Bard is Underwhelming

Laraso··8 votes·1,652 views

I've played him quite a bit and while I think he's fun, and I reaaaally love his Elderwood aesthetics but most of all his "voice", I think his kit is just very underwhelming.

I mean, during laning phase he's at his best, but even then he's still very mediocre. You have an unreliable stun, and a heal. That's about it until you get your ult, which does no damage, makes the enemy invulnerable, is easy to flash out of and even easier to mess up. Honestly he feels like he plays like a weaker version of Nami with weaker/delayed heals that don't damage the enemy, a worse stun that's blocked by two minions, a movespeed bonus that decays, and an AA slow that you can't give to other people. His E does literally absolutely nothing in laning phase, it's only really useful to get back to lane faster after you get finished picking up chimes or if you're roaming around and you see someone getting chased then you can help them get away with it. You are forced to spend time away from your team if you want your passive to do anything at all, putting not only yourself but also your ADC in danger while you're roaming around the map. If you wait until after laning phase to collect chimes, your passive will be useless in lane. I will admit, the one thing he does better than most other champions is burst healing, if you stack all 3 health shrines and someone steps over it, you get healed for a ridiculous amount, but even then it's still worse than a Soraka and it's easy to counter because you're forced to stand near them to be of any use and the enemy can easily focus their skillshots/cc on the health shrines when they see someone running to them, not to mention simply walking over them will destroy the shrines.

And I mean, past laning phase, what does he really have to offer besides his ult? He's squishy with low ratios, his healing shrines give very low amounts of health if you don't leave them to charge, and he has almost no damage to speak of whatsoever. His Q is a weak and unreliable stun compared to other supports and in teamfights nobody really has time to walk out of the fight to go pick up a health pack. His ult is, more often than not, better left unused in teamfights because with large amounts of people the casting and travel time of it makes results very unpredictable, and you have a fairly good chance of actually screwing your team over.

Most supports are consistently useful, while Bard seems only situationally useful throughout the entire game and it feels like you just have to be lucky because the effectiveness of his ENTIRE kit depends on a combination of your enemies and your teams positioning in ways that are far outside of your control. Maybe I'm just not playing him right. What are your thoughts?

26 Comments

Raptamei11 votes

"Kalista is useless, no damage, too squishy" -Boards during week 1.

Remlap12234 votes

Honestly, while I do feel that Bard is underpowered, I feel that once the meta shifts in the right way, he's going to be a staple in professional play. Solo Queue he's going to be shit tier.

As for Kalista, the instant I saw her kit, without even looking at my bias towards CertainlyT's shit, I instantly said to myself "this bitch is going to be broken as fuck." Then I saw it was a CertainlyT abomination, and immediatley got hindsight bias and said "well shoulda saw that one coming." And lo and behold, Kalista is effectively permabanned in LCS, and I haven't won a single goddamn match against her, despite her winrate being average. Hmmm. Wonder why that is?

Silents4291 votes

You are terrible?

Not hard to win against if she wants to pansy out of every fight then let her, but whenever I go against her as Sivir bot she dies.

Remlap12231 votes

So let me get this straight, I'm bad because I'm losing to a champ that can't be caught without someone with a targeted form of hard CC (Taric) or Sivir? The logic is overwhelming. You know who also has only two counters in this game? Yorick Do you know how much Riot hates Yorick? He is permabanned from champion rotations, and is intentionally ignored every patch. Eventually Riot's going to wise up to how broken this bitch is, but only after she cheeses the LCS game that she isn't banned in.

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

Eventually Riot's going to wise up to how broken this bitch is, but only after she cheeses the LCS game that she isn't banned in.

Currently in the EU LCS (http://lol.gamepedia.com/2015_EU_LCS_Spring/Scoreboards/Round_Robin/Overview ), she is the 14th most banned, 22nd most picked, and has the 15th most wins (although tbf she has the 2nd best winrate for popular champs).

Maybe it depends on region though? In the NA LCS (http://lol.gamepedia.com/2015_NA_LCS_Spring/Scoreboards/Round_Robin/Overview ), she is 8th most banned but only 22nd most picked, with 21 wins and a 58% winrate (11th best for popular champs).

I'm too lazy to check other leagues, but it appears she's about as strong as Nidalee, a strong champ but not someone so insanely broken a little tuning can't fix it. That's in the LCS anyway, can't speak to anything but Bronze SoloQ (where she is maybe the weak end of strong, at least with a good support) from personal experience.

Remlap12231 votes

I'm sorry, but regardless of the win rates, the fact that she can do 2K damage to Baron is ludicrous. There is way too much abuse that someone can do with Kalista.

SecretAgentHulk3 votes

I would classify that as "a little tuning". I definitely believe it should be damage-capped, but overall believe that her kit is healthy or at least decent, even if balance/tuning/numbers could use some work.

ETA: Also, my larger point was that she's already a high-level pick but not necessarily a high-level ban, and that while she is strong, she does not "consistently cheese" LCS games.

Remlap12231 votes

She needs more than "a little tuning." Her kit is completely broken. She needs a new passive, she is never going to be balanced with her passive the way it is. At the very least, her range needs to be reduced to 500 to compensate for it. Her Q is fine, arguably the only thing balanced about her kit. Her W is fine on paper, but a 20% max health magic damage nuke is ridiculous. It needs to be physical damage, have a longer cooldown, and not a guaranteed kill for Kalista. Her E needs to be hard capped, and have the slow scale with the number of spears she lands. Her ultimate needs to have the knockup duration significantly reduced, and have it silenced whenever the support is rooted, stunned, or suppressed.

And like I said, 2K damage nuke on an objective like dragon or baron is cheese. No jungler can do that much damage, so why does Kalista get a free pass? It's stuff like this that makes me unable to take Kalista seriously.

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

She needs more than "a little tuning." Her kit is completely broken.

That's a great opinion, thanks.

She needs a new passive, she is never going to be balanced with her passive the way it is. At the very least, her range needs to be reduced to 500 to compensate for it.

IDK, I don't see a reason to remove it (although range nerf would prob be nice), but I wouldn't cry if it left either.

Her Q is fine, arguably the only thing balanced about her kit. Her W is fine on paper, but a 20% max health magic damage nuke is ridiculous. It needs to be physical damage, have a longer cooldown, and not a guaranteed kill for Kalista.

Fair enough.

Her E needs to be hard capped, and have the slow scale with the number of spears she lands.

Agreed.

Her ultimate needs to have the knockup duration significantly reduced, and have it silenced whenever the support is rooted, stunned, or suppressed.

Whatever, it's an ult so it's OK IMO but these could be healthy.

And like I said, 2K damage nuke on an objective like dragon or baron is cheese. No jungler can do that much damage, so why does Kalista get a free pass? It's stuff like this that makes me unable to take Kalista seriously.

You said "cheese LCS games", not "cheese dragon". She still doesn't cheese LCS games. And I still agree her E damage needs to be capped so she can't cheese dragon. What's your point? My first was "she won't be nerfed the first time she sees LCS play, because she already does, doesn't cheese them, and hasn't been nerfed." My other point was "she's about as strong as Nidalee, who was rather broken for a bit but is getting back on track with numbers nerfs; why does Kalista have to be different." To which you only respond "well it's broken so she needs to be gutted". To which I say, "measure twice, cut once—let's give them a bit longer to tune things."

Silents4291 votes

Can kill her with or without targeted CC, Sivir isn't the only ADC that can stomp her weak ass.

How is Yorick hard to play against? Especially with mana regen nerfed, just go into the bush and his ghouls target the minions, don't fight him 1v1 when he has ult, or just kite him. He isn't that hard to play against just annoying in lane.

Killstrado1 votes

And yet people are still rushing hurricane smh... Rush ie get phantom and shiv guarantee you'll be a lot better off than that runaans with anything

Kitten of Evil3 votes

His passive scaling needs a boost. I did the math -- at the current rate of chimes spawning, 118 chimes have spawned by 50 minutes into the game. If you don't miss a single chime, you still miss out on a bunch of his passive boosts (which scale up to 150 chimes collected before the flat "every 5 after gives 20 damage"). It feels very unrewarding to go out of lane to collect the 2 or 3 chimes near you, since upgrades require 5.

His meeps also need a toggle. You have 3 or 4 available by the end of the game, but they recharge very slowly, so if you're helping your team with dragon, all your meeps are gone in the teamfight. Or if you have to help defend an inhib, meeps are gone. For being such a huge part of his damage, you often have to use them before you want to.

I'm also not sure how you're meant to build him. He scales pretty poorly with AP (30% on his passive, 50% on his Q, 20%-45% on his W), doesn't really benefit from AD or AS, so it's basically just CDR and movement speed... and I guess other assorted tanky stats. Not that he offers enough CC or AOE damage to be built tank either. Enemies will just ignore him.

That being said, his W is great in laning phase, his ultimate is incredibly powerful if used right and has a ton of flexibility -- you can make picks, you can catch fleeing enemies, you can save fleeing allies, you can shield people from DoT that would kill them, and in teamfights if you can land a great ult, you can freeze half of the enemy team, making the fight 5v3 for a few seconds.

The Red Warden3 votes

Let him stay for at least a patch without changes, you can't judge his potential when you havn't seen anyone with experience use him. Changing him now would just end up with a new problem that didn't exist before.

SecretAgentHulk1 votes

I would suggest, though, making meeps visually closer to what they are—insane missiles that can easily deal 150% of a support's AD, rivalling what a mid-game ADC could crank out.

Hoi Im Temmo2 votes

This has been my experience as well. He looks fun, but they wanted to shove as much utility into a champ as possible, as well as make a champ who "breaks the meta" but both cause him to kinda flop.

Wheatloaf2 votes

Bard's strengths are map movement and setting up fights, so he has an incredible freedom to help his team pick the fights that they want. Of course that means he has lower in-combat efficiency than most other supports to compensate, because he's supposed to be vulnerable if you manage to catch him on your terms.

Fried Noob2 votes

Then everything changed once the Koreans played

LordDarkshayde1 votes

Stop QQ'ing about leaving your ADC alone in lane. In LCS they constantly let ADCs 1v2 lanes as supports roam the map. What your ADC needs to learn to do is farm safely while you roam to collect passives and gank other lanes. A support is not just the ADC's support they are the TEAM's support. If your ADC is too blind to see you have walked out of lane and they try to 1v2 the enemy instead of just farming up (while also receiving solo lane xp) then that is their fault not the Bard (or any other support that roams for that matter). Bard is not underwhelming he just takes alot of getting used to. He really shines in teamfights because you can ult their back line while your team destroys their frontline leaving the backline now severely unprotected. The only trouble with Bard is he requires teammates with brains to function properly and unfortunately that is hard to find in lower ELOs.

Laraso2 votes

I feel like he's actually fairly weak in teamfights, compared to other supports. All you really have is your Q and Ult, your heal is weak if uncharged (nobody really has time to walk out of the teamfight to pick up a fully charged one) and your E does nothing. I understand your point about leaving your ADC alone but you also completely ignored all the other points I made in my post.

LordDarkshayde1 votes

In teamfights it is much easier to land a Q stun compared to lane phase where minions get in the way and stunning 2 members of the enemy team can turn a teamfight easily in your favor. Yes his heal is weak unless you build some AP on him which is why I always rush Rylai's as my first item after sightstone and mobi boots. Gives you more health to survive fights, meeps proc additional slow, and the ap beef up your heals some. Also I generally use the health packs as a speed boost for my carries in teamfights to help them either chase or escape. As for his E it is mainly used to help flank in teamfights or to help disengage from them. It is also a wonderful baiting tool if you can get enemies to follow you through it to your waiting team.

Laraso1 votes

I'm not saying he doesn't have strengths, I'm just saying that other supports have more consistent and useful strengths. Compare his stun to a Nami bubble, for instance.

His heal has a 20% AP ratio, by the way. I feel like Spirit Visage would be better than Rylai's. Better defense, CDR to use your abilties more, and your self-heals will be far stronger.

LordDarkshayde1 votes

You shouldn't be worrying about healing yourself in the first place unless you are the only one severely injured in a fight. You should be taking care of your teammates before your own personal health.

Hoffmisc1 votes

Bard's healing scales so terribly into late game, and the speed buff is a static 50% for 1.5 seconds at all ranks...

My personal opinion: it's just a bad ability at the moment.

D1rtFarmer1 votes

,he needs a slight slight touch to his dmg.

BeerOfRoot48431 votes

Yeah you can't go full Ap with him, he must be useless.

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