Give Zoe W a Mana Cost

FeistyPoptart··45 votes·12,806 views

Idk I just hate that she can just do half ur hp bar at lvl 3 if she finds an ignite in one of ur minions. I just don't think its fair that she should be able to pick up summoner spells, some of the most powerful and game impacting spells, from the ground and it has literally no downside. You could argue that she is missing a real ability when she doesnt have any spells stored but its really not that hard to find one considering multiple minions in a wave can have one and champions are constantly dropping them in teamfights. I feel like a mana cost would at least be a decent nerf to her early game considering her q barely costs any mana so she can just spam q to waveclear all lane until she can get a good shot at her e or just spam you with summoner spells+her stronger ahri w until you are low enough for an all in. Another thing I would like to see, though this is just me being greedy at this point, reduce the time she puts people to sleep for. It would add some form of skill to her combo after hitting her e. Like she could be forced to very quickly cast her q as her e puts someone to sleep in order to get the guaranteed hit+extra damage rather than her landing e then having time to walk back a pretty good distance, cast q, cast q again, and walk back again.

46 Comments

Astorine20 votes

You are not happy with zoes balance, a few angry zoe mains will throw themesleves at this and downvote then say something about "muh MASSIVE skill cap!".

Crimson Zeppelin5 votes

{quoted}

You are not happy with zoes balance, a few angry zoe mains will throw themesleves at this and downvote then say something about "muh MASSIVE skill cap!".

That is wrong. We already know the W is overloaded (even with parts that are not explained in text) to a extreme that it make it seem Jhin's passive is a simple poem. That is why Q nerfs were postponed and W damage was nerfed. It is just way too high early game.

The REAL current problem with Zoe is that her RELIABLE damage is way too high. Which is her passive and W orbs. It makes the bedrock of her snowballing to start since Q-AA-Q-AA-Qhit-W is pretty much a unavoidable cheese at lvl2. This burns off their potions or even flash. If they stay in lane after the lvl 2, they are forced to face her E next with no flash. I think this is too much for current immobile mages to handle.

Or how about this change? They nerf Zoe's W so the stolen summoners/items become nerfed versions of them. I think this is a fair nerf that both sides of the argument can gladly accept and is easy to make.

Astorine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XP2wzczt,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-07-25T09:33:28.714+0000)

That is wrong. We already know the W is overloaded (even with parts that are not explained in text) to a extreme that it make it seem Jhin's passive is a simple poem. That is why Q nerfs were postponed and W damage was nerfed. It is just way too high early game.

The REAL current problem with Zoe is that her RELIABLE damage is way too high. Which is her passive and W orbs. It makes the bedrock of her snowballing to start since Q-AA-Q-AA-Qhit-W is pretty much a unavoidable cheese at lvl2. This burns off their potions or even flash. If they stay in lane after the lvl 2, they are forced to face her E next with no flash. I think this is too much for current immobile mages to handle.

Or how about this change? They nerf Zoe's W so the stolen summoners/items become nerfed versions of them. I think this is a fair nerf that both sides of the argument can gladly accept and is easy to make.

A smaller sleep time OR qss properly cleansing E would help And yes, the W speels need to be nerfed

D357R0Y3R4 votes

if you want to get a smaller sleep time then you buy mercury treads and prevent her from getting a max range Q

Astorine4 votes

{quoted}

if you want to get a smaller sleep time then you buy mercury treads and prevent her from getting a max range Q

I called that someone defending zoe was coming, CALLED IT. But merc treads wont save you bud.

D357R0Y3R4 votes

yep they do Scarra uses them everytime and unless she's empowered she won't get a max range Q

Astorine1 votes

{quoted}

yep they do Scarra uses them everytime and unless she's empowered she won't get a max range Q

And it does not need to be max range to be oppressive...

egOrhythm9 votes

{quoted}

You are not happy with zoes balance, a few angry zoe mains will throw themesleves at this and downvote then say something about "muh MASSIVE skill cap!".

Massive skill cap my droopy left nut. Zoe is utter cancer -> Fact.

Astorine1 votes

{quoted}

Massive skill cap my droopy left nut. Zoe is utter cancer -> Fact.

Yeet

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Zoe is utter cancer -> Opinion

ftfy

Recon12122 votes

While I am not a Zoe main, I am level 7 and find great success on her, shes stupid. Her wave clear is insanely easy, her early game damage is absurd, and her bubble is just gross. Like I get the true dmg is there for tanks, but ffs make it so if they have more than a certain amount of MR or health THEN it does true damage.

Her Q alone is a fine ability, yes it does a lot of damage, but without her E it's not that easy to hit at max range. Her W on the other hand is bonkers. I get the uniqueness it gives, but it does way to much for how powerful it can be in lane and in a team fight.

She gets one lucky minion to drop an ignite or a GLP/Protobelt and she has such an upper hand. And then the amount she can spam it in a team fight and get all the move speed and the damage it gives is little overkill.

Astorine1 votes

{quoted}

While I am not a Zoe main, I am level 7 and find great success on her, shes stupid. Her wave clear is insanely easy, her early game damage is absurd, and her bubble is just gross. Like I get the true dmg is there for tanks, but ffs make it so if they have more than a certain amount of MR or health THEN it does true damage.

Her Q alone is a fine ability, yes it does a lot of damage, but without her E it's not that easy to hit at max range. Her W on the other hand is bonkers. I get the uniqueness it gives, but it does way to much for how powerful it can be in lane and in a team fight.

She gets one lucky minion to drop an ignite or a GLP/Protobelt and she has such an upper hand. And then the amount she can spam it in a team fight and get all the move speed and the damage it gives is little overkill.

This seems quite reasonable, her Q is ok without being too sleepy to dodge it.

Fisher No Chains15 votes

And possibly a static cooldown too, like 2/3 seconds. I say it myself as a Zoe player, but killing people by spamming W is just braindead and uninteractive.

HonestJohnTheCon5 votes

Or maybe put the damage orbs on a longer cooldown, like 10-12 seconds. That way she can still spam her Flashes in fights while not dealing tons of lock-on no-skill damage.

BrokenRayquaza4 votes

I like this idea, and I main Zoe. I want her to be less of a brute force champ and more of a high skill ceiling champ.

Scorpio Szn4 votes

Give it a mana cost and make it so the orbs can only trigger once every few seconds, but she can still spam summoners she finds on the ground.

BestPudgeNA4 votes

Seems fair too me!

Teemo W Move Quick COST: 40 mana COOLDOWN: 17

Passive: Teemo gains bonus movement speed if he hasn't taken damage from enemy champions or turrets for 5 seconds.

Active: Teemo doubles his bonus movement speed for 3 seconds and prevents it from being disabled by damage for the duration. ** Bonus Movement Speed: 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26%**

Active Bonus Movement Speed: ** 20 / 28 / 36 / 44 / 52%**

Zoe W Spell Thief EFFECT RADIUS: 2200 (Enemy Casts) / Global (Minions) / 550 COOLDOWN: 0.25 MANA cost 0

Passive - Spell Thief: Whenever enemy champions cast a Spells icon summoner spell or item active, they drop the corresponding Spell Shard onto the ground that grants Sight icon sight over a 100-radius area and remains for 40 seconds. Some enemy Minions Killed icon minions spawn with random Spell Shards that only drop to the ground for 20 seconds if killed by Zoe.

Collecting a Spell Shard allows Zoe to activate Spell Thief within the next 60 seconds. She can replace her current Spell Thief active by moving directly onto another Spell Shard.

Active: Zoe mimics the active of the collected Spell Shard.

Passive - Wheeeee: Casting Spell Thief or one of her own summoner spells grants Zoe Movement speed icon bonus movement speed for the next few seconds, and summons three bubbles that orbit her for the next 10 seconds. The bubbles autonomously hurl themselves at the nearest enemy in range, prioritizing her attack target, dealing magic damage.

Bonus Movement Speed: 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70%

**Bonus Movement Speed Duration: 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 / 2.75 / 3 **

Total Magic Damage: 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 / 195 (+ 55% AP)

Per Orb: 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 / 65 (+ 18.3% AP)

I am bIack4 votes

why not just lower the drop rate of those orbs for her w? honestly, they drop extremely often. Just lower that.

Summonah123693 votes

Yi's E also doesn't cost mana :/

Jet Sett1 votes

{quoted}

Yi's E also doesn't cost mana :/

Brb casting Redemption in lane with E

Radiant Seraph3 votes

As a Zoe main I wouldn't add a mana cost on her W. Instead, I'd put an ACTUAL friggin' mana cost on Q and E. Seriously, I can spam the shit out of my abilities in lane until I'm like level 7 or something. Why does her Q only have 50 to 70 mana cost? It should be 60 to 80 or even 70 at all ranks. Also her E should have a 90 mana cost. Don't let me SPAM my oneshot combo early. Also remove W bolts interacting with passive, it feels clunky to play with and bullshit to play against.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

I totally agree with that change to her W. Feels bad for both parties. As for her Q cost I could see it being increased by a bit, I just don't like it when mages are FORCED to get Manaflow.

Fìzž2 votes

Eh, she's probably one of the most infuriating champions to lane against, at this point I just instant dodge if I'm against her.

The Lexer2 votes

I like where some of these comments are going with the W cooldown or orbs' cooldown.

However, I would also like to point out that you cannot "spam" Q early and not run oom.

goodiesohhi2 votes

Takes a look at winrates. Okay. I'll take the downvotes but I'm gonna say it. Zoe isn't op.

Nausicäa 2 votes

I find it funny that kids in here are still raging about Zoe when theres far worse balance issues with the game right now. Not like an entire class of champions, Assassins, are dominating the game right now or anything.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Well, no.

It should not have a mana cost. It's already by chance that she even gets an offensive spell from it.

FeistyPoptart1 votes

That part doesnt even matter considering getting a defensive spell still lets her do a shit ton of damage with her stronger ahri w that also gives a shit ton of movespeed

Boulderox2 votes

As i have said before Riot: Nidalee Q spam is an unhealthy mechanic for the game (back when she was a mid laner) Riot: Zoe balanced... https://i.imgur.com/se7yvRv.gif

Klavier2 votes

Nidalee had a bunch of stuff going on not only her Q...

Boulderox1 votes

{quoted}

Nidalee had a bunch of stuff going on not only her Q...

Very true, but her Q spam was highlighted as a big part of why she was a problem, and part of why she had her mini rework, taking power away from the Q spam to the cougar form. Meanwhile, Zoe was a problem due to her Q and E combo, so they nerfed that, and then gave that power to the W, now she is so strong that she is an even bigger problem than before... Zoe just doesn't balance well, she either is broken Op or garbage tier, there is no way around it i feel. And it really saddens me when i see her being so forced in every part of the game. Power, Lore, etc... Every part of her kit, design, and gameplay i despise seperatly, if they were split among different champs, i would hate them just as much. They are annoying and unfun, which goes against the core POINT of playing a video game, to have fun. It doesn't matter how good you are, that one mistake and she has the power to nuke you, that isn't fun or exciting gameplay, and she just adds more problems the game faces that it doesn't help.

meanwhile Akali rework just adds to the pile

The Space Cowboy2 votes

I think you meant to title this post "give zoe a mana cost". Everything on her kit feels like URF.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

Have her w do zero dmg and instead put it all into q and e

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

Have her w do zero dmg and instead put it all into q and e

Dracocrash3 votes

no?

Dog of Pavlov1 votes

First they put the damage into her q on release, and you could HEAVILY chunk people without items early levels. Then they put damage into her w (waaaayyyy too much). I think they need to keep her damage but adjust her cooldowns and mana costs, since she can spam abilities so often without worrying about them not being up for long.

oortoomeebreesuu1 votes

its the one part of her gameplay that prevents punishment from the champions that are supposed to counter. you can never be hit by e or q, but for some reason just auto attacking somebody after getting a free protobelt and suddenly they have to recall.

Recon12121 votes

What they really need to do is limit what minions drop. Getting rid of TP was a good idea, but having something like ignite just drop for free, with it being as strong as it is, is crazy.

I don't what they should limit it too, but it feels like it shouldn't be something she gets to use often. Like I feel like it should almost be limited to when she picks up a used summoner instead getting free ones just cause she can last hit.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

That'd have to be moved onto her passive, with her being given an actual ability for her W, then.

You can't just ask that a champion effectively have an ability removed without compensation.

Recon12121 votes

You can't move an ability that needs to be activated by the user to a passive, cause there's no button assigned to passive.

But I don't think they should remove it, or nerf it so much it's essentially removed, that's not what I meant to get across at all. I feel that with all the move gives it's too much in lane, from the drop itself to the move speed and the damage it gives if shes close enough. I love the uniqueness of the ability, but something needs to get down to it in someway to tone it down a bit.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Exactly. You're simply asking for her W to be removed. You may be saying you aren't asking for it to be nerfed to that state, but what you're asking for contradicts that sentiment.

Recon12121 votes

What I'm asking for is for them to nerf something about the ability to make it more bearable. Riot removed the invulnerability from Ornn's W and that didn't "remove the ability." Taking something away from an ability or shifting power to make it less frustrating to deal with doesn't remove all usefulness of said ability. If you want to take what I said and make it out that I want them to remove everything about the ability that makes it decent then go ahead, but that's not at all what I'm saying.

All they would need to do, is make her get less move speed early and it do less damage and it's in a better place. That's all I'm saying. Take some of the power out early so she ins't as explosive early, and maybe changes the numbers later too, IDK I don't balance the game.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Oh yeah, forgot Azir had no passive.

Recon12121 votes

His passive isn't activated by pressing a key. When a tower is destroyed and he has it up it prompts him to click on the tower just like if someone is CC'd Swain can pull them with his passive.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

So clicking isn't pressing a key? Okay then.

Recon12121 votes

No a key is a key on a KEYboard. Mouses of buttons or Clicks if you wanna say left click.

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