Very simple change to give Annie "Windows of Power" which goes with Riot's recent design philosophy

DEmperor95·7/16/2015, 7:44:18 AM·49 votes·2,788 views

In almost all of their new designs, Riot has been emphasizing "windows of power" to allow for counterplay. The two biggest examples are the Ashe and Ryze reworks, which use a stacking system to build up stacks, then react quickly to achieve a window of power or risk losing the stacks. We could do the same with Annie with one simple change: make her stun charges fall after some time of not casting a damaging ability.

Currently, Annie can charge her stun and zone you kinda "forever"; or as much as she wants to. This applies to both mid lane and bottom lane Annie. If, however, her stacks would drop off if not used, she could only zone you for only as long as her passive charges remain. And when they fall off, it gives you a window of opportunity to play more aggressive against her without risking being instagibed.

70 Comments

Critmaster Garen7/16/2015, 10:35:18 AM17 votes

yes, and no.

in principle this wouldnt be such a bad idea. but annies cooldowns are far too long to allow for such a mechanic. it works with ryze, because he can basically spam his abilities.

technically annie already has these windows of power, if you keep an eye on her stacks. she can charge up enough stacks to get in range for a stun within 1 rotation and then her threat drastically drops off as her spells are on cooldown.

you would have to make the duration until the buff starts to drop of significantly longer than her q cooldown.

ChaoticPinecone7/16/2015, 11:30:22 PM6 votes

The problem with 'windows of power' is that to create the window, you need to compensate by increasing the strength during the window. Do you really want a burst mage like Annie to have a 'window of power' like Ryze and Ashe? Yes, they made them slightly harder to play but increased their damage tremendously.

Ryze went from 'weak early, strong late' to 'strong when passive is up, weak when down'. We all saw the permasnare at level 9 in patch 5.11. Now its not as bad, but without flash you arent running away.

Ashe went from 'utility ADC' to 'utility adc with hypercarry damage'. Before, if you say that she had 55/100 attacks crit with an IE and PD, she would statistically do 182.5% damage over 100 attacks. Now its 192.5% damage with the same items, not including her Q which does a bonus 135% AD damage per auto during her 'window of power'.

Imagine a similar buff to Annie. You might not be able to hold the stun, but when its up she bursts you 100-0 without tibbers. Is that something you want?

Silents4297/16/2015, 6:28:20 PM5 votes

In almost all of their new designs, Riot has been emphasizing "windows of power" to allow for counterplay. The two biggest examples are the Ashe and Ryze reworks, which use a stacking system to build up stacks, then react quickly to achieve a window of power or risk losing the stacks. We could do the same with Annie with one simple change: make her stun charges fall after some time of not casting a damaging ability.

This works on Ashe because it's her auto attacks and abilities, this Works on Ryze because he has short cooldowns and is meant to be spam happy.

This does not work on short ranged, long cooldown Annie.

Currently, Annie can charge her stun and zone you kinda "forever"; or as much as she wants to. This applies to both mid lane and bottom lane Annie. If, however, her stacks would drop off if not used, she could only zone you for only as long as her passive charges remain. And when they fall off, it gives you a window of opportunity to play more aggressive against her without risking being instagibed.

Why does she have to constantly use mana up to maintain a stack?

Why do you think she can zone forever when she can't? Mid Annie loses farm if she refuses to use abilities, Support Annie is no worse with her stun then most supports with hard CC.

I admire people actually trying to balance Annie, but they are all centered around her stun which is odd considering It isn't even why she is problematic for some. I mean the only way for her to start fights is to burn flash to do it, and if we nerf this aspect of her, she loses her identity and becomes useless. With or without a decaying stack system.

If she were to get fixed, she would need to be given range on her abilities first because she needs more ways to balance her. These suggestions only seem to butcher aspects of her.

Erockandroll7/16/2015, 10:24:17 PM5 votes

Big problem with her Identity. Her engage with Flash Tibbers is all she's used for. You can't really nerf that without completely gutting her Identity. (of coarse it's her identity that everyone hates.) Also the Stun on her passive is her only CC in her entire kit. Nerfing that would be as problematic for a mage's kit. If this wasn't the case, Veigar would not be in as a terrible position as he is now. Yet in Annie's case, it's more balanceable cause it's her ultimate ability.

In all honesty, I don't actually think her Flash engage is that big of a problem. Cause if it was, We would have just as much problem with Sona Flash Crescendo, Amumu Flash Curse of the sad mummy, Galio flash Idol of Duran, or any number of champs that have High, lock down ultimates. Yet we only attack annie, and not just anyone with high lock down, so lock down isn't the defining metric. So how does Annie differ? Gallio and Amumu, arguably have a harder time cause theirs are more close burst and their melee, But the fact that they usually build tanky makes this some what moot. And the different between Annie and Sona is that Sona is basically confined to the support role.

So I would deduced that the only reason why her Stun is problematic is that it's paired with high Damage and High scaling. Is that really a good reason to butcher the only thing going for her in her kit. I'd think it would be more appropriate to just nerf the damage of the ultimate, if the ultimate is too powerful by itself. (well, itself + the stun)

And really? is her Stun problematic anywhere except her ult? Probably not, so it would not really be appropriate to nerf her stun stacking. also Considering the fact that once you have stacked your stun, you are pacified until your ready to cast your ult. Cause if you have to cast your Q or W in defense. You lose it, and would have to stack it up again.

Lastly, Annie is still a staple pick in the LCS as a support. They seem to think that it's actually balanced and won't nerf that. The only way to nerf Annie without nerfing her Support abilities is to attack her AP ratios.

ShuffledPancake7/16/2015, 7:52:03 AM4 votes

Ah yes i was thinking this while i read the title +1

Sammystorm7/16/2015, 2:37:20 PM3 votes

Annie already has windows of power. If she has a stun she can't wave clear which make her more susceptible to pushing As other people have mentioned her cool downs are quite a bit longer making it so she couldn't really effectively keep stats.

I am curious why do you think Annie is a problem and needs to be changed?

Namamall7/17/2015, 5:06:14 AM2 votes

But that creates an extremely important issue.

Annie would not be able to initiate fights.

Unless of course, the fights were very close to lane, and she had enough time to know not to stack too quickly. Which would mean might not be able to clear the wave because it would blow her passive.

The issue with Annie, is that all she has is her stun bust initiation. Without that, she's nothing.

It wouldn't work without changes to Annie. It works with Ryze because he doesn't have to be ramped up before the fight starts. It works with Gnar because his rage is a resource, and can be controlled more precisely than Annie would have.

Llanite7/16/2015, 5:05:16 PM1 votes

With stun or not, once she's ahead, she'll start zoning you, that is true for every point and click champ, be it fizz, ryze, talon or teemo.

And what exactly wrong with holding cc indefinitely? Lulu does it, taric does it, ali does it, fidd does it. Why is only Annie an issue?