For new players complaining about Lethality

ModCaptainMårvelous··7 votes·1,740 views

No, this is not a unique situation. There HAVE been worse situations with items.

Example time!

  • Black Cleaver of S3

The Black Cleaver you know today was not the original idea. Xyph actually changed it from an old item (BF sword + Dagger) into the tanky DPS item it's "meant" to be today. However, it wasn't unique and FAR more powerful. It was also one of the first items I recall that interacted with AD abilities. Thus, there were games of people stacking black cleaver and nothing but black cleaver.

  • Targon Madness of Late S3

Late Season 3 was the advent of the support items you know today...except Targon was insane. Everyone could run targon, the heal was 2% of your maximum health and the execute wasn't melee-only (But that got hotfixed). The sad part is that this actually allowed double melee bot to function for a bit. RIP.

  • 4.20 Weedwick

While Warwick was the biggest abuser, the devourer + smite changes in 4.20 caused a surge of people taking this item and becoming unstoppbale gods of the rift. If you had auto-attacks and you could abuse this? Hell yeah you were gonna abuse it. Warwick was jsut the worst offender and boosted his winrate to around 60% win rate. (Yes, even higher than some of the champs you complain about now).

  • Sterak's Funhouse

Remember Sterak's? Remember when it was too powerful and EVERYONE remotely AD was building it? Yeah.

  • Heart of Gold, Wallet of Platinum

Gold per 5 items used to actually be considered garbage. "Lol u cant last hit so ur getting a gp5 item". Then people realized if you were good at last hitting -and- you got a GP5 item, you were gonna make bank. And there were like four of them. All with non-unique passives. Stacking dank cash money on almost every character.

  • The Granddaddy of them All: Zhyona's Ring

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/9/9e/Zhonya%27s_Ring_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130319094510

Look at this shit. Look. At. This. Shit.

120 AP +25% AP And the Zhonya's Statis

You want to talk about broken? Look at this. An incredible stat efficient item. Offensive and Defensive Boosting. Gold efficient out the ass. To this day, this is the only item so good that Riot had to cut it in half because deleting it from the game would be too crippling for APs. If you were AP, you built this. You might even build this because of the statline and defensive capabilities being so good.

Lethality items aren't a new concept. Items run rampant between bad and good all the time. Just please stop saying that "This is OBJECTIVELY the worst time there EVER was when it comes to item!". Because you're wrong. We've gotten through much, much, much worse times in League and there will likely be a time in the future where Riot botches a new item and makes everyone say it made lethality look balanced.

38 Comments

Ahristocats6 votes

pointless thread it's pointless to look at what was worse before, right now lethality is a problem that should be fixed

ProfDrDeath3 votes

And it will be fixed.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

It holds merit when the prevailing thought is that things were NEVER worse before and that this is the pinnacle of terrible decisions. I'm not saying lethality doesn't need changes but it's blatantly false to argue that "This is the WORST"

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

You know the funny part?

According to Riot, most players didn't even use the active.

50000000000000001 votes

And the win rate of common DFG users went up after removing DFG lol

hunterspec1 votes

[{quoted}](name=SwaT 10,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbNMr5sM,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-02-19T19:21:29.043+0000)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DPn3JCWUGRk/hqdefault.jpg :(

yeah when are they brining it back?

legionnaire991 votes

why would they?

hunterspec1 votes

{quoted}

why would they?

what do you mean? To make the game fun again like it used to be?

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

One of the primary complaints people have is the damage of the game.

You want to add an item that dealt 15% of their total HP as magic damage and gave a debuff that increased all magic damage dealt to that champion by 20%.

w h u t

Automated Riven1 votes

the fuck. that isnt even the real dfg. the real dfg did 15% of your max health and scaled on ap. late in the game is was just a nuke that did like 60% of a targets max health.

legionnaire991 votes

So the way you will make the game fun again it's to make it three can only play Leblanc or fizz for ahri or Vigar Or just play different Campion your face trials I want to the Fort Mill Lane is as healthy as right after that item was removed I don't see why you want to back

hunterspec1 votes

{quoted}

So the way you will make the game fun again it's to make it three can only play Leblanc or fizz for ahri or Vigar Or just play different Campion your face trials I want to the Fort Mill Lane is as healthy as right after that item was removed I don't see why you want to back

that would be great since people complain that jizz sucks and veigar's win rate sucks because cancer of night

Penns3 votes

Look at this shit. Look. At. This. Shit. 120 AP +25% AP And the Zhonya's Statis You want to talk about broken? Look at this. An incredible stat efficient item. Offensive and Defensive Boosting. Gold efficient out the ass.

Reminds me of something...http://pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-9/256/thinking-face.png

item 3156 xd

dunder kill3 votes

Not even remotely close

Penns1 votes

It had 0 armor, honestly doesnt even look that good lol. If I had to decide Id probably rather have an AP maw over Zhonyas Ring.

dunder kill1 votes

It only cost 3400G lol

Penns1 votes

And thats probably the only broken thing about it. If it costed as much as Rabadons now it wouldnt be that good imo. Active was shorter too. Even with the 3460 cost Id rather have fking 1200 effective HP from an AP Maw as well as 10% spell vamp, 10% cdr, around 40 armor and around 110 AP total when the passive activates...

dunder kill1 votes

You're nuts. That item was insanely broken. Hence why it was removed

Penns1 votes

Well it was removed in like season 1 or something, idk how good it was back then. Doesnt seem that broken now.

Modi1 votes

Think the TT item item 3090 , but on SR. Basically you are talking merging (and only slightly nerfing) item 3089 + item 3157. Imagine if AP didn't ever need to have two items to get the stasis active and the % AP boost. YOu are talking giving every mage an extra item.

Penns1 votes

And is Wooglets that gamebreaking there? I mean it also has armor, a longer active effect and only slightly less AP and there is a ranked mode for TT... I think at least, if anyone plays that map Kappa

legionnaire991 votes

TT games are a ton shorter you normal only get one idem maybe 2

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

It's not because the game is designed around a faster pace. Wooglets is necessary because paying 6k for both zhonya's and rabbadons isn't really feasible. You need better items faster. Hence why item 3170 is on TT but item 3512 isn't.

Automated Riven1 votes

not to mention its the only ap item on tt to have 100 AP. you need to be gifted an extra item as an ap champ to even hit relevent ap counts later in the game.

Modi1 votes

The point is, having only a single item for that massive power spike in normals would be significantly game altering. Would it be breaking? Maybe not, but I would err in the side that it is not the best move for the game at the moment. Marksmen are having a hell of a time as it is. A Wooglets-like item has the potential to shove all marksmen out of the bot lane entirely.

Irelia Bot2 votes

While all had their clear disregard for likely buyers, outside of league of Cleavers I don't recall seeing 4 of an item on a team for the ones mentioned. BV on the others hand has had periods of being bought by everyone in a game.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

Good examples. Another one: Release Feral Flare.

15 AD, 35% AS, 30% bonus gold from monsters, collecting one stack per kill, assist and large monster kill... and an on-hit effect that dealt 33 (+stacks) magic damage to enemy champions (tripled against non-champions)...and the same on-hit effect healed 10 (+stacks) HP on-hit. Oh, and all that for 1650 gold and killing 25 large monsters.

Big Lincoln1 votes

Sterak's Funhouse Remember Sterak's? Remember when it was too powerful and EVERYONE remotely AD was building it? Yeah.

no? i remember ADCs being too good with it and getting it nerfed; i don't recall its intended users being a problem with the item.

dunder kill3 votes

Every single AD bruiser in the game bought this thing too

Big Lincoln1 votes

that was because they could stack it with item 3156 and get 2 enormous shields and shit all over everyone

and ranged ADs took that synergy and made it even more egregious

Sterak's by its own was never an issue on the champs it was meant for

getrektnoobsGG1 votes

good old Preseason 5 WW.

that were times.

Papa Andrei1 votes

Oh look! Wooglets Witchcap that is almost the exact same thing but grantd armor also! Ye it still exists

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Oh look! Wooglets Witchcap is on a map where the average game duration is far shorter, costs a different price and overall is suited for a map designed around faster gameplay.

Notice how it's not on SR. In which case you'd have an actual comparison.

SomeOneButNoOne1 votes

I'm dissapointed at this. There's no Feral Flare wich was by far the worse offender then even the zhonya's ring basicly.

So whoever didn't play this game when feral flare exsisted, sit down, and lemmy tell you a story! :-)

So not sure wich season this was, but Udyr, master yi & xin zhao were the most often picked bunch. Now, the devouerer was "OH EM GE OP!" But now imagine this: Devouerer that stacked infinitely! Jungle camps respawn timer 30-45seconds (not 100% sure may have been 1 minute TOPS, but I'm pretty sure it was low af) And instead of the double proc of your onhits you got this: 15AD 35% AS 30% bonus gold from camps base damage being 33 after 25 camps killed. 10 healing per autoattack + 1 per camp killed.

You know how a fed warwick can barely solo baron atm? Well, you had a 0/0/0 afk farming udyr do the same thing with Feral flare + spirit stone at 20th minute. Oh WW could do it aswell, and master yi, but udyr did it better since he was naturaly more tanky + he had a shield.

Let me just remind you it stacked INFINITELY. A game lasts 60 minutes? No problem, yi has 100 stacks e-z, p-z. :P

SwiftKitten881 votes

i think the main thing to take out of this post is... yes it isn't the first time something was crazy op...

and yet there is a REASON why everything u listed was REMOVED from the game or severely nerfed, just like lethality needs to be

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

And it will be.

Doesn't mean these all didn't have a point of existing and it doesn't mean lethality was "the worst it's ever been". (Personally I'd consider Black Cleaver stacking worse)

More from Gameplay

More by CaptainMårvelous