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The time when SS is on your Support

Teslyn··6 votes·769 views

People lack the understanding of when a support buys a sight stone and the reasons they do.

If the ADC sits under tower and doesnt poke... no jungler support... and basically bot is getting hammered. expect a item 2049 around 28 - 30 mins

If ADC is smashing lane... jungler has been giving his time 'effectively' and gold is flowing.. item 2049 8-12mins

if ADC is stale mated and bot is just a poke battle.. kills going one way and the other but nothing major.. item 2049 18-20 mins

if all lanes have dominated and you are pushing on enemy Tier 3 turrets.. dont expect a item 2049 till pressure is halted. Sight is secondary when so hyper ahead... the mindset is basically push to win.

When a Support has a item 2049 and the team keeps walking into the darkness and dying.. expect the support to sell the item 2049 and purchase combat stats .. and a item 3462. Vision is only as good as you let it be.

When 'ADC' is garbo and should be the one buying the item 2049... expect a '/mute' and a support to start taking the CS. This is a team game and if you are so behind the resources required to get you combat effective is too much.. 'ADC' should get the item 2049 and be a team player letting the ones who are carrying to continue to carry.

______ you can stop reading here _____

This is a game about resources and resource allocation. think of it in a BCA (Buisness cost analysis) perspective. let this be a class of the adult world for a moment.. because i dont think people think about this game properly.

Some items you are going to keep till the end of the game others you are going to sell or build into other items now if we start going into MTA we will start to realize that items take resources to make..

how many minions is a SS you ask? as a support i spend all my Gold at the start and i buy a item 3303 and pots. +2g every 10 secs

after the first wave you can expect your support to have >40g and the adc to have >100g a wave every 30 seconds.... that puts 800g at around the 12 min mark.. think about that.. getting no gold and sitting there doing nothing as a support and i cant afford a item 2049 till 12 mins. seriously..

i plan on harassing because of my item choice and i have to sacrifice a mastery for more gold as well.. bandit giving me 3g everytime i auto someone (because i am ranged) and give me 1g for every minion that dies around me

if you understand .. and all gold spend after the start for a item 2049 it can be made around 6:30 in game.. but this does leave your support basically a ward bot. unless you can 1v2 i highly advise against this. this covers harassing and stealing a CS here and there. maybe some assist gold maybe... but its no set in stone moment.

________________ now to complain__________

If you BOT lane and a support wants you to be alittle more aggressive it is possibly because of their gold income item they need to proc or they just need that little bit... they may understand their champ power spike more than you... they may need that early advantage because they need to run with it.

_no such thing as a carry you tell me you are a Carry .. then i tell you i am a Mage.. thats how this works.. its bot lane / support .. down there.. i am not your baby sitter.. i am in a position that is less valued but can be an amazing benefit to have. i plan on carrying some games.. and getting carried... i plan on helping and some games dieing excessively .. i plan on warding in games or i am taking every kill and expect other people to be mature enough to pick up the duty.

who am i?____ i am a guy if i make a smurf it will be plat very shortly .. some people may not think that as anything amazing.. but it does show that i am in the Top 10% and have seen mid to higher..ish game play... i do top out around D3 .. and then dance around D5 and back up.. .. I am not a solo carry player... i play support.. i can drag you through a game, but i actually need a functional team.. not one that carries every lane.. i can work with 1 lane feeding and 2 scrub lanes.. but when 2 lanes feed .. i have issues.. because its normally a sign that the enemy is going to start roaming and i cannot 1v4 3 fed people ... ..

________why say these things? because sometimes you're the carry and other times you get carried... be mature enough to understand as a person in the bot lane roll when you should buy a item 2049

and remember.. when they say 'Bot lane is so bad' that is one roll.. dont think that the 'support' is getting roped into that critique.. when you Que as Bot lane...

(this is just the tip of things people should think about.. so when i give you just a tip.. take it and enjoy it.)

29 Comments

CerealBoxOfDoom3 votes

if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too.

Duke Anax3 votes

If you hug tower anyway I'm certainly not gonna be inclined to waste gold on a sightstone then.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XWwO1hVP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-07-16T16:22:08.873+0000)

If you hug tower anyway I'm certainly not gonna be inclined to waste gold on a sightstone then.

I'm hugging tower because you wont ward

I'm telling you to stop touching the fucking minions because we can't afford to push

I'm getting hp instead of damage because their diving jungler wont be stopped by this tower and we need to be moving but we aren't. We could actually be less safe under tower in some cases since we can't keep the 3+ enemies separated during a gank

I might just get my own sightstone to compensate for your irresponsible decisions. Its not a matter of inclination, nobody cares what you are inclined to do. You do your job or you don't and we all pay the price.

If you don't ward I'm going to play like there's no vision. If you have no hp I'm not going to try and save you by wasting important resources If you take all kills and die you are going to feed even harder so no I'm also not going to agree with the risky as shit engage now and I'm certainly not going to want to later. If you take my cs no, I am not going to go join teamfights and when I am ready to do so if there is no vision I may take even longer No I will not split push without vision of the enemy. If you are not providing vision I will not attempt to push quickly, I will continue focusing on maximizing income No, I will not chase those 2 opponents with 10hp into the unwarded jungle you should have been warding during the teamfight to begin with. If top is there he might be able to get away with that shit but I'm not going with you to get shadowmarked, leblinked, and demacia'd.

KitsuneKrash1 votes

It's not like everybody at the beginning of the game can get a free warding trinket or at lv9 can grab blue trinket that can be placed from 2.5 times farther away then normal wards.

While I build SS every time I support (rare as I support), it always triggers me that most players think warding is solely the job of support & jungle.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

{quoted}

It's not like everybody at the beginning of the game can get a free warding trinket or at lv9 can grab blue trinket that can be placed from 2.5 times farther away then normal wards.

While I build SS every time I support (rare as I support), it always triggers me that most players think warding is solely the job of support & jungle.

trinket doesn't last long enough and isn't in play often enough. Additionally against some supports like

Blitzcrank Sona Thresh Nautilus Leona

its extremely helpful to be able to have another ward in the lane bush as well.

PhDs Nuts3 votes

{quoted}

trinket doesn't last long enough and isn't in play often enough. Additionally against some supports like

Blitzcrank Sona Thresh Nautilus Leona

its extremely helpful to be able to have another ward in the lane bush as well.

And if Leona has bush control, you can't ward it with the trinket anyway. AA-Q-AA combo stops that real quick. If you're wasting more than one charge on that bush, you're blind elsewhere.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

And if Leona has bush control, you can't ward it with the trinket anyway. AA-Q-AA combo stops that real quick. If you're wasting more than one charge on that bush, you're blind elsewhere.

don't need more than one charge, cant afford even 1 if support isn't going to ward seriously though.

Duke Anax1 votes

I need exactly one pink and one yellow to cover the river for both mid and bot. Feel free to ward the bush.

KitsuneKrash1 votes

In cases like those, the support can rarely get near the bush safely to ward. Hence why I mentioned blue trinket. The adc can use it from farther than their skills can reach to check if a bush is safe to ward in the first place & allow the support to have a chance to safely ward a bush.

For as often as I see an adc complain about support not warding or dying when warding, I rarely see them get blue trinket at 9 so that the support can safely ward. Just because a support buys SS, doesn't mean an adc can't ward or help their support be able to ward safely.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

In cases like those, the support can rarely get near the bush safely to ward. Hence why I mentioned blue trinket. The adc can use it from farther than their skills can reach to check if a bush is safe to ward in the first place & allow the support to have a chance to safely ward a bush.

For as often as I see an adc complain about support not warding or dying when warding, I rarely see them get blue trinket at 9 so that the support can safely ward. Just because a support buys SS, doesn't mean an adc can't ward or help their support be able to ward safely.

if they don't get SS I'm not going to bother warding something or another unless the situation changes for some reason which I'll be actively avoiding while I continue waiting on SS. Until then garen is in every bush and support is trying to kill me.

KitsuneKrash1 votes

Likewise, I wouldn't bother building SS if my adc expects me to commit suicide trying to ward for them. It's a Catch 22

Duke Anax1 votes

Lol, most of that hasn't even got anything to do with vision.

If we had to move around a lot I'd buy sightstone no prob. But if we are hugging bot I need exactly two wards in the river, one pink and one yellow to cover mid bot and dragon.

I could get more wards for jungle, but then you'd be complaining about the support not saving you ass when you engage 1v3. So I'd rather buy some items to do that better.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XWwO1hVP,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-16T19:47:49.254+0000)

Lol, most of that hasn't even got anything to do with vision.

If we had to move around a lot I'd buy sightstone no prob. But if we are hugging bot I need exactly two wards in the river, one pink and one yellow to cover mid bot and dragon.

I could get more wards for jungle, but then you'd be complaining about the support not saving you ass when you engage 1v3. So I'd rather buy some items to do that better.

Then we'd be in sync...

"if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too."

People make it sound like there's some argument to be made while they more or less passively synergize with me.

If you don't get SS I'll assume youre an untrustworthy asshole and the jungler is in the bush 24/7 If I don't go take a risk before you decide to not be an untrustworthy asshole then youre gonna be an untrustworthy asshole and do your thing

Its like we read each other's minds, everybody wins!

Teslyn1 votes

{quoted}

if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too.

cereal.. i have been respectful and stayed off your forums for the last few years.. i remember your name.. believe me we had a clash on the old system.. please be respectful and not post on my things.. thank you.. and when you want to start climbing elo and playing the game correctly .. you can friend me and i can give you some advice... till than .. have a good day.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

cereal.. i have been respectful and stayed off your forums for the last few years.. i remember your name.. believe me we had a clash on the old system.. please be respectful and not post on my things.. thank you.. and when you want to start climbing elo and playing the game correctly .. you can friend me and i can give you some advice... till than .. have a good day.

if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too. if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too. if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too. if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too. if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too. if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too. if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too. if support does not buy sightstone I am going to hug tower and hope they don't fuck that up too.

I'm just going to toss a boosted animal argument at you and watch your weak argument try to stand on its own. I don't have much reason to give you any special treatment and I didn't ask for it from you. I don't remember you or what we clashed over but I imagine I was probably right.

exiledFromBadmen2 votes

I always rush sightstone first when I am playing support, but I am cursed when I tell a support to buy sightstone.

Environmentalist1 votes

Sightstone at 12 mins? Are you afk for the first 8? I get sightstone on first back almost every time.

Teslyn1 votes

{quoted}

Sightstone at 12 mins? Are you afk for the first 8? I get sightstone on first back almost every time.

i am not AFK.. i just like getting to a higher elo than people who believe SS is the key the victory.. i actually laugh sometime about abusing the enemy support for being a 'good support'. its honestly like.. look at that good support for buying a SS.. now i am going to poke them out of lane and abuse them and they wont be able to anything to me for another 5-8 mins..

Environmentalist2 votes

Surprisingly, unless you're bronze 5, you can poke AND buy a sightstone. Poof, crazy concept.

Teslyn1 votes

{quoted}

Surprisingly, unless you're bronze 5, you can poke AND buy a sightstone. Poof, crazy concept.

okay.. time to throw some numbers at you.. going to give you times and win or loss for your games..

6:18 ss - Loss 12:04 ss - Win 4:57 ss - Win 7:26 ss - Win 9:47 ss - Loss 7:58 ss - Loss 9:57 ss - Loss 11:54 ss - Win 6:31 ss - Loss 5:26 ss - Loss 6:26 ss - Win 5:09 ss - Loss 6:32 ss - Win

average time for SS in losses is 7:30 average time for SS in wins is 8:22

now this is based on your stats.. so tell me .. why is the purchase of a SS in your average time for a loss earlier than the average time you purchase a SS in a win?

and if you blame it on your team or the enemy being better than you.. i will give you more stats..

Environmentalist1 votes

Haha you're all horned up for this! Call it a coincidence? I buy SS first back every game, unless I die early and don't have the full 800. Maybe on wins my first back is later than on losses? Some games I don't go back until I'm level 6 or 7 with 1500+ gold.

I can guarantee that the time that SS is purchased has just about 0 effect on whether it will be a win or loss.

If you'd like to play Vel Koz support and buy SS 30 minutes into the game, be my guest, but I guarantee I'll stomp the crap out of your lane if you're ever paired against me. :)

Good luck on the rift!

Teslyn1 votes

{quoted}

Haha you're all horned up for this! Call it a coincidence? I buy SS first back every game, unless I die early and don't have the full 800. Maybe on wins my first back is later than on losses? Some games I don't go back until I'm level 6 or 7 with 1500+ gold.

I can guarantee that the time that SS is purchased has just about 0 effect on whether it will be a win or loss.

If you'd like to play Vel Koz support and buy SS 30 minutes into the game, be my guest, but I guarantee I'll stomp the crap out of your lane if you're ever paired against me. :)

Good luck on the rift!

... get on my level and lets play.. sorry .. tried to make a lower account and i it climbed to quick.. so.. you gotta get to my elo and i will teach you some math.

Environmentalist1 votes

Hahaha I'll stick with math that makes sense. I appreciate the offer though. You're putting more effort and emotion into this thread than it's worth. It's a shame just about everybody disagrees with you haha. Enjoy your spelling errors and illogical posts. I'm off to buy a sightstone AND poke at the same time. Lulu item 2049

Teslyn1 votes

{quoted}

Hahaha I'll stick with math that makes sense. I appreciate the offer though. You're putting more effort and emotion into this thread than it's worth. It's a shame just about everybody disagrees with you haha. Enjoy your spelling errors and illogical posts. I'm off to buy a sightstone AND poke at the same time. Lulu item 2049

i was hoping you would try out what i offered.. i like free stuff.. getting gold i get a free skin.. maybe you too can get something free if you give what i suggest a chance.. and i am a horrible speller.. i know.. but nothing i typed had spelling errors.. maybe some grammatical ones and miss use of some words.. but spelling .. no.

so .. i guess i cant help you.. but .. if you do decide to come up here to a higher elo.. i can teach you why a different perspective could be effective.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

{quoted}

okay.. time to throw some numbers at you.. going to give you times and win or loss for your games..

6:18 ss - Loss 12:04 ss - Win 4:57 ss - Win 7:26 ss - Win 9:47 ss - Loss 7:58 ss - Loss 9:57 ss - Loss 11:54 ss - Win 6:31 ss - Loss 5:26 ss - Loss 6:26 ss - Win 5:09 ss - Loss 6:32 ss - Win

average time for SS in losses is 7:30 average time for SS in wins is 8:22

now this is based on your stats.. so tell me .. why is the purchase of a SS in your average time for a loss earlier than the average time you purchase a SS in a win?

and if you blame it on your team or the enemy being better than you.. i will give you more stats..

this data has no meaning without a side by side from the same persons no-SS games

Teslyn1 votes

{quoted}

Surprisingly, unless you're bronze 5, you can poke AND buy a sightstone. Poof, crazy concept.

11:02 ss - win 9:16 ss - loss 6:59 ss - loss N/A ss - loss (this wasnt even a real team comp fyi) 19:16 ss - win 13:03 ss win 5:23 ss win 7:46 ss loss 7:47 ss win 9:53 ss win 12:13 ss loss 11:40 ss win 16:51 ss loss 20:53 ss win 8:30 ss win

12:33 average time SS is purchased to beat you. 11:01 average time ss is purchase to lose to you..

in conclusion.. based off your win / loss numbers.. if a enemy buys a ss after 12:33 mins they have a better chance of beating you.

bottledpoop1 votes

This is very new to me. You mean to say that there are situations in my support sona play where I should NOT by sightstone and instead save up for lich bane? It almost makes sense if the adc is not gonna do anything. Typically I purchase the sightstone over lich bane in the hopes the my adc will handle the damage department but if he or she cant I guess I need to pick up the slack. But if nobody builds sightstone then well lose more teamfights and get kited, baited and cuaght out more. I think ill stick to rushing Eye of the Watchers. But I see what your getting at.

Teslyn1 votes

{quoted}

This is very new to me. You mean to say that there are situations in my support sona play where I should NOT by sightstone and instead save up for lich bane? It almost makes sense if the adc is not gonna do anything. Typically I purchase the sightstone over lich bane in the hopes the my adc will handle the damage department but if he or she cant I guess I need to pick up the slack. But if nobody builds sightstone then well lose more teamfights and get kited, baited and cuaght out more. I think ill stick to rushing Eye of the Watchers. But I see what your getting at.

Here is the best advice i can give you if you will listen..

i believe SS is a great tool outside of laning phase.. you can get plenty of ward coverage with 2 pinks and the yellow trinket during laning phase.. if the enemy has that much control where you cant even keep a pink in the area around yuo .. you are in bigger trouble that you are aware of.. ..

later on in the game when roaming becomes a bigger thing than a SS will help make areas of safety that you can play in... vision is a macro game inside the game.

If you get your SS around 20 mins.. i believe you are doing good and you focused more on snowballing your lane than fighting for map control..

it is solo Q.. per-say.. and the LCS rules dont truely apply to this game level. believe me .. i have completely shut out a support that bought a SS with 2 pinks and some damage items..

The sooner laning phase ends than you should transition into a more traditional Support of fighting for vision.. but you are now building around objectives and trying to get picks or avoid getting caught..

you can take a advice of a person that hits plat on smurfs easily or you can take advice of lower elo people.. and stay on their level.. you can friend me and i can go into depth about this as well.. because this page wont be big enough for the explanation and words get lost when the conversation is one sided with out immediate feed back.

redfeenix1 votes

No thanks, yellow trinket is good enough for bot lane [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

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