@Riot , instead of reworking a class in the future, can you rework a group of problematic champions?

L0ve Is Blue·May 8, 2016·32 votes·1,666 views

Personnaly i would appreciate having an update for a group of problematic champions WAY MORE than a class update.

Why not the ''overmobile champions'' update

Or the ''We got gutted because of an item and then the item got gutted and now we are useless'' update?

Maybe the ''we can't do anything unless we snowball, but if we snowball we will destroy your entire team'' update

Or the '' All our reworks failed'' update

Even the ''hit one skill than you can do anything you want to the enemy you hit'' champion update

Just some propositions like this, might be biased, but still I would love to see updates for a group of problematic champions instead of a class.

34 Comments

Malicious MetalMay 8, 201611 votes

OR... We stop reworking entire rosters and give some VGU's to champs who desperately need a full team and all the resources they can get.

L0ve Is BlueMay 9, 20161 votes

That would be amazing too

Teridax68May 9, 20161 votes

I think roster updates are good when they get to comprehensively address at least some of the issues of a class (i.e. marksmen and build diversity in the preseason update), especially since they get to key that class's champions around new or modified items. The VGUs are also led by separate teams, who have pumped them out far better and quicker than ever before.

So far, the main problem with each roster update so far is when a champion rework clearly needs more time and/or resources, or a total rethink, but gets pushed out anyway just because it has to be released on a schedule. Mordekaiser is obviously the prime example of this, and I feel some of the reworks in the mage roster, namely Viktor and Syndra, could've used more thought. Farther down the line, the Rioters working on future roster updates need to be able to drop specific champions out of schedule when they need more work, and communicate when they're having trouble on a particular particular champion, which would hopefully increase the success rate of their rework projects.

Mecha MaIphiteMay 8, 201610 votes

Sion isn't weak

RalanrMay 8, 20162 votes

People just don't understand that Sion is good with those who take the time to learn him.

IgotlazyMay 8, 20162 votes

True but prior to Season 6 (and the beauty that is Strength of Ages/Grasp of the Undying) the nerf to Cinderhulk as well as his E and W nerf put him in a bad spot.

AbyssphereMay 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

True but prior to Season 6 (and the beauty that is Strength of Ages/Grasp of the Undying) the nerf to Cinderhulk as well as his E and W nerf put him in a bad spot.

So what you're saying is that people are complaining in May 2016 about a champion having been weak for a while the previous year? And this complaining is seen as worthwhile?

IgotlazyMay 9, 20161 votes

It's less that and more about how Riot has a tendency to do the "Sejuani" style of nerfing, where they introduce a new item/mastery/whatever into the game which puts a couple of champions over the edge. They then nerf the champion that abuses the change instead of tweaking the change itself. They THEN tweak the change, effectively nerfing that Champion twice. It tends to leave whatever champions affected in sorry states.

The Bíg TicketMay 8, 20165 votes

How can you people seriously entertain the idea of Sejuani being useless? She is perfectly fine.

L0ve Is BlueMay 8, 20163 votes

She can still do things, but why take sejuani if you want an engage tank when you can just take Malphite Nautilus who both have better built in tankiness and longer stuns on their easier to land ults?

She is not bad, but there is just better options than her for doing her job.

BeldairMay 8, 20161 votes

She has a gap closer along with a slow and stun. With her gap closer being a fairly decent escape

Naut has a shield, skill shot engage, and knockup (plus passive stun) but not slow

L0ve Is BlueMay 8, 20161 votes

What is Nautilus's E

Also Nautilus does have an escape too with his Q.

BeldairMay 8, 20161 votes

Sej still has a more reliable gap closer and escape.

L0ve Is BlueMay 8, 20161 votes

Sejuani's escape/gap close: 650 units traveled

Nautilus gap close: 550 units BUT also moves his target 550 units escape: 1100 units. So they are pretty much equivalent.

Mecha MaIphiteMay 8, 20162 votes

Nautilus really isn't the same type of engage as Malph or Sej. Those two are for locking down the entire team, whereas Naut is better at single-target lockdown. Theoretically, he can knock up the entire team with his ult, but only if they line themselves up for whatever reason.

AbyssphereMay 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XVrLkBk6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-08T13:17:23.266+0000)

She can still do things, but why take sejuani if you want an engage tank when you can just take who both have better built in tankiness and longer stuns on their easier to land ults?

She is not bad, but there is just better options than her for doing her job.

This has nothing to do with her being weak and a lot to do with tanks being very difficult to differentiate between each other. That's why Riot is considering doing an update to tanks as a whole.

BIH DiamondMay 8, 20163 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/96e860f0e42179b52dd5c94ee8eecbc7.png

That explains everything

runedaraMay 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bíg Ticket,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XVrLkBk6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-08T13:13:33.813+0000)

How can you people seriously entertain the idea of Sejuani being useless? She is perfectly fine.

The problem was they nerfed her hard and only started to improve after the meta changed. They ignored her for almost a year.

ZorasamaMay 8, 20164 votes

I prefer "overloaded kit champs" update, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them is problematic.

L0ve Is BlueMay 8, 20161 votes

That would be a nice idea too![slayer-jinx-wink]

RoodToobMay 8, 20162 votes

Okay, but problematic champions require a bigger rework, solo work typically. If they fit them in an entire group update odds are they will get more wrong than they have before trying to fix them.

Also, it feels like your just complaining about champions you don't like, thats totally fine, but it helps a lot more when suggestions for improvement are given. Riot hasn't always thought of what we have

Nameless VoiceMay 8, 20162 votes

Forget about groups. They should just focus on reworking the champions that ruin every game they're in due to their awful design, rather than the ones that are hardly played because.

Fixing up a champion because they aren't played much and need more of a distinct role and reason to be picked is a nice idea, but nowhere near as important as fixing up a champion that almost everyone hates playing against and which sucks the fun out of any game they are in.

PenguinOverlord8May 9, 20161 votes

True but some of these champs have just been left to rot for a while and really need some love and attention. I understand what you are saying, maybe a nice balance would be nice. Honestly every champion can be played and have fun and a nice impact with very few exceptions but still they need some attention. Especially when their fan base and other players have been demanding changes for a while now.

Teridax68May 9, 20162 votes

I think this raises the question of why you'd want to address these champions all at once in the first place. Roster updates are done because tackling lots of champions in a specific class at once means Riot can design them around the same pool of items, as well as better determine what they want that class to do (most of the time). By contrast, there's nothing really connecting, say, Akali, LeBlanc and Riven beyond high snowballiness, so you might as well rework those champions on different schedules.

L0ve Is BlueMay 9, 20161 votes

Just freeing up ressources to rework problematic champions instead of roster update would be nice. Instead of investing ressources in champions that are totally fine like Vel'koz and such I would rather see problematic champions be reworked, even if it's one by one.

EvenstarMay 9, 20161 votes

Items are fine as they are. Sometimes, killing two birds with a stone is not necessarily the best thing to do.

GulmaMay 8, 20161 votes

Akali? Akali is great if you build tanky ad items. Enemy can't kill you and you can kill everyone. Where's Ekko for mobile champions? Sion has his uses.

L0ve Is BlueMay 8, 20161 votes

Enemy can't kill you and you can kill everyone.

Wow! Such healthy gameplay!

And I didn't list every champions for every suggested update, the thread is more about reworking problematic champions instead of classes.

GulmaMay 9, 20161 votes

no doubt i agree there are plenty of broken champions. I think if riot tried changing the meta we could see some more diversity.

TheSlogsMay 8, 20161 votes

The problem is that a lot of the "problem" champions are ones that need full scale reworks to fix, which is a thing the can only do one of at a time.

L0ve Is BlueMay 9, 20161 votes

And that they could do faster if they freed ressources

the Anarchit3chtMay 8, 20161 votes

I think the main reason the focus on Class updates is because they alter items for that class as well.

QuephaMay 9, 20161 votes

You're missing the point of a class update. When Riot works hard looking at one class they get a better understanding of that class and what makes each champion within that class unique, overpowered, weak, or unhealthy.

ZaTimeMay 9, 20161 votes

Disagree. Meta shifts require these types of changes. Changing problematic champions can just aggravate that problem. And anyways, it's not actually possible to create a free-from-problems-champion pool given the large number of them and how diverse they all are (generally speaking). Fix some of them, and the ones who were perviously 'normal' now turn into "problematic". By fixing entire roles they can shit the meta in healthy and controlled ways. Ie junglers more useful now, ADC have more counter play, tanks are not as hard to kill as previously (Guinsoo/Bloodrazor/%hp dmg from ap's), assassins are actually viable in killing a squishy and escaping (Zed for example). The mid-season changes made all roles healthier in many ways. Fixing only the problematic champions would be inefficient and counter-intuitive.