Champions that are useless when you can't play them right, but amazing when you do play them right. Champions like Riven, Lee Sin, Vayne and Azir. If people can play them right, it's really hard to stop them. Now this wouldn't be a problem, but most of the time you see these guys, they've practiced a bunch and are super good at their champion.
Reformed Dunni4 votesSo how exactly is that a problem? if you've consistently practice with a champion I won't be suprised if you're a monster at them
Dreadlocks1 votes"high skill cap champions" have more room for out play. Meaning mechanics play a bigger role.
Niyumi1 votesUm, hm. "High skill cap" would imply that the champion is hard to play well, and not just anyone can pick them up and annihilate. Lee, Riven and Vayne are not high skill cap at all. In fact, they're the opposite. Vayne is 95% auto attacks, Lee is just mashing Q and R (all you need to know for him is general gameplay) and Riven is just facerolling on her keyboard while spamming emotes between Qs. None are really all that hard.
Azir, however, takes a little bit of skill, because you have to manage up to 4 things on the field at once. But after a few games, you get the hang of it.
The real problem with Vayne and Riven is that they have way, way too much damage for how simplistic/defensive their kit is. If they want to have all that mobility and CC, then they need to pay for it -- which neither do. Lee isn't really that bad, his R is just kind of silly now. Azir has been nerfed so many times that I rarely even see him anymore.
Prospector Pete2 votesI agree with Vayne and Riven, although they do have a bunch of mechanics involved. They're too safe and have too much damage.
NemeBro1 votesUm, hm. "High skill cap" would imply that the champion is hard to play well, and not just anyone can pick them up and annihilate. Lee, Riven and Vayne are not high skill cap at all. In fact, they're the opposite. Vayne is 95% auto attacks, Lee is just mashing Q and R (all you need to know for him is general gameplay) and Riven is just facerolling on her keyboard while spamming emotes between Qs. None are really all that hard.
Azir, however, takes a little bit of skill, because you have to manage up to 4 things on the field at once. But after a few games, you get the hang of it.
The real problem with Vayne and Riven is that they have way, way too much damage for how simplistic/defensive their kit is. If they want to have all that mobility and CC, then they need to pay for it -- which neither do. Lee isn't really that bad, his R is just kind of silly now. Azir has been nerfed so many times that I rarely even see him anymore.
No, "high skill cap" implies that the champion is hard to play to its full effect. The phase you're thinking of is "high skill floor".
Niyumi1 votesNo no, I mean skill cap. Both the floor and cap for those three are very low. The only thing that makes Riven even remotely challenging is exploiting the cancel bug. Outside of that? Nothing.
NemeBro3 votesNo no, I mean skill cap. Both the floor and cap for those three are very low. The only thing that makes Riven even remotely challenging is exploiting the cancel bug. Outside of that? Nothing.
Ah, I see. You're just wrong then, particularly in the case of Riven and maybe Lee Sin.
Niyumi1 votesSubjectivity is fun. ^^ What you call hard, I call braindead. Just because mashing Q and facerolling the other buttons is hard for you doesn't mean it's hard for me -- and that "difficulty" Riven has is by no means an excuse for her to exist in the state she does.
A good portion of the champ roster needs some retuning, or they need to be forced to be more mechanically challenging (targeted abilities become skillshots, autos become less than 95% of your damage, etc.), to do the damage they do. Least effort/skill required should never give the greatest reward. :3
NemeBro2 votesSubjectivity is fun. ^^ What you call hard, I call braindead. Just because mashing Q and facerolling the other buttons is hard for you doesn't mean it's hard for me -- and that "difficulty" Riven has is by no means an excuse for her to exist in the state she does.
A good portion of the champ roster needs some retuning, or they need to be forced to be more mechanically challenging (targeted abilities become skillshots, autos become less than 95% of your damage, etc.), to do the damage they do. Least effort/skill required should never give the greatest reward. :3
But if you play Riven like that you're a bad Riven player. Anyone can pubstomp some normals or low elo games with Riven by facerolling.
Did you know that players in plat and up who just try out Riven in ranked have a 45% win rate? Did you know that it takes 50+ games to actually achieve a 51% win rate with her, and that literally over a third of her players have played her in over 125 games?
Why is someone in Silver 3 trying to act like they actually know how to play Riven to her highest level? =\
Or any champion for that matter.
Niyumi1 votesWhy do you have to be diamond to know how to play a champion? Question for you right there. ^^
That's how Riven was intended to be played. She's "like a fighting game" in that you rapidly push a lot of buttons and use animation cancelling (a bug, you know) to maximize her DPS. So, by definition, she facerolls to win. The reason Riven has poor statistics is because a lot of people either don't know about animation cancelling, or just don't bother since she's already so strong without them -- and Riot has admitted to balancing her around the animation cancel bug.
And hey, why is someone in S5 trying to pretend they're a high ELO? :P
NemeBro1 votesWhy do you have to be diamond to know how to play a champion? Question for you right there. ^^
Because if you mastered a champion to its highest level, you'd be able to play them at the highest level.
Do you think some random bronze to gold Rumble player can play him as well as Dyrus?
That's how Riven was intended to be played. She's "like a fighting game" in that you rapidly push a lot of buttons and use animation cancelling (a bug, you know) to maximize her DPS. So, by definition, she facerolls to win. The reason Riven has poor statistics is because a lot of people either don't know about animation cancelling, or just don't bother since she's already so strong without them -- and Riot has admitted to balancing her around the animation cancel bug.
Riven is so strong without them that she has poor statistics, per your own words. You didn't exactly think that statement through, did you?
Animation canceling requires more skill than mashing the buttons. If you actually played fighting games you might know that. Are you confused over the definition of faceroll?
Oh and by the way, I never really covered this: Riven in her current state isn't overpowered. She has a pretty good win rate which is inflated by the relatively high experience of her playerbase (an average of nearly 150 games played with her)
And hey, why is someone in S5 trying to pretend they're a high ELO? :P
I never brought up my own skill or lack thereof at the game, you on the other hand thought it necessary to flaunt your own stupidity by trying to condescend to me ("Just because mashing Q and facerolling the other buttons is hard for you doesn't mean it's hard for me").
Niyumi1 votesBecause if you mastered a champion to its highest level, you'd be able to play them at the highest level.
Do you think some random bronze to gold Rumble player can play him as well as Dyrus?
Actually, your ranking does nothing but show your luck in matchmaking. Even smurfs can absolutely crash and burn if they have a team that lacks any kind of brain. Sure, there are exceptions, but generally your rank is dependent on your team's performance, not just your own. Even if you're a god at Rumble, for example, that doesn't mean you'll be able to 5v1 the entire enemy team and win the game on your own -- especially if your team is feeding.
Riven is so strong without them that she has poor statistics, per your own words. You didn't exactly think that statement through, did you?
Animation canceling requires more skill than mashing the buttons. If you actually played fighting games you might know that. Are you confused over the definition of faceroll?
Mm, not really. You just bind your emote to a key on your mouse, spam it after every Q, and laugh as you near-instantly do your whole combo. That takes skill, right?
And, the animation cancelling thing only really applies at really high ELOs. In silver, most Rivens don't even know about animation cancelling, but the champ itself is still broken as hell. In a high ELO, however, your team is there to help you, unlike in silver or bronze. Her only weakness (as with every champion who apparently has "counterplay") is to CC lock her until she's dead. In silver, don't expect that. In a high ELO, yeah, it'll happen. Her mobility has a CD, so once she blows it, a smart team can kill her.
Oh and by the way, I never really covered this: Riven in her current state isn't overpowered. She has a pretty good win rate which is inflated by the relatively high experience of her playerbase (an average of nearly 150 games played with her)
Not broken, okay. The ability to rush someone at level 2 and kill them if they have no movement, and level 3 if they do have movement. That's not overpowered? And let's not forget that she can tower dive you and 100-0 you before she takes more than one tower shot. Let's also not forget that you basically can't hurt her because of a 100% AD scaling shield that has next to no CD for how strong it is. Let's also not forget that she has what, two instant, hard CCs? If that's not overpowered, I don't know what is.
I never brought up my own skill or lack thereof at the game, you on the other hand thought it necessary to flaunt your own stupidity by trying to condescend to me ("Just because mashing Q and facerolling the other buttons is hard for you doesn't mean it's hard for me").
It's only condescending if you take it that way. What's hard for one person is easy for another. What's fun for one person is boring for another. What tastes good to one person gags another. Subjectivity.
Oddysseas1 votesWell i fought this kalista yesterday, the dude was on fire, bullied me sooooo hard, and his soraka support was in my face the whole time, idk what rune soraka had, she would q every 3 seconds and her goddamn mana was always up. i was poor Quinn and stood no chance agaist them. Her skill cap was crazy on that champion, after i stayed alive for the entire time, i took advantage of one small tiny mistake to get a double kill and that was it, i snowballed it so hard, no matter how good that kalista was, i would always come on top and with the fight. What i mean is if you see someone being overly good at a champion, DONT EVER LET THEM KILL YOU, even if you miss on exp, even if you don't cs, DONT LET THEM KILL YOU. They will get so mad that even tho they have so much skill on that champion and they have no kills that they will soon start diving and making mistakes, then you kill them a couple times, maybe use some jungler help, and then it doesn't matter how good their mechanics are you will bully them till the game is over.
Oddysseas1 votesI wanna see what you have to say about a well played Nasus..........
Only Play Darius2 votesNasus is much, much harder to play than he appears. Playing him requires patience, time management, minion micromanagement, and knowing your limits/knowing when to avoid fights, among other things that many other champions don't need to concern themselves with.
If you don't believe me go watch SirHcez or Trick2G.
z63XnLCMwX1 votesThe problem with these high skill cap champion is they also have a high skill floor.
TyroneWatermelon1 votesLee vahne and riven are brainless champs.. Aside is weak when played wrong