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Does anyone else feel the new rune system shafts every role that's not AD?

Packun Flower··70 votes·13,287 views

Specifically AP champs. I mean you have the 5 tree's. Precision, Domination, Sorcery, Resolve and Inspiration and mixing them sounds like it could be fun but.. after looking over all the option I find that AP burst champs don't really mix well into any other tree, mainly because a lot of runes that aren't in the Sorcery tree require auto attacking, something mages aren't known to do often.

AD champs have Precision and Domination for damage. Alot of runes in here require auto attacking. They also have 2 tree's while every other role gets 1.

Tanks have Resolve but can also mix into Inspiration well for utility or Precision and Domination for some extra damage.

Supports have Inspiration but can mix into Resolve for added survivablility.

So where does this leave AP champs? I personally find the sorcery tree doesn't mix well into any other rune tree. It just seems odd to go down the Sorcery and then go down an AD tree like Precision or Domination for more damage when almost all the runes in those tree's exclusively benefit AD champs. Going into Resolve just feels off because as a burst mage I don't expect to be gaining HP or tank stats (Not that thats a bad thing) but I'd rather have some form of penetration or build up damage, and the the inspiration tree doesn't feel like it adds anything beneficial to my role at all.

I suppose you could go down the Resolve tree for survivablity but that just feels off to me as well when playing glass canon champs like Annie Brand Katarina Orianna and so on.

the only other runes I find might work with AP burst cannons are the following.

Precision Cut Down Triumphant

Domination Eyeball collection Cheap Shot.

To me, thats not a whole lot of option but maybe I'm just over thinking it.

99 Comments

GrievousFetus30 votes

Runes are just fine for AP. The primary problem is just that some are undertuned as hell. Cheap shot is infinitely inferior to sudden impact. Scorch is a joke numerically, pigeonholing even early game mages into the late game oriented Gathering Storm. Celerity is much worse than Transcendence but (unlike EVERY other role!) AP mages struggle to hit the CDR cap, let alone have their builds threatened by chronic overcapping (thanks kindlegem), so they're all forced into Absolute Focus. Mages are the class most gated by Mana, so the vast majority have to take manaflow band instead of Nullify Orb or Ult Hat.

Domination and Sorcery are both completely serviceable for AP, and precision is a valid secondary. The problem is that a lot of "choice" is eliminated either because one option is so vital or overtuned it must be taken or another option is so undertuned people end up taking the option that's better in sheer numbers even though it doesn't fit their playstyle.

RocketRelm8 votes

Additionally, I feel like Inspiration isn't 100% a "support" tree, but can work just fine with mages as well. Some mages, at least.

GrievousFetus2 votes

The rune trees aren't divided into specific roles of specific positions, although some are more biased than others. Inspiration is clearly not strictly for support, and mages, tanks, assassins and bruisers can all benefit from sorcery for instance. Resolve is the only tree that's radically tuned for a specific role and even then it works as a secondary for ADCs and supports solely because of demolish.

I think Riot did a good job with the runes, the problem is just that some runes are so under or over powered we're presented with false choices.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Demolish will be shit for ADCs, because it's 4s charging time (probably gonna require a channel), and scales off of bonus health. Literally no ADC will want it.

I can't imagine supports taking it, either...

GrievousFetus5 votes

Is it a channel? I was under the impression there was just a passive charge while you did any other action.

Edit: can confirm its not a channel, you can AA the tower the enemy time demolish is charging.

Now, ADCs don't scale with of build a lot of hp, but even at level 1, demolish is 500 damage (champs have roughly 600 health after their doran's item, it has a flat base value of 375 in addition to the 20% max hp)? Bot Lane turret has no early protection and bot Lane has two champions, meanwhile first brick advantage is huge.

ADCs have few relevant secondary runes they're going to 100% want all the time from the Dom, sorc, and insp trees. The only real competition for demolish in your secondary is gathering storm from sorcery, or biscuits from inspiration. Plenty of tank supports want resolve as their primary and enchanters will spec resolve as their secondary for revitalize. Double demolish bot lanes give up very little to no early kill pressure (most sorcery and domination runes are mid-late game or roaming oriented) while having huge tower killing pressure.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

I thought it was an active channel. My bad.

But I doubt any ADC will be taking Demolish. Sure, a good number will opt into Resolve, but I sincerely doubt they'll chose Demolish over armor, MR, shielding, health gain, regen, Perseverance, and Font of Life. Don't get me wrong, it's a strong rune, that will definitely need to be accompanied by overall buffs to turrets, but I just can't see any marksmen opting into it. There are just too many better choices to bother with it as a marksman.

GrievousFetus2 votes

I disagree, the entire second row of resolve is a write off for ADCs. it's %resistance bonuses on champions that build almost no resistances and have low natural armour. With the second row written off it means you're taking something from the top row if you go into resolve as a secondary. Font of life is pretty bad on ADCs unless you're going to meme it up with mallet, and the healing is penalized on yourself anyway. Perseverance is the only competition for demolish if you go into resolve realistically.

What's most important to be seen is if demolish will radically accelerate the time the first turret falls. If it does, that early game focus will make it hugely important. Stats on wins with first brick indicate it's of overwhelming importance especially bot lane.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

The bonus resistances will be...kinda weak, but still taken for that little bit of extra durability.

And Font of Life will likely be core on Ashe, given that it allows her to heal even more off of every hit. And her allies can heal off of it as well. This rune is definitely gonna have impact on Ashe's viability in all tiers.

I still can't see Demolish being that useful for a marksman. They're already the fastest class for taking turrets (barring a few rare exceptions for a few champions even better at killing turrets, such as Nasus or Diana), and it's almost certain that the scaling will be changed to bonus health, rather than total health.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see, though.

Glory ln Death2 votes

At level 1, Font of Life gives Ashe a grand total of 4 healing when attacking champions. At level 18, it increases to 8. It's not going to change anything.

It's more believable to say the changes to Ardent Censer that give the user the attack speed/on-hit buff are going to make Bond of Stone Ashe Support meta.

It Hertz When IP4 votes

{quoted}

Demolish will be shit for ADCs, because it's 4s charging time

Exactly. By the time it's charged, the turret's already down.

kappa

HeresyHorus18 votes

The bias toward AD was clearly shown with how Nullifying Orb works and its careful placement.

The shield is not adaptive, it only works against Magic damage.

Why it has been placed in Sorcery and not in Resolve, Inspiration or even in Domination ? ... to allow AD to take both it and Gathering Storm ( most AD wont give a shit about the other runes in Sorcery ) ? ... so it is the same "best of everything in one go" shit we saw earlier with item 3046 item 3087 item 3147 item 3812 item 3026 and again just for AD champs.

Also after seeing the Manaflow Band rune, i can easily foresee a heavy nerf to item 3165 Mana and AP ( and maybe CdR ) to "fulfill its purpose as just an anti healing niche item" and thus force Mages to make a "strategic meaningful choice" between that rune or Nullifying Orb or Ultimate Hat to have just one thing and not everything ( unlike AD ) .

I am glad i enjoy AD champs.

[sg-jinx]

But i do feel those who enjoy AP champs pain.

[zombie-nunu-tears]

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

The bias toward AD was clearly shown with how Nullifying Orb works and its careful placement.

Why ap players never stop bitching ?? its strictly ap cause MR will be lowered.

( most AD wont give a shit about the other runes in Sorcery )

its not true... The river thing is better for most AD assassin, AD Divers... mainly in roaming meta

Also after seeing the Manaflow Band rune, i can easily foresee a heavy nerf to Mana and AP ( and maybe CdR ) to "fulfill its purpose as just an anti healing niche item" and thus force Mages to make a "strategic meaningful choice"

Was same for AD with BC.

HeresyHorus2 votes

Why ap players never stop bitching ??

I am not an AP main.

its strictly ap cause MR will be lowered.

Really ! ... Armor will be lowered too with the removal of Armor runes, stop cherry picking please.

Flat MPen will be effectively lowered for Mages also cuz most of them cant make use of the Sudden Impact rune in addition to Eyeball Collection while most AD will be able to use both to stack Lethality.

its not true... The river thing is better for most AD assassin, AD Divers... mainly in roaming meta

Reliability is the name of the game dude, the rune u are talking about is very conditional and easily countered.

6 or 12 bonus AD at least is for sure better than a potential 0 bonus AD.

Was same for AD with BC.

I didnt intend to talk about item 3165 specifically because that wasn't my point, but since u mentioned it ...

When Riot made item 3165 the way it is now and made Mages innately crippled, their intention was to stop Mages from going bot lane and function there without being forced to by that item.

Have u ever tried to play a Mage without it ? ... it is impossible.

item 3071 was overloaded for absolutely no reason because most AD champs were ( and still are ) innately strong and didn't need it to function in the first place ( they were free to buy whatever they wanted from AD items without being crippled as hard as Mages would have been if they didn't want to buy item 3165 ), and that is why it got nerfed.

Comparing old item 3071 ( op item ) to new item 3165 ( band aid item ) is simply wrong.

Glory ln Death2 votes

Meddler has confirmed that base armor is getting increased across the board. He also stated that base magic resist will be lowered across the board.

With that being said, I don't like Nullifying Orb being in the Sorcery path. It doesn't fit the "spell empowerment" theme the path is supposed to have. It would be much better in Resolve as a replacement for the utterly awful Iron Skin/Mirror Shell runes. Either get rid of both and make an AD spinoff of Nullifying Orb, combine them into one and give Nullifying Orb a physical component, or integrate the shield into the other two to actually make them worth considering.

RiotAzuBK10 votes

In our playtests, AP champs have seen success with both Sorcery and Domination (and sometimes Inspiration!) primary paths, and that's only in playtests I've been in. We've also seen good diversity in secondary path selection as well as in the runes chosen for each path (Resolve is actually quite powerful - it's worth noting that right now on Live burst mages run defensive seals and sometimes glyphs).

Personally I'm a fan of Summoner Specialist in mid to shore up a weak early lane with Teleport before switching to Ghost/Exhaust/whatever the game demands, with the possibility of some slick TP plays later in the game.

GigglesO3 votes

{quoted}

In our playtests, AP champs have seen success with both Sorcery and Domination (and sometimes Inspiration!) primary paths, and that's only in playtests I've been in. We've also seen good diversity in secondary path selection as well as in the runes chosen for each path (Resolve is actually quite powerful - it's worth noting that right now on Live burst mages run defensive seals and sometimes glyphs).

Personally I'm a fan of Summoner Specialist in mid to shore up a weak early lane with Teleport before switching to Ghost/Exhaust/whatever the game demands, with the possibility of some slick TP plays later in the game.

Just wondering in your playtests, what are you running on champions like morde? Because I would really like to be able to play him on the tanky side of things, but as it appears I think riot expects to have morde take the new storm raiders, and just deal tons of damage. It honestly appears that (in this current meta, and how each season just creeps in more damage) anyone but the main cc tanks can nolonger build anything but damage. It also feels like the tank items just aren't effective in helping to stay alive.

RiotRiotRepertoir7 votes

The Morde main that has played him a few times in our playtests ("Gentleman Gustaf" from the patch notes squad, I believe) tends to run Predator on Morde and a bunch of other Juggernauts, and he generally seems to be crushing it in those tests. I'm not 100% sure if it's optimal, but I do recall him saying something along the lines of "I basically get to run 3 Summoners," where the Predator boots are like adding Ghost to your build. Not just Morde either, but I've seen some shockingly fast Skarner out of him.

Khristophoros2 votes

{quoted}

The Morde main that has played him a few times in our playtests ("Gentleman Gustaf" from the patch notes squad, I believe) tends to run Predator on Morde and a bunch of other Juggernauts, and he generally seems to be crushing it in those tests. I'm not 100% sure if it's optimal, but I do recall him saying something along the lines of "I basically get to run 3 Summoners," where the Predator boots are like adding Ghost to your build. Not just Morde either, but I've seen some shockingly fast Skarner out of him.

Predator will be core on any champion with mobility as its most limiting weakness, especially those that really want to find a way to engage. That should be obvious right?

RiotSkarnye West5 votes

In the words of the incomparable Jeff Goldblum: MUST GO FASTER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jdNTyA7QRM

Malicious Metal5 votes

Weird, from testing it on the PBE I've found Phase Rush to be way more reliable. Morde in particular doesn't build tanky enough to want to run at people and get low before the fighting even started.

Plus the 180 cd on it seems really punishing.

RiotSkarnye West4 votes

SOMEBODY SUMMONED ME? I'm not really a Morde main, but I guess I mostly play Skarner/Morde (at the moment I just got over churning from LoL for a few months so I've lost pretty steadily from D2-D5 and have been struggling with my enjoyment of the game).

Enter Predator. I'm not going to say that it's busted (it is), but I honestly feel like it's the most fun I've had playing LoL in forever.

I only play juggernauts, and one of my big frustrations is that, no matter how much I want to take summoner 6 - WE FAST NOW BOIS - I have to take summoner 4 because I want to be remotely mobile - or in Skarner's case, have a late-game play pattern.

Enter Predator Boots. Now you have both. Phase Rush seems alright but three spells? If I'm Morde, I ain't tryna drop my ult on somebody and blow my W early just so I don't get kited. Besides, if I have Rylai's I don't really need the three spells when I'm faster then the Blue Fuckin' Falcon (F-Zero, anybody?). And if I'm like Skarner or something I don't even fucking HAVE three ranged spells so what good is that Movement Speed going to do me if I don't get to use it until I'm already up in their asses dragging them back to my team.

SIDENOTE: Now that I think of it, blazing towards my team at 6 Teemos per second with a carry tied to my ass sounds fun...

But let's stay focused on Predator here. We gotta move now, not after we damage our opponents three times like what the fuck?

From there I can splash movement speed (Sorcery) OR pick up Hextech Flashtraption (I was not consulted on the name, I'd have called it "WE FLASHIN' NOW FAM") because that way even though I'm an immobile jungler I can hop over your walls and fuck your lanes.

DeathBurst2 votes

Predator sounds great but I have two issues with it.

  1. Isn't the CD too long, and wouldn't you be better off with the permanent MS of Celerity (in Sorcery) or Magical Footwear (in Inspiration)?
  2. The rest of the Domination Path doesn't sound that appealing to me for Juggernauts. I'd rather go into Resolve, either Sorcery or Inspiration, or even Precision before Domination. What makes you think Domination (as a whole) is better than Resolve (as a whole)?

(Also, can you share your whole Pages, pretty please? :) )

RiotSkarnye West3 votes
  1. WHY NOT BOTH? MUST GO FASTER

If I'm Skarner/Hecarim/Volibear/Mordekaiser, I go either:

Predator - Cheap Shot - Eyeball Collection - Relentless Hunter --- Celerity - Waterwalking or Scorch or Predator - Cheap Shot - Eyeball Collection - Relentless Hunter --- two of Hextech Flashtraption/Cosmic Insight/Magical Footwear

I don't go Magical Footwear often because Skarner needs those boots EAAAAARLY

I feel like the Resolve masteries are mixed (Perserverance is good, the bottom row is good, the resists row is meh because you don't stack resists, the keystones none feel particularly inspired for a jungler who isn't stacking resists but you'd probably take Aftershock I guess)

  1. none of those 4 champions stack resistances so After Shock feels mediocre (the damage is nice I suppose)
  2. Guardian are you trolling?
  3. Grasp of the Undying looks so cool in lane but like in the jungle meh.
  4. Perserverance is pretty cool actually
  5. The resists row is again meh because not stacking resists
  6. The bottom ones are pretty decent I guess

And if that list doesn't convince you, nothing in Resolve makes you GO FASTER.

But I guess you could go

Aftershock - Perserverance - Conditioning - Any of the three left - Celerity - Waterwalking or Scorch

That sounds pretty good.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

It's refreshing to see someone who appreciates Skarner's FASTNESSSSSSSS.

Pop Dead Man's Plate on top and I'll be zoomin'. Is that a Piltover Customs Blitz burnin' rubber? No, it's my trEADS SQUISHIN YOUR FAMILY.

Question. Slows keep us from FAAAAAAAAAAAST have you tried Predator combined with Perseverance + Swifties for some juicy slow resist, plus extra slow resist on-demand with Smite?

RiotSkarnye West2 votes

I'll check it out. Celerity just feels MADE for Skarner, but... (I often go ward smite which is part of why I've avoided Perserverance, but if you go Blue/Red Smite...)

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Predator - Cheap Shot - Eyeball Collection - Relentless Hunter --- two of Hextech Flashtraption/Cosmic Insight/Magical Footwear

Wut ??? Predator along magical footwear ?? so u are same as naked during 10 first min (a bit less, if u get some kill).

Mysticman892 votes

I take it you've had your coffee today.

RiotSkarnye West2 votes

I DON'T EVEN DRINK COFFEE (or, really any caffeine). Not intentionally, I just don't really enjoy coffee/tea/soda

Mordepool1 votes

For a Long Time I've been looking for a Rioter that sees things from my perspective. Found ya finally

RiotSkarnye West3 votes

My alternate accounts are named Skarnye West and Trollibear

GigglesO1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gustaf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XMaWOOIE,comment-id=001500000001,timestamp=2017-10-03T17:44:09.712+0000)

Enter Predator Boots. Now you have both. Phase Rush seems alright but three spells? If I'm Morde, I ain't tryna drop my ult on somebody and blow my W early just so I don't get kited. Besides, if I have Rylai's I don't really need the three spells when I'm faster then the Blue Fuckin' Falcon (F-Zero, anybody?). And if I'm like Skarner or something I don't even fucking HAVE three ranged spells so what good is that Movement Speed going to do me if I don't get to use it until I'm already up in their asses dragging them back to my team.

See I'm just getting conflicting messages about what the designers feel like melee's should be picking up.

You have this coming from AzuBK

"That said, Phase Rush is a different keystone from Stormraider's Surge despite its surface-level similarities. The new activation paradigm means the audience is different - melee bruisers are generally happier taking this version whereas some mages like Vladimir have more difficulty activating it. Phase Rush is also easier to activate in early lane, which is meaningful for a keystone that is on the upper end in terms of late-game output."

While we have a rioter that plays juggernauts, what do you think about a slight redesign around mordes shield passive? I feel like opening it up to 25% of all damage dealt would open up some interesting ad builds, and allow tmail and sunfirecape to be viable ways to gain (very) small amounts of shied.

I also really want to make an intelligent complain about armor pen and the lack of good tank options in this game, but I feel like I'm a very small minority for wanting reduced damage. So maybe a question would best. Why can't we have tank champions have a lower base stats/damage or ect... so that we can buff tank itemization? Other classes like bruisers and juggernauts that would really like to buy tank items can't seem to do it very efficiently, and I feel like it is because of itemization.

Another question I have is what about itemization? Like an ap version of phage, or even some access to sustain? It feels silly that the only sustain is lifesteal, and that there is no good options for mana except morello. anything else pretty much leaves you without mana after a fight. Also speaking of silly, it feels silly to build mana items on non-mana champions, is there some way we could have "replacement" stats for champions that don't have mana? It could function sort of like your new adaptive ad/ap runes or even adaptive resists wher eyou get a % of armor as mr and or MR as armor...

Anyways, I'll just leave the final comment as thank you for the information.

AirKingNeo7 votes

EVERYTHING IS ADCS FAULT AND ADCS ARE RUINING THE GAME

I AM THE LEAGUE BOARDS

I'm going insane

Abibyama1 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/rd2yxEvE-the-game-is-ruin

Durzaka6 votes

Dont pretend the new system is good for Tanks.

Its fucking terrible. The survivability they are giving doesnt even compensate old runes and masteries, let alone adding MORE like every AD role is getting. (yes, I know base stats will be tweaked. But that doesnt change what I just said that the tank runes are weak af)

The Deckowner5 votes

Rito is biased towards adc, what is new?

The Yetii Rider4 votes

"Specifically AP champs".

...Yes. Because that is the only two types of champions in the game. Everyone who is not AP is AD. There are no tanks, there are no juggernauts or divers who need a mix of AD and health, there are no supports who build specific utility items while still needing cooldown reduction and some durability, and even marksmen and assassins are completely uniform. There is no difference between these AD roles, is there? Lethality, critical strikes, attack speed, health and armor, no, all AD champions have the same interests, itemization and needs. AP champions are the only ones who are affected by the rune update!

Paroe4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XMaWOOIE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-02T15:45:19.138+0000)

"Specifically AP champs".

...Yes. Because that is the only two types of champions in the game. Everyone who is not AP is AD. There are no tanks, there are no juggernauts or divers who need a mix of AD and health, there are no supports who build specific utility items while still needing cooldown reduction and some durability, and even marksmen and assassins are completely uniform. There is no difference between these AD roles, is there? Lethality, critical strikes, attack speed, health and armor, no, all AD champions have the same interests, itemization and needs. AP champions are the only ones who are affected by the rune update!

While everyone is affected... Yellow: AD/ASP Red: AD/lethality Blue: AP/support Green: Tank Other: Support

AD gets two trees that are heavily over tuned and only benefit them. Press the attack COULD be good for AP champions - if it proc'd on spell damage ticks. Almost all of the AP keystones and runes are really, really, really, REALLY bad because theyre so under tuned compared to the AD ones or have usage requirements that just dont work as well.

Further, AP is 20% stronger than AD in the runes. Do you know what this means? AP has been shafted. Mages are not intended to be carries in riots "new meta" - mages are intended to be CC bots who provide only enough damage to get enemies into the danger zone so their marksman overlord can get the kill.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Red, or Domination will be more than fine for AP champions. I intend to take it as my primary on Ahri. Electrocute, Eyeball Collection, Sudden Impact, and Ravenous Hunter. Either Precision or Sorcery for my secondary.

Mordepool2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XMaWOOIE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-02T15:45:19.138+0000)

"Specifically AP champs".

...Yes. Because that is the only two types of champions in the game. Everyone who is not AP is AD. There are no tanks, there are no juggernauts or divers who need a mix of AD and health, there are no supports who build specific utility items while still needing cooldown reduction and some durability, and even marksmen and assassins are completely uniform. There is no difference between these AD roles, is there? Lethality, critical strikes, attack speed, health and armor, no, all AD champions have the same interests, itemization and needs. AP champions are the only ones who are affected by the rune update!

Ugh. Hybrid champions!!!?????

Kloqdq3 votes

I think there is a fair amount of options all round just some runes being slightly undertuned right now. Riot is also likely to increase the total amount of runes in the future if they find some good and interesting options. So that means if we suggest new keystones or runes or if Riot comes up with something, we could likely see more.

Xion The XIV2 votes

Pft complaining about the ADC's I am waiting for that Mater Yi JG with that 5.0 attack speed. That will be fun to play against /s

DrCyanide3 votes

Who said 5.0 would be the cap? There are videos of Jinx basically firing lasers because she hit something like 98.0

Xion The XIV2 votes

I hope that is not true. If that is the Yi just becomes scarier. Just 1 second on you and it's over.

DrCyanide2 votes

https://youtu.be/UKSjZlllZYA

Not Jinx, and not as crazy high, but you get the idea.

Velzard of Koz3 votes

Isn't this the bugged one tho? It seems she broke the cap without activating the rune which was bug that got fixed. I believe If they make it work that only the rune's AS bonus can break the cap then she would lose a lot of total AS after activating the rune.

GrievousFetus2 votes

There are 2 things I don't like about the new runes. 1, picking sorcery or domination as your primary both give either AD or AP, sorcery just gives you more. Couldn't domination's focus on the early game justify a small amount of adaptive penetration rather than AD/AP? 2, unless you pick inspiration for the 50% bonus (which is just compensating for inspiration having no damage in its tree) whatever you pick as your secondary has no bearing on your combat stats. I'd like if Riot introduced an additional rune slot that is dependent on your primary+secondary tree combination.

Spoofghoul2 votes

Resolve is by far the weakest and like you pointed out ap burst don't have any choices

It's literally catering to AD specifically marksmen allover again just like every class update was more or less a class nerf + AD item & marksmen buff

What's even the point of this game anymore

Objectives became meaningless everything is paper support is more boring and one dimensional then ever if you don't play marksmen you can go suck a D*ck and not enjoy the game because you are not allowed to have agency

Why would i even play this game anymore

Miku Append2 votes

I miss Season 3....

LordGeovanni1 votes

Also mages not autoattacking is a flaw of the casual player. Why would you not want to attack and opt out of more dps you can still move after auto attacking. Many mages have built in auto attack modifiers to encourage auto attacking like Orianna and Ziggs. Only Cassiopeia has something in an arguement against that because auto attacking would lower your dps with her.

Automated Riven2 votes

Meh. If you cancel autos you should be hitting relatively similar dps depending on what time in the game and how much armor they have.

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