The Problem Isn't a Lack of Communication. It's that Support is Genuinely Unfun to Play Right Now

The Yetii Rider··6 votes·1,048 views

Support experience has been at an all time low since the change to experience masteries back in season 5. Riot keeps introducing ways to help supports catch up, but these are usually based on kill experience. The ward XP change was...okay, I guess? Kill experience, on the other hand, is completely useless for the support who is behind. Your team is not getting kills and you are not getting assists when your lane is behind. Like the change that "if you don't get an assist, you can still get XP for a kill if your body is in range for 10 seconds after your death." Whoo, boy. That's what I want to hear. If I get murdered, at least my team getting a kill without me helping in any way will keep me from falling too far behind. Right, that's going to happen.

So it's no surprise that people are just leaving bot lane to try and get XP in the enemy jungle. I did it back in the preaseason. It's just honestly better for all five members of the team to have reasonable experience than it is for the ADC to have more gold. Particularly in the mid game, where most games are decided. Don't believe me? That's how this guy with the Nunu Master counterjungling support strat has a 53% win rate. He sets the enemy jungler behind, and himself ahead. And when team fights start, a tank with experience and a bit of gold is more useful than an ADC with one lethality or crit item.

This isn't support players breaking the meta. This is support players adapting to the meta. ADCs have been feeling weaker, games are decided earlier where ADCs are less relevant (ignoring the recent rise of lethality because that was Riot's response to try and fix this problem), and supports have less XP. Combine that with the fact that many traditional supports have terribly low base stats already, and being down three levels can put you as much as 200 or 300 health and 20 armor below the rest of the team. Experience is wildly important!

Riot, just stop trying to conserve this meta. It's not going to work. Revert lethality, and let ADCs just die off as a class. Then we can have a jungler and a counterjungler, and three solo lanes. That will actually make jungling less PVE! It breeds, wait for it, MORE PLAYER INTERACTION! Just like you keep claiming to want!

13 Comments

Krigjer4 votes

This is support players adapting to the meta.

What 'support' players? Actual support players want to help their team- not be pushed off to jungle to farm creeps. If I wanted that, I'd queue jungle.

What you see, for the most part, are people that main other roles (mid introduced things like Malz support) wanting faster queues, so they select support but don't actually support.

xAGirlHasNoNamex1 votes

What 'support' players? Actual support players want to help their team- not be pushed off to jungle to farm creeps. If I wanted that, I'd queue jungle.

Exactly.

xAGirlHasNoNamex3 votes

Hell no! I am a main support and though I agree with you that supports don't get enough attention from Riot, I think the role should be kept. Not to mention that there are champs that would be deleted or just be useless because they wouldnt fit the meta like Raka,Janna, Taric Blitz, Tresh, Leo, Tahm etc. Besides if there are 4 junglers on a map, they all will just suffer. I mean How many camps are there? 6 for every side + 2 scuttles + drake and herald/baron. How shall this work when it comes to Gold and experience for them? I think there would constantly be fights in jungle between counterjunglers and jungler which will just make jungler for the lanes more irrelevant since less ganks.

I just think this would be a really bad idea.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

The alternative is that we continue having level 9 characters in a game where everyone else is level 11. And then the ADCs continue to die because the supports are too underleveled to safely protect them.

In the upcoming midseason update Riot is planning to lower the defenses granted by items and compensate tanks with base stats per level. Which is going to make tank supports squishier because their items are weaker and they are behind in levels.

Support as a role does not function without some form of mastery that grants bonus XP. This is because the shared XP system itself is flawed. The support role was at its height of playability while there were masteries that granted bonus XP. It has deteriorated to a shell of its former self without it.

xAGirlHasNoNamex2 votes

Then maybe it would be just needed to adjust the experience problem instead of deleting the role in general. And tbh I dont think the adc has to die because the support is underleveled in every case. At least even when I am underleveled I can protect the Adc in most cases. It all depends on him too ofc with positioning and communication but still. I dont think its reason enough to delete the role. I just think there have to be adjustments and maybe more attention to the role by Riot, esp. since they encourage people to play support.

TTK Dreadnought2 votes

Riot, just stop trying to conserve this meta. It's not going to work. Revert lethality, and let ADCs just die off as a class. Then we can have a jungler and a counterjungler, and three solo lanes. That will actually make jungling less PVE! It breeds, wait for it, MORE PLAYER INTERACTION! Just like you keep claiming to want

I would be interested in seeing this

MysterQ2 votes

1-2--1-1 sounds like a very crazy thing if it became meta. Junglers would be starved. And lanes might want to push in to collapse any counter jungler.

But if it happens even for awhile, I would be fine with it. Keeping things static isn't always the best solution.

Ralanr2 votes

{quoted}

1-2--1-1 sounds like a very crazy thing if it became meta. Junglers would be starved. And lanes might want to push in to collapse any counter jungler.

But if it happens even for awhile, I would be fine with it. Keeping things static isn't always the best solution.

So it would cut down on early power/carry junglers and empower utility/"support" junglers?

Downside is that Ivern stays on top. Upside is that Lee, Vi, and Hecarim could see less play.

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

I did this once in a premade. I was illaoi in a 2v1 bot lane and we had an amumu jg with a kindred counter jungler.

We won quite significantly.

I believe it can work as a meta

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Yeah, which would make for crazy escapes by the counterjungler. You would want to play someone who can gtfo even if you get collapsed on, like Fizz or Elise or Shen.

Aptest1 votes

{quoted}

1-2--1-1 sounds like a very crazy thing if it became meta. Junglers would be starved. And lanes might want to push in to collapse any counter jungler.

But if it happens even for awhile, I would be fine with it. Keeping things static isn't always the best solution.

translation:

less "im the jungler i have more levels and gold and buy times than the lanes so i can just fuck them up", and more going to fight the other guy in the jungle for everyone.

I see this as a win - win.

Your third mom1 votes

well if supports could so something about someone like thisGaren comming in for their squishy then they'd be worth to play but now?? eather tank supp or malza supp to counter those Trains.

Krigjer1 votes

The alternative is that we continue having level 9 characters in a game where everyone else is level 11.

.

Then maybe it would be just needed to adjust the experience problem instead of deleting the role in general.

I have to say that being underleveled is only a mild annoyance. Fixing the experience gap, imo, wouldn't solve why some people dislike the role.

Support isn't about getting kills, and for most people, it's the thrill of a killing spree that makes the game fun for them. It's why you see things like Malz and Annie support- and also why most adcs hate when mages or any sort of kill lane is forced upon them.

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