Azir's winrate dropped by a whopping 10% after his nerfs

DEmperor95·Feb 13, 2015·3 votes·2,710 views

Azir (Emperor of the Sands) - Champions - League of Legends

Azir's winrate pre-nerf was nothing special, it was a mere 47-48%. After the nerf, it dropped to 38% (35% in diamond). This is even lower than Yasuo's lowest ever winrate after his gutting, and lower than release Azir win-rate.

The nerfs were absolutely too harsh, and I experienced them first-hand by trying him out. He just doesn't feel threatening at all, even when ahead, of course provided that he can get ahead.

I think Riot didn't test the impact of the changes properly, and now has to buff him back to viability. The range nerf hurt him the most. It was completely unnecessary, provided his Q damage, which is his main source of damage until he gets 2 or 3 full items, got gutted as well.

30 Comments

ArczerFeb 13, 20155 votes

Riot never tests their balance changes. Live server is basically the new PTR because 99.9% of the PTR is grossly unfit to test anything on there. Most of the PTR is just low elo players who want free skins/champions/etc to play on.

If you think Riot is testing ANYTHING before they release it, I think that's a very delusional viewpoint.

KilaneFeb 13, 20152 votes

I've been suspecting the same thing for awhile and this is most likely the case.

Even more obvious is that, they don't play the nerfed heroes with the risk of getting their ELO decrease. Because if they do, they'd never say this is balanced.

ArczerFeb 13, 20151 votes

It is indeed the case, a few of my friends told me that Riot was recruiting high Diamond/Master players to help balance their game (like, put them on a payroll and have them play PTR), and I assume it's because PTR is a joke and no one good plays on it. I considered applying, but as I was looking at the application for it, you had to be an american resident and legally be able to work in the United States (I'm canadian), so I couldn't apply.

KilaneFeb 13, 20151 votes

They could have easily makes his AP ratio on W scales like

+0.4/0.45/0.5/0.55/0.6 as you level W up instead of a freaking range, since they claims "the damage spikes happen too early". The champ's soldier is clunky and buggy as it is, they nerf it.

I swear to god, it's always been low ELO who just hates and I mean "HATES" high skill cap high reward champs/player in PBE and forum that just love to keep gutting the champs they play against. They just simply can't admit that they are not up to par in terms of skill and mechanic.

And this is especially true when this champ has ZERO click to win. Its range is nowhere near the highest either.

Left Hook LarryFeb 13, 20152 votes

Zed is currently 46% win rate, yet I'm sure you and many others would agree that he's extremely strong currently.

Win rate means very little. Not every champ needs to be a 50%+

DEmperor95Feb 13, 20151 votes

Win rates don't mean much unless they are an obvious outlier like this. Ahri siting at 58% last patch, Warwick sitting at 60% in patch 4.20, and now Azir at 38%, are all outliers that require attention.

killd0zerFeb 13, 20151 votes

It's also right after the nerfs. Most champions WR dip pretty harsh after nerfs, then rise a bit.

KilaneFeb 13, 20151 votes

He can be counter with items for many AP champs and for some have the certain CC that can stop him from assasinating you. His shadow is easy to predict where he's going. The wave clear and pushing ability maybe too overboard due to adc items chance

BUT....

would you low elo pls stop over exagerating the power of the certain champs that isn't even that successful in any ELO to begin with?

TapdatgoatFeb 13, 20152 votes

Yeah the range nerf was obvious that it would shit all over him in my eyes. I also find it pretty weird how they claim it's 400 or now 325 range, since they calculated them per the diameter as most normal abilities. When it's actually like a champions attack range, which is calculated from the radius. So in reality the soldiers have 162.5 range, which is shorter than some melee champion's auto attacks. In other words you could literally stand in a soldier and some melee's will still outrange it.

JustMyBassCannonFeb 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So in reality the soldiers have 162.5 range, which is shorter than some melee champion's auto attacks. In other words you could literally stand in a soldier and some melee's will still outrange it.

...I understand and sympathize with most of the issues players have with Azir's nerfs, but complaining about one in ten melee champions having 12.5 longer attack range than Azir's soldiers--which can't be targeted, attacked or damaged anyway--is like complaining that the duration of Skarner's suppress (1.75) is shorter than Warwick's (1.8).

TapdatgoatFeb 13, 20152 votes

You're missing the point. It's that it's ridiculously short on a spell which is largely created to work as a zoning tool. It has gone from being a limited but viable spell on its own to being completely reliant on Q. In 5.2 you could actually hit people with two soldiers late game, now there's a miniscule area where this is still possible (unless you walk up to them and put them down but that's not exactly a smart thing to do and all anybody has to do is walk away while you're waiting on the CD's).

Basically, they nerfed Q, late game in particular, because it was too strong early game. Following this, they also nerfed W, which renders you more reliant on Q.

JustMyBassCannonFeb 13, 20151 votes

What, you're saying that a zoning champion losing area of control was a bad idea? Yeah, it was. Again, I thought the Azir nerfs were a bad idea on an already questionably balanced champ.

I'm saying that the specific comment I was pointing out is a moot point. That comparison holds absolutely no value, compared to the bare fact that his soldiers lost range, which actually affects Azir pretty significantly (and negatively).

TapdatgoatFeb 13, 20151 votes

While admittedly it isn't particularly elaborated, largely due to me writing the post inbetween CS:GO rounds, there's nothing wrong with the comparisson.

It highlights how short the range actually is and how reliant it is on Q now. If it is of a shorter range than a melee champion it's not going to be able to do shit on lane, e.g. trade when the enemy tries to CS, and people will move out of its range straight away in TF's.

JustMyBassCannonFeb 14, 20151 votes

There's nothing necessarily wrong with the comparison, but (a) it's inaccurate, as the range difference between edge vs. center of hitbox is ~100, and (b) it's distracting from the focus of the actual point. You're not upset that you thought there was a 12-point range difference between Azir's soldiers and specific melee champions; you're upset that Azir's soldiers lost 75 range, which is an actually calculable difference.

DEmperor95Feb 13, 20151 votes

Actually Azir's soldiers range is a radius, not a diameter. So the radius got reduced from 400 to 325. This is how range is calculated on anything in the game.

TapdatgoatFeb 14, 20151 votes

The range in which you can position the soldier's is calculated from a radius, the range the Soldier themselves have is the diameter of the circle shown as their range, just like with AoE abilities.

This is the only logical possibility unless they have different measurements of range between AA and abilities. Because if the radius range of the soldiers is 325, then the diameter of the circle would be 650, the same range as Caitlynn's AA range, which it obviously is not.

DEmperor95Feb 14, 20151 votes

Well from your above calculations, you claim his soldiers's range is 162.5, while Yasuo who is a melee champion, has an AA range of 175.

The diameter of Azir's soldiers is equal to Caitlyn's range, although it looks quite deceptive. Range on AAing something is basically the distance between the attacker, and the target, which is the radius of the soldiers, not the diameter.

TapdatgoatFeb 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well from your above calculations, you claim his soldiers's range is 162.5, while Yasuo who is a melee champion, has an AA range of 175.

The diameter of Azir's soldiers is equal to Caitlyn's range, although it looks quite deceptive. Range on AAing something is basically the distance between the attacker, and the target, which is the radius of the soldiers, not the diameter.

If the diameter of one of Azir's soldiers was equal to Caitlynn's range, you wouldn't be able to AA from one side of the soldier over to a minion which is just outside of the Soldier's range as Azir. Because Caitlynn outranges him and thus so would the soldier's range. The only thing that is deceptive about it is why they're using diameter when the only logical way to present it is radius, because the ability can only ever do damage in one half of the circle.

There are even AoE abilities who has their range specified as per radius, as in they literally say it's the radius and not the diameter, and these do damage in the entire circle. One example would be Anivia Q which has a 75 range radius, which is strinkingly similar in size to Azir's W.

killd0zerFeb 13, 20151 votes

Prob a little too harsh, but the fact he was pulling 48% **while ** being so incredibly hard to play shows how ridiculously strong he was. He's far more difficult than Zed or Lee, but was still effective.

DEmperor95Feb 13, 20151 votes

This is true to an extent, but also note that his pick rate was just 5%, so only those who can play him properly would play him in ranked most of the time.

I agree he was too strong though, but that's not the point. The point is that he's so weak now, and the nerfs were overdone.

TapdatgoatFeb 13, 20151 votes

Yep, when he spiked to 20-25% pick ratio one day, his winratio dropped down to 40%. Most of the people who played him did so regularly as you say.

GigahappytownFeb 13, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Prob a little too harsh, but the fact he was pulling 48% **while ** being so incredibly hard to play shows how ridiculously strong he was. He's far more difficult than Zed or Lee, but was still effective.

wtf this sentence contradicts itself If hes hard to play but gets a good winrate because people are skilled at him then thats balanced so appernerlty being difficult to play and having a high winrate is a big nono? Only ez mode champions can have high winrates?

killd0zerFeb 14, 20151 votes

If hes hard to play but gets a good winrate because people are skilled at him

48% is being played by the shitty players. A lot of his strength was in teamplay, which the average player didn't get to take advantage of. He had crazy amount of power that most people weren't using, yet was still doing alright (+ or - 2% is within balanced usually)

DEmperor95Feb 14, 20151 votes

He's not being played by shitty players, because his pick rate was just 5%. Lee Sin on the other hand, is so popular (25% pick rate) and has a 46% win rate. Shitty players who play a champ can ruin the champ's win rate, but only when the champ is popular, like in Lee Sin's case.

Vicarious117Feb 13, 20151 votes

I can understand the Q nerfs, his lane bullying potential was too high considering how amazing he is late game so lowering the Q damage makes sense.

But that soldier range nerf, wtf is that!? You have to walk right up into ANY mid laners range just to drop a single soldier close enough to get maybe one attack off and it's such a short range that you cannot even hit caster minions with a soldier standing in the melee minions, it's ridiculous!

Not too mention now in late game you have to walk right into the middle of a teamfight basically to drop soldiers close enough to hit people, or you have to drop them by you and throw them in with Q, but then you're unable to move them around as your opponents will no doubt move away from your only damage source.

Riot waaaaaaay over did the nerfs this time, hands down.

DEmperor95Feb 14, 20151 votes

Yep, the range nerf destroyed his teamfight potential.

Maximum MordeFeb 13, 20151 votes

Good.

AaravosFeb 13, 20151 votes

It is very rare when the fantastic balance team rebuff a champ after they overnerfed it. But you can hope.

Ulquiorra995Feb 14, 20151 votes

I keep wondering how people at Riot's balance team still have their jobs. Because they obviously don't have a clue about what they are doing.

They wanted to cut on his lane power while keeping his great late game... But they actually destroyed his late game by lowering soldier's AA range so that when you Q to reposition your soldiers you can't hit an enemy with more than one soldier after they spread out.