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(Opinion) Riot deserves praise for how they handled the Vlad rework

Blood Magicks··57 votes·7,841 views

I've not been following the EU CS that closely, but Vlad has been seeing pro play and with the right builds the results have been moderately satisfying. For example in today's SK versus Misfits match and 4G versus K1K, a video of which is due to appear soon on youtube.

I'm using this link, of course, to disprove the claim made by some disappointed mains that Vladimir would never appear in pro play after the rework.

There were further claims made: one, that good opponents were incapable of losing against rework Vlad. Yet looking at op.gg, lolalytics and counterplay.xyz data, his winrate (currently between 47 and 50%, mostly talking about midlane) rises steadily with elo, ending up completely balanced (50% plus or minus 0.2%) in diamond.

Another one is that Riot doesn't listen to Vlad mains and attempts to drive them away from the champion. I've been longing to disprove it for a while. Knowing their history with him for a while I was afraid that was the case, but I'm seeing more and more proof that the opposite is true.

TheUntitledKing and I have been the Malicious Metal of Vlad for a while. Ever since the rework was announced, we've been making threads and speaking to designers about our champ, trying to make it easier for Stashu and co to get him to work better.

Just between me and TheUntitledKing Riot has fulfilled so many of our requests when we've asked nicely and in a civilized manner. I want to thank:

  • KateyKhaos for listening to my request to adjust Vlad's laughs

  • Whoever caused Vlad to stop losing his tomatoes

  • Whoever listened to TheUntitledKing and added updated vfx to epic and legendary skins

  • Whoever added laughing to E again

  • Whoever made the veins on Bloodlord cape glow again

  • And of course Stashu for finding a reasonable way around Q. Of all the bullshit mechanics that could have been slapped to it, this is the least bullshit one; adding under-the-hood damage to E after the rework appeared on PBE; making autoattacks smoother and faster, as requested by TheUntitledKing; making Q instant; and finally taking interest in my suggestion that Vlad has the potential to be the chemo for some very terminal and obnoxious midlane cancer. I have never laughed harder at a Leblanc in my life and after the trauma inflicted by her on my other mids, I am so happy. Also for preserving and even increasing the versatility in his builds.

  • And also apologize to Stashu for all the doubt and hate he got. I think current Vlad is a healthy and fun champ and can break some of the midlane stagnation that has been going on with Zed for all these patches.

  • EDIT And some more I probably forgot to mention

And finally I'm really happy to see my main played in pro plays because I'm hoping that will lead to at least one of the following things:

  • more content and materials involving him, which is marvellous

  • a VU, oh dear he needs it, so dated and generic

  • new skins, who doesn't like new skins northern front vladimir pool turns him into a russian carpet

Thanks for reading, Riot, and I really appreciate what you are doing for Vladimir's fanbase!

Attaching my favorite fanart/wallpaper because why not.

67 Comments

Sahn Uzal26 votes

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Vladimir-Putin-Clapping.gif

BloodyTompon3 votes

Putin skin where?

Blood Magicks3 votes

Nosferatu, basically.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

It iz being forged as we speak with the blood of Russian virgins and Vodka. A lot of Vodka.

Malicious Metal1 votes

Yo, leave my Russian virgins out of this!

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Fine. But I'll keep the Vodka. All of the Vodka.

Malicious Metal1 votes

Man, don't make me choose between my Russian babe and my Vodka T_T

Sahn Uzal4 votes

Is that even a question? :^) https://maridearmas.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/it-should-be-part-of-russia.jpg http://meme-lol.com/wp-content/uploads/meme-lol/Best-MEME-2014-Vodka.jpg http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ae/ae6a9fa971c6d8c1232b6eb756796d1637dc01f74c5921be5e0b54e27fb72b8b.jpg http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/32/32931eeb7db7d8fd59d115e0d2e3f5517c2535f2c7ad9a6b72d80cc61a7468ec.jpg https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwleSiZiwOvVE96p-b6OAL8AN68Nur-nlyxDXB9c-KE7IDkw6dyg http://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/I-drank-so-much-vodka-last-night-meme-600x800.jpg https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIU21haGRQQHWbCirhryIXdcPZMBaxXDdVcU2CEiqYa5qGLg0PyA http://cdn.memestache.com/2012/6/22/1e674c2fb48a2c8b6f312414c47b25bd.jpg https://i.imgflip.com/11cow1.jpg

Malicious Metal23 votes

It's bloody time people realize that the new Vlad isn't anywhere near bad :9

YumaS2Astral1 votes

Not to do with your post but I want to ask an honest question. Which item do you think that it's the better? Spirit Visage or Abyssal Scepter? The former gives more tankyness and sustain while the latter gives more damage.

Also, do you think that spellvamp quintessences are good or Vlad is better off using other quintessences? I've tried movement speed quintessences, AP quintessences, and CDR quintessences. All of them are very good. I've yet to try spellvamp quints, though.

Malicious Metal3 votes

I'm no Vlad main but I do think SV synergies a lot better with Vlad's kit while giving him a real nice chunk of HP, which also gives him some AP.

Spellvamp quints are kinda bad, especially since Vlad's Q heal scales really well with AP and MS helps with kiting. I'd say going for AP quints is the safer bet, seeing that MS quints work way better on really sluggish champs like Mordekaiser.

macromite2 votes

not a vlad main, I wonder what you main then.

Must be lulu

Malicious Metal9 votes

Of course! I love squishies that counter any aggression from opposing Juggernauts and who look way to adorable to be allowed to live : ^)

macromite3 votes

Yup, Lulu, the most metal champion on the rift.

Game girl 14 votes

: .................................... ^)

stealthfox941 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XE3gZc5J,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-24T21:43:02.576+0000)

I'm no Vlad main but I do think SV synergies a lot better with Vlad's kit while giving him a real nice chunk of HP, which also gives him some AP.

Spellvamp quints are kinda bad, especially since Vlad's Q heal scales really well with AP and MS helps with kiting. I'd say going for AP quints is the safer bet, seeing that MS quints work way better on really sluggish champs like Mordekaiser.

I played Irelia vs Vlad top and got stomped. I thought Irelia countered Vlad but I may have played the matchup wrong or I just don't know how to fight new Vlad.

forresto1 votes

Depends how you build vlad. If you take a more heavily health-stacking approach you might consider % max hp quints, since they're basically adding that much more power to his e, and boosting his % hp heal.

Jhin UItd JFK2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XE3gZc5J,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-24T20:14:30.609+0000)

It's bloody time people realize that the new Vlad isn't anywhere near bad :9

I never understood why people said that Vlad was "bad". His laning phase is one of the best I've seen for a mage, lots of bully potential with his empowered Q and decent amount of sustain.

Of course his teamfighting was a little "meh" but the buffs to his ultimate really helped

Troll for Trump2 votes

He is pretty subpar. Or underwhelming; Basically Vel'Koz level. What they're doing with Vel'koz is almost undoing his rework completely.

Also on the other hand,you should listen to other mains, otherwise you end up with CT's Mordekaiser.

CeexSett1 votes

Did noone really understand our lord's pun? :v

Bloody? Vlad? No?...

AHeroNamedHawke11 votes

For completely removing his niche as a champion? Vlad got played plenty in competitive over the years pre rework, your two **challenger **games (not actual competitive play) mean little.

Instead of going back over his mechanics to smooth out his Q power levels and remove the "win more" heal from his ult, they simply cranked up some numbers and removed the obnoxious anti-combos that shouldn't have hit live in the first place

Now he plays exactly the same as Darius, but ranged: Threaten people with your immobile AoE zoning while building tanky, then get a big heal when low on HP. Vlad no longer has sustain, he has burst healing on champions. One of two things will happen now: A) His pick/win rates remain exactly the same/drop, rendering this entire rework a mostly pointless effort
B) His latest buffs or future buffs will be too much and he'll be nerfed into the ground (Mordekaiser)

And last but not least, the crux of the issue. Vlad was not changed for the purpose of making him more enjoyable to play, he was reworked to make him more enjoyable to play against. No, I do not like spending more time fighting my own kit than the enemy team. There's a difference between an opportunity cost and just feeling awful, which is his Q when not used on a champion, having to waste half your health bar just to farm quickly, or sitting in pool praying the enemy team won't burst you before your ult heal goes off. Old Vlad was plenty satisfying mechanically, scaled hard and had his own place as a sustain monster. Not just another AP bruiser that heals sometimes.

ForeverLaxx8 votes

As someone who actually mained Vlad back on initial release, knows more about him than probably anyone due to my extensive theorycrafting and testing back in the day, and had to stop playing him because Riot kept making him more and more punishing to play I have to say the new Vlad is objectively weaker than his pre-rework version.

I'm not going to praise a company for making my old main weaker than he already was. What you're experiencing is what happens when coordination is part of the equation combined with minute item changes. For the record, these same items changes would have brought the old Vlad up too -- his "new" kit has nothing to do with his success.

OneSmoothDude3 votes

It's interesting that you supposedly know more about Vlad than "probably anyone," yet couldn't even bring yourself to play him pre-rework. That's like saying you loved your job so much you quit showing up.

If you haven't played him recently (and going off your gut instincts based on years-old 'research'), I'd say you wouldn't be an authority on his pre-rework power levels. This also means you cannot properly compare him to post-rework, because you need to be aware of both sides of a comparison for it to be accurate.

By what metrics can you legitimately say that new Vlad is "objectively weaker" than he was before 6.9? And before answering, can any of your data be skewed by the fact that we haven't fully adjusted to NOT ONLY the new Vlad and his changes, but also the item changes?

Also if he is so obviously objectively weaker, why in your last sentence do you say that new Vlad has been "brought up" and has had success? Because if you're simply ignoring itemization changes in your analysis of new Vlad's strength, being purposefully ignorant of the game around him won't get you very far.

ForeverLaxx5 votes

You really need to pick up some comprehension. It's very clear that I know Vlad's power, all the way from release up to and including his rework. I can't call him a main anymore because of his constant and steady decline over the seasons, but that doesn't mean I never played him once he became practically unplayable. I still play Yorick and he's even worse off, I played Evelynn before, during, and after her many reworks -- I'm not adverse to playing something weak just because they're weak. I just happen to know exactly what he used to be capable of, and he doesn't even come close to that then and certainly doesn't now.

The item changes is what's letting Vlad function. If he never got a rework beyond compensation for the loss of Spell Vamp, he'd be stronger than his rework form thanks to the new items. That's the beauty of math, by the way. His numbers across the board are lower with the exception of a full charge E, that skill you'll never spring on someone competent or who isn't already locked down that also happens to do more damage to yourself than it does to others. There's a reason Vlad is in line for tweaks upwards, and it's not because he's "good".

The new Vlad isn't good. Team coordination and item adjustments are just making it look like his rework didn't gut him.

Kuroi865 votes

It's very clear that I know Vlad's power, all the way from release up to and including his rework.

Actually it's not. Your match history is empty and lolking has you with no Vlad games to your name.

I just happen to know exactly what he used to be capable of, and he doesn't even come close to that then and certainly doesn't now.

Because the main point of the rework was to cut his reliance on spellvamp and inject some much needed health into his kit so Riot could buff him up again. Lets face it, Vlad was a monster, all the nerfs he used to eat were simply aimed at holding off his late game where he could go 1v2, 1v3 or sometimes even more.

His numbers across the board are lower with the exception of a full charge E

And in case you hadn't noticed, Riot stated on multiple occasions that they were aiming low with numbers on the mage update with the expectation of tweaking the numbers over the next three to four patches.

You can't cherry pick facts here, you have to take all things into consideration.

ForeverLaxx1 votes

Oops, I dodge your attempts to "factcheck" by only playing Aram since it was introduced, as the base League game became a joke. I haven't played Summoner's Rift since Season 3.

The math doesn't lie. In case you hadn't noticed.

Malicious Metal4 votes

So you haven't played SI in over 3 seasons? And so you've completely lost any credibility you had.

ForeverLaxx2 votes

Not really, considering everything is based on numbers that are easy to compare. In addition, it's really easy to see and exploit his particular weaknesses on Aram.

But I don't expect a flip-flopper to actually be aware of facts. Nothing more needs to be said here. I know I'm right on this matter because numbers don't lie. The moment the rest of you are ready to stop basing your stance on feelings is the moment you'll realize it too.

SIayton7 votes

I think I'd have less of a problem with new Vlad if his E didn't do more damage to himself than the enemy.

Blood Magicks1 votes

See that's the beauty of new E. You have to think about when to use it. Because when you're a massive bloodbeast 10% of your HP is precisely 10% of your HP. But with AP and base damages, when you blow up in the face of any artillery mage or adc, it's far more than 10% of THEIR hp. For a fed Vlad it's closer to 50%. On the other hand the safer option when fighting a huge tank is to only Q them.

Decision making, bruh.

Goosetard6 votes

Good to see some good feedback about the MYMU, which overall I think went pretty well.

It's good because:

  • Positivity lifts everyone's spirits
  • It's nice for the designers to hear good feedback
  • Tempering criticism with positive feedback is a good way to make sure criticism is received better

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

JESUSSAYSNO6 votes

no. All aspects that made him my main have been removed and the only thing that's come out of this rework is a hole in my champ roster. Opponents need to outplay themselves or you need to put in far more effort than needed on other champions. Effort vs reward is far too skewed in your opponents favor and he is completely unfun to play, and far too easy to play against.

Cynika5 votes

If only all of your posts in vlad threads were like this, instead of your typical (and I quote) "git gud" arguments

Over Innsmouth5 votes

Whoever listened to TheUntitledKing and added updated vfx to epic and legendary skins

http://isharedifferent.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/do-this-amd-senpai-will-notice-you2.jpg

In all seriousness, it really feels like the Vlad update was something partially made from a good amount of back and forth between Riot and the players. A big thank you from me and many others to Riot for all they've done. New Vlad has invigorated my love for the game like no other rework or release has done so.

Blood Magicks3 votes

New Vlad has invigorated my love for the game like no other rework or release has done so.

So much this! Our boy is spreading love and joy like he is meant to!

http://i.imgur.com/8GzFsER.png

Arakadia4 votes

By love do you mean whats inside ones heart? And in that case yes, he is spreading it everywhere.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

ew Yosuke

option paralysis5 votes

It's true though. I don't play him like that pussy tank shit, but that doesn't mean other people won't build tank. The games in challenger series were spirit visage with warmogs and he was 7/0... so how is that more fun to play against than the old Vlad ? On old Vlad everybody at least built AP. Don't see a point in making a counterplay to his Q so it's shit if it's not CR and then making his E scale with HP so everybody can build tank to do dmg. Also, at the same time make it so you can't clear big waves without losing 50% hp. It's counterproductive. They could've just make fixed HP costs and that you can clear waves like before but with no HP scaling. And there you go, no toxic build tank to do dmg champions.

Serika Zero5 votes

KateyKhaos for listening to my request to adjust Vlad's laughs

Because that matters a lot.

Whoever caused Vlad to stop losing his tomatoes

Again, something totally unrelated to game health

Whoever listened to TheUntitledKing and added updated vfx to epic and legendary skins

I'm starting to think all your guys suggestions are minor fashion stuff that's pretty much irrelevant

Whoever added laughing to E again

I'm definitely right on this

Whoever made the veins on Bloodlord cape glow again

Gimme a break already, do you have at least a valid point?

And of course Stashu for finding a reasonable way around Q.

Umm ok? finally something related to the actual game play.

And also apologize to Stashu for all the doubt and hate he got.

I was thinking this was a list of good things that happened with vlad rework. Looks like I'm reading everything wrong. And both Lulu and Lissandra stomp assassins, such as LeBlank in lane. We had an answer for them for a long time. You just refused to play em ;) And seriously, most of your post is: "I want to thank my designed for putting a white button on my shirt, and then black ones under the white one. Now it looks dope, you amazing".

Bears eat people5 votes

[quote]Another one is that Riot doesn't listen to Vlad mains and attempts to drive them away from the champion[/quote]

That's why we are leaving League of Legends. Unwanted reworks and every rework is like "lol we are releasing new champion but with the name of old one"

Blood Magicks2 votes

But they do listen when you ask politely, speak to the right people at the right times and are all around a loyal boards member.

Malicious Metal2 votes

Pretty much.

Kuroi864 votes

One last thing. The MS on Crimson Rush needs to scale.

Vistha Kai3 votes

I have yet to lane aganist a Vlad who doesn't feed his minds out aganist me.

But then, that might just be me, who doesn't let Vlad even CS without him dying aganist any champion I play.

Cynika5 votes

yea whenever i go against vlad it's wayyyy too easy to out play him and win lane. whenever i play vlad i only win lane when the opponent is objectively terrible (not even trying to move out of e, running at me to trade when CR is coming up).

come team fight phase vlad is too unreliable. its very easy to get kited out/locked down/etc, CR is almost never up when you need it. and not to forget what your team gives up when you pick vlad, a real frontliner with cc vs a psuedo tank with easily dodgeable damage.

option paralysis3 votes

I knew I saw better particles on blood lord skin for his blood ball and armor! The Q animation still kinda looks small, though. Still can't get over not clearing waves like before too.. Also, where does it say the AA's are smoother and faster ?

Btw, hit me up with some more vlad fan art, that one is amazing.. here's couple of good ones. 1 2

Blood Magicks1 votes

here's my imagedump, buddy, 100+ images:

One or two of these are NSFW though: http://imgur.com/a/f4i5N

LatetotheRace3 votes

I'd say about half a dozen are questionable, but the item 3145 is too fantastic to be nsfw. Share that with everyone.

Blood Magicks1 votes

The build portrayed on it is not valid anymore [zombie-nunu-bummed]

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