please. stop people from first timing champions in ranked.

MunchCrunchLunch··112 votes·5,915 views

please allow only people that played. a minimum of. 10 matches in normals/bot to play them in ranked. I mean. i go look into some op.gg accounts. and these people are not bad. they have very good winrates with champions they know how to play. and i see the match where i get this 0/20 guy that just played this champion for the first time. save us and their time by doing that.

in the span of 3 matches.

i had a first time gangplank and a first time illaoi.

its a waste of time. you're not gonna magically know how to play a champion. thank you.

105 Comments

BobIII26 votes

This might sound like a good idea on paper but there are a lot of problems with this.

I've been playing this game since season 1, I know how every champion works. I've spent a lot of time watching streams, watching guides, reading the wiki, playing customs (not bot games), and keeping up with the patch notes. I have most of the ratios and cool-downs memorized, and even when I don't remember, it takes roughly 15 seconds to look up all the numbers in the wikia. There are many champions that I would be able to play if a good opportunity to succeed with them came up. I managed to reach a 70% win rate in ARAM while simultaneously owning every champion in the game.

I don't want to go into a ranked game having a competitive disadvantage because I didn't grind out the minimum of 1,320 games necessary to get 10 games on every champion.

Also, draft mode forces teams to pick in an arbitrary order. This makes trading key to counter-picking the enemy team or first-picking the strongest champions on the current patch. If players aren't allowed to pick a champion solely because they didn't grind out 10 games, they'll be losing a significant number of options to trade with their teammates.

This solution takes away strategic freedom from dedicated players who have done their research outside of the game, just to eliminate a few trolls that shouldn't have been queuing up for ranked in the first place.

ReDesign3 votes

Maybe make it at least 3 games done in non ranked with each champ so the person comes in with basic knowledge at least

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe make it at least 3 games done in non ranked with each champ so the person comes in with basic knowledge at least

you aren't gonna learn gangplank or azir in 3 games. base it on the difficulty system we have in league

Dr Poro2 votes

You aren't gonna learn Azir in 10 games either. The threshhold should be low enough to not make it too annoying but high enough to prevent the most serious cases of misuse. I think mastery lvl 2 (= 2 wins) would be better.

SoryInAdvance1 votes

then they still cant pick a champ to trade to their teammate. this entire system will never work.

Tattersall1 votes

I suddenly have more respect for the name Bob.

Jinzo Torrance10 votes

So if I main a lane that is not Top, I can't trade with my toplaner because I didn't play 10 games with his toplane champion?

Dr Poro1 votes

Positions should be tradable during picking phase if this were to be implemented. (mastery lvl 2 is better than 10games imo)

SoryInAdvance1 votes

you do realize the serious flaw in that right? if you can pick a champion and then don't trade it, you can go into the game anyway.

Dr Poro1 votes

You would only be able to pick a champion when you meet the requirement and trade champions when both of you meet the requirements. However, you should also be able to switch positions before selecting champions so that you don't need to switch champions. If I'm first pick top and I want to switch with last pick ADC I'd just swap positions instead of picking eachother's champ.

SoryInAdvance1 votes

omg...someone wants you to pick them Cassiopeia, you own her but have never played her, you cant pick it. THINK dude.

Dr Poro1 votes

Or just READ. You can't pick her cassiopeia, but if you can swap positions you don't have to. You wouldn't even need to own cassiopeia. You'd just swap between position 1 and 5 and everyone just picks their own champions. Way easier. The only reason swapping champs should stay is to allow for flex picking (picking trundle and decide whether he goes top or supp at a later point).

SoryInAdvance1 votes

you can't just switch positions in the pick order with someone which is the entire reason you pick someone for someone else...

that would be really stupid for them to do that because then support always gets shuffled to the top, then jg, then adc... it removes the strategy from picking, absolutely terrible idea all around.

Dr Poro1 votes

You reply to my post in which i said that would be necessary for this change to happen.

Shuffling the entire team can already be done. However, it's such a hassle that most people stick to their own position even when it's strategically very bad. Everything you can do with what I proposed can already been done if your team has all the champions. Shuffling positions doesn't lower the strategy, it increases it.

Support won't always be first. In some cases, a pick is so powerful/popular that you want to get it ASAP (currently: yasuo, few patches ago: Sona). Also, from where do you get the illusion that supports can't get countered? If you watch the LCS, very often they will keep the support as last pick because there are various options depending on what the enemy picked. If anything, this would increase teamplay in the soloQ environment where you'd be more open to ask for pick order swaps. Also, both players have to accept the swap. You can't force someone else to swap pick order with you. The "swap or I troll" argument could be used, but then I'd expect it to happen with role swaps already which it doesn't.

Wild Wild Smith6 votes

Gets autofilled into support, never plays any support champions. Nice.

Davarril2 votes

[deleted]

dapositiveviking16 votes

do you know what autofill is

Davarril1 votes

My bad, i thought we were talking about FILL, not autofill.

dapositiveviking1 votes

no worries!

Dr Poro1 votes

You would be required to own 16 champions that meet the requirement. Just make sure you have atleast one of every role. Playing 10 games is probably a bit too much, but atleast require mastery lvl 2 (=2 wins) to make sure they aren't first timing a champ.

Theorchero5 votes

No, restricts freedom and strategies.

I DO however think that Champs should be disabled in ranked for first week of release.

JimmyNtheKudos3 votes

If you've NEVER played the champion how is that a viable strategy? Lol wtf...

TFBaam1 votes

he means "countering"

JimmyNtheKudos3 votes

If you've never played the champion I don't care if you're Bjergsen, you have to practice first. Pros play tons of games before they play new champs on-stage. Why would any other player be any different?

Still, 10 games seems excessive. 5 is more reasonable. Though Riot would never implement this since it would hurt all future champion releases.

Chad Te Employee3 votes

I went 16/14 first time nocturne and 9/10 gangplank. So no I disagree sir

JimmyNtheKudos5 votes

Those are not good scores... Why would you think that's reasonable?

Chad Te Employee2 votes

because im not feeding, obviously not perfect, but they are so-so

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

I would call that feeding especially the 16/14 score

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chad Te Employee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XdxbpHn9,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-09-04T16:07:23.616+0000)

I went 16/14 first time nocturne and 9/10 gangplank. So no I disagree sir

and thats actually good? 14 deaths. is just bad.

SociopathFriend3 votes

But here's the thing- that's limiting Player Choice- which is almost never considered a good idea. You (royal you) as a player may have paid actual currency to own that champion. Or you played and spent in-game currency on the champion. Bottom line- you earned the right to play that champion. Normal match? Fine, you earned it. Off-meta? Fine, you earned it. Custom game-modes? Fine, you earned it. But Ranked? Ranked is the exception? Nope- it's still a game-type in the game, that's all that's required to use the champion.

This would take that right away from people- it limits players. You don't WANT to do that- that's why Riot tries to preserve alternate builds and playstyles- it's almost NEVER good to purposefully limit people.

Is first-timing dumb? Absolutely- almost everyone I know who plays this game insists it's better to play someone you know in a bad match-up rather than first-time a champion you don't. Is your change going to harm anyone? Not really- no. But I still do not believe it's a good idea as it also doesn't help anyone- most people will accrue those X number of games in ARAM relatively quickly and then be right back at the "I never use this champion so I don't know how to use them effectively".

Personally- I hate Draft. I think it's one of the main reasons I don't play Ranked- the other being that you can have AFKs and DCs (I had a legit 3v5 match in my promos) and while they're bearable in Normals- they're much moreso in Ranked.

Aeszarck1 votes

{quoted}

But here's the thing- that's limiting Player Choice- which is almost never considered a good idea. You (royal you) as a player may have paid actual currency to own that champion. Or you played and spent in-game currency on the champion. Bottom line- you earned the right to play that champion. Normal match? Fine, you earned it. Off-meta? Fine, you earned it. Custom game-modes? Fine, you earned it. But Ranked? Ranked is the exception? Nope- it's still a game-type in the game, that's all that's required to use the champion.

This would take that right away from people- it limits players. You don't WANT to do that- that's why Riot tries to preserve alternate builds and playstyles- it's almost NEVER good to purposefully limit people.

Is first-timing dumb? Absolutely- almost everyone I know who plays this game insists it's better to play someone you know in a bad match-up rather than first-time a champion you don't. Is your change going to harm anyone? Not really- no. But I still do not believe it's a good idea as it also doesn't help anyone- most people will accrue those X number of games in ARAM relatively quickly and then be right back at the "I never use this champion so I don't know how to use them effectively".

Personally- I hate Draft. I think it's one of the main reasons I don't play Ranked- the other being that you can have AFKs and DCs (I had a legit 3v5 match in my promos) and while they're bearable in Normals- they're much moreso in Ranked.

Well written! I think your points are valid, and I'm inclined to agree with them.

morris11 votes

But do you really call it limitation when it only requires you to play a few games (if not 1) to allow access in ranked? If you buy a car but don't have driver's license you shouldn't be allowed to drive just because you paid for it. I don't see how anyone can be bothered to play at least 1 normal to even figure out their champion before taking them into a mode where everyone wants to win. Doing that is just neglecting your teammates' expectations from a player who should tryhard in a tryhard environment. Noone wants to see a first time Yasuo in ranked. And I mean noone.

SociopathFriend1 votes

Yes- it's still a limitation. It's a punishment with no reward.

I agree in principle- I don't think you should ever first-time something in Ranked. However- that doesn't mean I think it's something that needs to be prevented. It's a decision they, as a player, have to make- whether they want a champion they know or a champion they don't. It's not about "First-time" so much as "familiar vs unfamiliar".

Why should Riot take that decision away?

Your car analogy is off- cars are deadly things that can kill you if used wrong and others if used even more wrong. The license also serves as a punishment in that it can be taken away if you don't listen to the rules. Not to mention there are rules to begin with for a license and driving in general.

In comparison- LoL is a game. You do not lose a champion if you do badly. And there are nearly no rules to how a champion is to be used.

The fact that people have no idea how many games should be required (1? 3? 5? 10?) is pretty telling in that it's not a good idea. You can't measure experience all that well- only by actions can it truly be discovered. I know people who can play the same champion over and over again- that doesn't mean they're good with them.

Sylvant2 votes

thats an awesome idea, i cant believe its not implanted yet. A simple requirement to have atleast 10 games with a champion, or a certain mastery level could be great

DrCyanide2 votes

I think Riot needs to explain why people can first time champions in Ranked, yet they don't allow the free rotation queue to be free in Ranked. The two policies contradict each other.

Niaphim2 votes

I'm hugely for this. I just can't count the number of losses I had just because my team had most picks played 2-3 games and no experience in previous seasons while the enemy team had 50+ games every member. It is just painful to watch people struggle with champion most basic mechanics in plat where experienced people start to make proper and fast plays like "Insecs" and other cool stuff.

I mean, I've probably won some against first-timers as well, but stomps are not really fun.

Also, it should be normals, not coop vs ai, and wins, not games. Maybe 5 wins instead of 10 games. It is not to annoy people, sometimes a champion is just not your style at all.

theArtifacts2 votes

It's strategy in that on that particular account you may not have played that champ but you could main it on another account. Enemy looks you up and thinks "GGEZ" and you stomp them.

Blocking first time champs in ranked isn't viable for the reason of multiple accounts. I agree that you 100% should not play a champ for the first time in ranked, however stupid is as stupid does.

Teh Song5 votes

People shouldn't have multiple accounts.

Frankly, I don't think all that info about players should even be available to others in the first place, but given that it is that "strategy" you speak of is basically a form of cheating.

Not xPeke1 votes

Why shouldn't players have multiple accounts?

There's many reasons to have more than one account.

You could be bored of your elo and you try to make a new account and see how far/fast you can climb on that one. (for example set yourself a goal: unranked to Diamond in #s of days). You could want to play with friends that are lower elo (even in normals, not just ranked) without raising the team's MMR substantially which would introduce higher skilled players to be against your "newbies" friends. You could want to try climbing ranked on a different account because you messed up your MMR and/or winrate on your main account and want to start fresh.

Do I need to go on?

Teh Song2 votes

Your first example translates to "I want to go noob stomping." which is a troll goal people shouldn't have.

"Starting fresh" as per your 3rd example is pointless: Your MMR will return to where it should be, and your win-rate will balance at 50%, same as it would on a new account; so you haven't actually changed anything by going to a new account, except you have to reacquire everything. I had a year-long gap where I didn't play this game. When I came back last month I went back to my old level 30 account. Naturally, I didn't return at the same skill level I left at. I almost thought about starting a new account myself, but I decided against it due to the combination of the reasoning stated earlier this paragraph and the notion that I might end up playing legitimately new players who might not be prepared to fight a returnee. I'm not a troll, I don't go noob stomping.

Your second example is gaming the MMR system and is essentially cheating. Those higher skill players need to be on the enemy team to balance out your presence on yours. Just as your friends don't want the other higher elo's you'd drag onto the enemy team, your opponents don't want you on your friends team. On top of that, you'd just end up dragging your friends to a higher elo than their skill levels, and they'd have to fall back down if they played without you.

None of your reasons are valid.

Not xPeke1 votes

If you can't look at things objectively I don't know what else to say.

How is my first example the same as "I want to go noob stomping"? You could have had an account for ages in Diamond. You're bored. You make a fresh account and set a goal to climb up from unranked to Diamond in 10 days. Many streamers do that. In absolutely NO way is it "wanting to go noob stomping". Unless YOU want/need to interpret it that way. It is your own choice to interpret it that way, not only is it wrongly interpreted, but it is also cowardly to try and twist the reality behind things to prove your point. It doesn't translate to wanting to go noob stomping unless you WANT it to mean that, even though it doesnt.

It's actually not pointless to start fresh. Like I clearly stated in my previous reply a player might have messed up their MMR and winrate by playing with friends (random example). This player then proceeds to win smaller amounts of LP per game. He then makes a fresh account and climbs even higher than on his previous account because of the limitations set by having affected his MMR and winrate.

Plus what if a player is high elo and has super long queue's to find a game? Why shouldn't he make a new account? If he wants to play a game and not wait 30+minutes he's at liberty to do so. He's not doing it to noob stomp, obviously he probably will until he reaches a higher elo, but he's not doing it for that reason! So don't label him as such.

Also, what's wrong with having to reacquire everything? That's exactly the point sometimes. That's why we create a second account. To test yourself. See if you're really worthy of the elo your main account is in, and try and rank up to that a second time, which reconnects to my previous point about setting a goal for yourself.

That's a cool story, that has nothing to do with the discussion unfortuantely. Also tone it down with your attitude, not everyone that makes a smurf is out there to troll or go "noob stomping". You only make yourself look salty, butthurt, and quite frankly, jealous.

Oh and please, please don't be blinded by your hate and bias. You say my second example is essentially cheating, except you clearly can't read or CHOOSE not to see things objectively. I clearly said normals as well. But of course you choose to interpret and focus on the things that help your point, instead of actually what is being talked about, making it seem like I agree with boosting people.

Do you think that when I play with my lower elo friends for example, I play 100%?. No. I go ham, play super aggressive on purpose, test new builds, new champs in new positions, tower dive for fun, etc. And I just honestly don't give my 100% effort and skill level. So I'm not ruining the enemy team's game by being "too good" the same way that having my "noob" friends in my team could have theirs by being matched against a Diamond for example.

And you know what, sue me then. Sue me for wanting to play with friends, SMH. It's not my fault they are lower elo or just started playing the game. Of course I'm not going to drag high elo players in game with them.

You're so arrogant giving statements like yours. My reasons are as valid as your reasons for not liking a player having more than one account. Cry me a river if you don't like it, your opinion isn't worth more than mine and never will be. Humble down and don't make yourself appear so arrogant and biased in the future. I respect you don't like having multiple accounts, but that is YOUR opinion. You have no right to look down and judge other people if they choose to have one. You especially have no right to do so when you twist and ignore the reasons WHY someone makes a second account.

You would have looked better just admitting those are valid reasons but also simply not agreeing with having a second account anyway. Instead of trying to manipulate what is being said and interpreting things the wrong way to help your argument.

Teh Song1 votes

Well, that was a long response. Which might mean either that you wanted to get everything out because you don't want to return to this conversation, or that you'd like to start a debate on it. If it's the former I won't expect a response, if it's the latter I will oblige you, and if you're somewhere in the middle take your pick. I'm going to number my paragraphs to match yours to keep track of what I'm replying to, instead of trying to reply to the whole thing at once.

1&3. Boredom is a nuisance, and self-challenge is great, but the intentions of the smurf do not change what the action they're taking is. THAT is looking at it objectively. On their way back up on their new account, they are noob stomping. It doesn't have to be their intention, it's still what they're doing. The player did it for a fun challenge, the streamers did it for that and for views, and some trolls blatantly do it out of desire to noob-stomp. Intentions are great and all, and personally I actually wish the worlds legal systems factored them into judgments more, but they only mean so much, and the action taken is still the same. Sometimes good people do bad things for good reasons. This would be a small example of that.

  1. Whether it's on a new account or ones original, one's mmr will reach the same value. On the new account or old, one will end up earning/losing the same LP per win/loss in a given rank. It may take a bit longer to rank up, as you wait for your LP gains to return to normal, but you will rank up the same either way. Anything one might do on their second account, they could have done on their first, and they could have done it without leveling up again.

That's for your given premise to starting fresh, to respond to the words "Starting Fresh" themselves without the specific sub-reasoning you provided: There actually is one reason I currently know of that I consider a valid reason for starting anew, and per this reason I have started over in games myself, both single and multiplayer (will stick to multiplayer for the purposes of this discussion of course). The reason is simply having not played for a long enough time. Now of course that raises the question of how long you should have been gone before resetting yourself. I look at it as a factor of how much knowledge and skill decay you may have had. It would also vary with the person, so I couldn't give you a value. Apparently for me it's over a year, for some people it might not be. For all it's potential skill difference, LoL isn't particularly complicated in it's mechanics. When I came back after that year I mentioned before, I just did some bot matches to check up on basic mechanics and get started relearning champions; and I really did consider starting over, but I felt the game was simple enough it wouldn't take 30 levels to get back into. If you go into my post history you'll actually see a thread upon return asking people for opinions about whether or not there should be level &/or elo/mmr decay if one is gone long enough. I was one of the people who voted yes, because just as I didn't want new players to have to play against me if I started over, I didn't want the people actually at the elo/mmr I had when I left to have to play with me. There are other, more complicated games, that I reset myself after only a few months gone. It's all relative to the game in that respect.

  1. Connects back my my second paragraph responding to your second one. There's nothing wrong with reacquiring everything, and it is indeed one of the premises to my restarting a game after being gone to long. For relearning a game you left, or if you simply really enjoying the feeling of unlocking stuff, the ability to reset and not have everything is great. All I meant in my original reply to your original comment was firstly that for most (I imagine) people it's a downside, and that if you haven't unlearned the game, then there isn't really a point to having to unlock things again.

5,9&10. I wasn't putting any attitude into my words. It's not that I hate smurfing or people for doing it, I plainly don't understand it. It doesn't make sense to me. If you look into my post history you'll find a thread where I asked the community why they do it; some of the responses had reasons like yours that don't seem applicable to me, and some of them actually provided reasons that make sense and seem valid to me. For example, one guy says he keeps an extra account to buy & test champions on before getting them on his real account. He keeps that account under level 30 for the double IP gains. I suppose that would come with the unintentional noob stomping as well, but same as you he presumably doesn't play his best. He also has accounts that exist only for the purpose of clan tags.

Anyhow I can understand how my not-understanding why most people do it might come off as hatred and bias in a forum comment that doesn't come with the social ques of speech. All I can do for that is tell you I don't hate those people, I'm not mad or anything, I just don't get it. I'm not ignoring your reasons, I just can't see them as reasons in the first place. To use an "extreme" comparison; by telling me those thoughts are valid reasons, it's like you're telling me 2+2=5. You could be from some other universe where it does indeed equal 5, but the concept goes against my understanding of everything.

6,7,&8. I didn't say anything about Ranked or boosting. I too, was talking about normals. Do you really think a cheating action is somehow less cheating in a normal match? (I'm assuming no, but similarly to how you thought I was all hatey this would be a case of typed words seeming like they held a connotation they didn't.) I responded to your words, and did not "twist" any of them. Not sure why you assumed I was talking about Ranked when you weren't.

Your aversion to dragging higher elo players into your friends enemies team shows that you understand that it's a bad thing to make them play with better players. Which shows that you understand it bad for you to force the players on the other team to play against you. The fact that you'd use a smurf just to play with them comes off as hypocritical. That said, I can respect you restraining yourself, more so if you actively attempt to match the skill level of your opponents, which I imagine would be it's own challenge to do without over/under doing it. I'll be honest, if I made a smurf, I might not have that self-control once in a match. I'd go in intending to match my opponents, but I'd probably end up playing normally and reduce their experience. Another reason for me personally not to smurf I suppose.

I suppose if we are going to make a debate out of this, we ought to move it to my thread asking people why they smurf.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/sogwikTg-why-do-people-have-multiple-accounts

Not xPeke1 votes

I'm posting my reply on that thread then, thanks.

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

Multiple accounts is against the Summoner code XD

Jonxx2 votes

No it's not. Only account sharing is, so maybe you've mistaken the two.

Alorrin012 votes

I save my daily -3 dodge for just this scenario, and for being the fifth in a premade four who all have the same club tag. Yes, one of those guys who looks up all of his teammates before the game to see if they're playing a new champ/have a horrible win percent with said champ/on a long losing streak with crap kda to see if it's worth a dodge. Started this season, working like a charm. I'm happy to just play Aram until my next -3 is ready. Enjoy your 6 minute queue timer waiting for another support you troll/dynamic queuer.

Infiddelsticks1 votes

So I'm not the only one who has noticed that being solo and matched with a premade 4 nearly guarantees a loss? I really hate dynamic queue. Also, if any one of them decides they don't like you, it's auto report x4.

Dr Poro1 votes

So you're saying that premade 4s almost always lose? Because there will always be a soloQer in their tema with a 'nearly guaranteed' loss.

Maybe it's just your playstyle/attitude towards premades that makes the game more difficult when you find out that there are premades.

notmebuthim2 votes

I like how sometimes a post about this will get -20 votes, and other times it gets +80.

Asudurga2 votes

Exactly, it's honestly just favouritism amongst community members.

More from Gameplay

More by MunchCrunchLunch