps poking or trying to spar? I'd like to see you match a marksmen farm as a tank in a real game.
I Q2 votesI know this isn't the same thing, but I main Yasuo and Ekko, both of them I build full damage, except sometimes ill add a Trinity, ROA, Protobelt in there.
I can farm with autos against any opponent, otherwise why would I play 2 melee champions?
Ralanr7 votesWell your autos are stronger than a tanks because you build damage that amps it while tanks don't.
Skias4 votes[{quoted}](name=Shenpai Ekko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfVPj8vh,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-15T05:16:04.092+0000)
If you are good at LoL your farm won't be worse then an ADC's. Sure it is easier for them to farm but if my friend can get 102 CS in 10 minutes with mundo against a Zed in midlane, anything is possible.
Thornmail is relatively cheap, and even if an ADC has double your items (Which won't happen, damage ADC items are a ton more expensive DAMAGE not CRIT) he will not outheal without going OUT OF HIS WAY TO COUNTER THORNMAIL.
Buying a
And if a
Thornmail is a noobtrap. Its incredibly shitty.
darkestkhan3 votesI wouldn't call thornmail a noobtrap but it does falloff quite quickly - all adc needs to build is and 
. Which costs about as much as .
FreshAsFebreze8 votes[{quoted}](name=Shenpai Ekko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfVPj8vh,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-08-15T04:19:23.198+0000)
Denies tanks? You can build thornmail and make it so you can 1v1 a ADC who hasn't built lifesteal without even using abilities on them! That item makes
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH
TwinkiePro4 votesAnd what is their job? disruption. They sit in the enemy team and cause disruption, whether that is in the form of CC or body blocking, or preventing the enemy from killing your own adc.
Tanks aren't supposed to be able to outright kill anyone, and if they are, why? A full glass cannon champ should be able to kill anyone, that's the point after all.
ZT Xperimentor10 votesAnd how do you expect them to be disruptive if they die in 2 seconds?
I Q4 votesIf you build like a TANK, not a bruiser/fighter YOU WILL NOT DIE IN 2 SECONDS.
Building: 
and
isn't tank, that is bruiser. You are literally a walking ADC with double their HP, no range and half their damage output and you must of the time can only hit one person where as 
can hit 3.
Not to mention your last tank games you built:
on 
and
on 
ZT Xperimentor1 votesWhy would I build the gauge when it's been repeatedly nerfed? Why would I even buy the iceborn gauntlet when the frozen heart is flat out better? Have you looked at the extra effects of death's dance? Have you played illioui? She's a bruiser not a tank. And incorrect, I never build a rod of ages on chogath, you'd know if you actually looked at my match history.
Mandang04 votestfw you were about to compliment only one of the items on the cho build and it's the one they fervently deny ever building...
Mandang03 votesYou don't die in 2 seconds unless you suck at building.
Note that new last whisper only counters bonus armor and that all the %HP damage items suck this season. If you want it explained in more detail, here you go:
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9GEEXVjU-tank-builds-math-and-you
ZT Xperimentor11 votesBonus armor makes the majority of total armor, armor penetration has never been more abundant.
Junkο2 votesIf armor pen is so broken, then why was the old LW never OP? It has been calculated multiple times on the new LW items release, that the old LW was better in every situation below 300 armor.
Hinagiku333 votesOld Last Whisper WAS completely OP.
Were you not paying attention when Riot changed it? It was used on both Assassins, Marksmen, and sometimes Fighters. It was just plain the best damage augmenting item in the game if you did physical damage. It was good against squishies and tanks and there was never a reason to NOT buy it.
The reason tanks were so powerful back in Season 2 was because the penetration formula was different. Flat Pen used to apply first, so the more Flat Pen you got, the less effective % Pen would be. In Season 2, you stacked huge amounts of resistances and even with only a little bonus health you could be hard to kill.
Then in Season 3 Riot changed it and tanks have sucked more and more ever since. In Season 3 the focus shifted to health being the primary tank stat (see: League of Warmogs) and resistances were just something you got to help a little bit. Stacking resistances is just plain not as good as it used to be and stacking health is the only way to be tanky.
But now you've got so much % damage sources even that doesn't work...
SpecterVonBaren4 votesThe old Last Whisper WAS OP.
TwinkiePro6 votesWhat are you doing as the tank? walking up to the Ashe ADC and getting kited? Play zac, jump on their ADC, knock em up twice and their's your disruption and health to spare, as well as a kill or two.
ADC is designed to fuck everyone up late game, you have to burst them down and cc the fuck out of them, and tanks excel at quite a bit of that.
Bladerunner77773 votesIf only there were an item that reduces basic attacks by 12%
ZT Xperimentor3 votesYeah, combined with that one that has 10% reduced critical hit damage taken . . . too bad a single item boosts their damage more than the combined.
THE RlVER KlNG13 votesAnd Riot has stopped making hybrid champions too
I Q7 votesNo they didn't they are a ton of champions that they made to be hybrid.
Just this year they made 
a champion that is meant to deal hybrid damage.
THE RlVER KlNG9 votesOne champion is not convincing evidence. Their last truly hybrid champion release was maybe 
in 2012 although really truly being something like 
back in 2011. Since then Riot's champions have clear, distinct classes and kits/scalings that punish going off of one stat unless for cheese (AD Ahri, AP Zac, and such). Even their reworks have removed the possibility of off-meta or hybrid builds, on such champions as Sion and Poppy. Truly hybrid champions like Jax, Evelynn, and Kayle were some of the first ever champions and that concept has not been revisited in a very long time.
Count Zubat1 votesBecause they think it's very hard or even impossible to build against them or something like this, thus they deem hybrid builds toxic.
Sightless662 votesThat's not really the reason. The problems they had with their hybrid champions were that...
A. Almost all hybrids were better off going solely for ad or solely for ap, only splashing the other stat with stuff with triforce that even nonhybrid champs used, unless they made a hybrid item so op that all hybrid champs were forced into buying it. That was just the reality of how items stacked with thenself in this game. Given that the purpose of hybrid builds is having more item choices, forcing those champions into a set of hybrid items seems pointless
B. Most (but not all) hybrid champs played very similarly when built ad or ap. There might be a small modification in their playstyle, but usually not by much. This is particularly true for autoattacking hybrids like kayle or jax. They built whatever was best at the time and played the same no matter what it was.
C. Hybrid champs that didn't play similarly with both builds tended to have an abusive mechanic when built ap. Ap trist used cheesy instant burst, ap trynd relied on stupid unanswerable healing, ap yi doesn't even need to be mentioned, and some rioters would argue (and i would not agree) that ap kog's spammable huge range poke was abusive.
That's riot's basic argument. Difficulty building against them hasn't been a complaint riot has had for a long time.
SwiftKitten886 votesnot really...
I Q6 votesI agree.
I don't always play tanks, but when I do I never get killed that quickly. Often I am one of the last people alive EVEN WHEN I am focused.
I honestly think these people are saying "Why is it that I can be killed in 3 seconds when the entire enemy team is focusing me when I have built: 
?"
And then you realize they have only built against armor and that they are mostly building damage heavy and took swifties e.e [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Skias2 votes[{quoted}](name=Shenpai Ekko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfVPj8vh,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-08-15T04:07:40.877+0000)
I agree.
I don't always play tanks, but when I do I never get killed that quickly. Often I am one of the last people alive EVEN WHEN I am focused.
I honestly think these people are saying "Why is it that I can be killed in 3 seconds when the entire enemy team is focusing me when I have built:
And then you realize they have only built against armor and that they are mostly building damage heavy and took swifties e.e [slayer-jinx-unamused]
What? That's like 1500 health there. That should be more than enough. You shouldn't have to go full tank to survive a single burst.
I Q2 votesThat is like saying "I have 4000 HP and 20 MR, why can this 15/1 veigar one burst me?", the tools in LoL rely on you getting resists.
Skias4 votes[{quoted}](name=Shenpai Ekko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfVPj8vh,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-15T09:09:08.757+0000)
That is like saying "I have 4000 HP and 20 MR, why can this 15/1 veigar one burst me?", the tools in LoL rely on you getting resists.
How do you even get 4k HP without accidentally getting 150 of each resist? You'd have to be running the dumpster dan build.
I Q2 votesBuild this:
CeexSett7 votes3000HP may seem a lot, but when an adc crits you for 700-800 damage, if you have no armor, you are still dying in 4 to 5 hits. Getting health is more of a intimidatory effect than actaul defensive.
Dynikus3 voteswhen the enemy team is full AD, have you considered building health instead of just armor?
Teh Song1 votesNo. I do not remember this. Did it ever happen?
Dominick Destine9 votes[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfVPj8vh,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-08-15T08:44:29.503+0000)
No. I do not remember this. Did it ever happen?
Yes... armor penetration is somewhat out of control right now.
