I was playing Kog and shooting at a Mundo with thornmail. I never even noticed he had it until the game was over and saw it in his build. Maybe it is because I heal so fast but still. People say it hurts on Rammus. Who knows. I know they want this season to be tilted towards ADCs so I guess Riot knows its SHIT. Next season they will buff it when they are done with the adc season.
Shrek Luigi3 votesThornmail is a bit underwhelming these days, to say the least. That being said, Kog is one of those Champs that easily stomps champions that stack HP and, since the return-damage from thornmail doesn't apply to OnHit damage, Thornmail really isn't as appropriate of a pick as Frozen Heart + Randuins are for reducing Kogs AA speed. In the rock-paper-scissors of league, sustained damage beats tanks, tanks beat burst, and burst beats sustained damage (in the most rudimentary sense).
Malph and Rammus aren't the only ones who can make use of it, but it's really only useful if the enemy team is decked with AA-centric Champs.
Earl Eulrich2 votesevery season so far revolved around dealing with the adc in one way or another (when they are "weak" tanks deal with them, when they are (too) strong assassins deal with them....), there has never been a season without ADCs.
PDE5 Inhibitors2 votesAnd what season did we have without supports?
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X9RPerb7,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T02:15:29.430+0000)
And what season did we have without supports?
supports are really mostly there to hold hands with the adc.
PDE5 Inhibitors2 votesSo no season? Supports OP and rito's favorite confirmed.
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X9RPerb7,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T02:17:06.886+0000)
So no season? Supports OP and rito's favorite confirmed.
adc are mandatory. and they make supports mandatory. you need that 1 type of champion on your team whos almost entirely item dependent. ofc youre pairing him up with someone whos almost not item dependent at all, so both are effective when 1 guy gets all the farm. at the same time the most powerful guy on the team has some additional protection.
bottom lane supports often arent even actual support champions. theyre tanks, mages and classic supports (soraka, janna, karma etc.). basically whatever has a lot of utility.
so actually, no. supports were never mandatory. just one guy to protect the adc through the lane phase was. technically there were a lot of phases where what we call "0 cs bottom lane support" was a tank or mage and actual classic support champions werent played at all.
Catastrop1 votesWith 
taking over the role, it's hardly support anymore.
Critmaster Garen1 votesWith
taking over the role, it's hardly support anymore.
well, to be fair lux was designed to be able to either support or carry.
Catastrop1 votesYeah, I took her out because of that. Although it still gets me salty when all I see these days are "Support" Lux's or just "Supports" in general. I just thank god they overshadow the real terrors like 
and 
Occams Raiser1 votesthese two aren't taking over. both get bashed by real supports or die off after the laning phase unless the other team is squishy as well. brand more so cause he lacks the team stun. When I see brand bot I say EZGG. Win for us.
Catastrop1 votesI never said they were dominating, I just said they were taking over. As in, out of every 10 games, a "Support" is going to be in at least 6-7 of them.
Sir Yamazuki3 votes[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X9RPerb7,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T02:15:29.430+0000)
And what season did we have without supports?
The support role isn't dominated by supports 100% of the time, there have been times where they were replaced by mages in the bot lane, and then you have tanks that weren't originally designed to go bot. Mean while the other bot lane position is dominated purely by ranged adcs 100% of the time other than the brief moment where Morde went there.
PDE5 Inhibitors1 votesMaybe at high Elo, but I've seen plenty of Xin and Yasuo bot lanes.
Occams Raiser1 votesthey usually die to real bot laners. But you know what they say, anything goes in bronze.
Earl Eulrich2 votesa mistake often done...you could also ask what season didn´t have a jungler.
support is a role, marksmen is a class that is so powerfull that it has become a role of it´s own.
support can be filled by anything that works low-economy: mages (e.g. morg, but also brand recently), tanks (e.g. Leona, but also trundle and everys now and then even j4), utility-focused champions (e.g lulu or soraka). AD-Carry as a role originally meant "champion that carries (=deals the dmg for the team) with AD (=physical dmg)", so in an ideal world this role could be fullfilled by figthers, melee-carries and marksmen...but soon it had been shown that marksmen are vastly superior to everyone else in dealing physical dmg, thus they became the role.
Zane Zephyr2 votesThornmail isn't as useful unless youre stacking armor
Critmaster Garen3 votes[{quoted}](name=Zane Zephyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X9RPerb7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-09T01:37:11.535+0000)
Thornmail isn't as useful unless youre stacking armor
thats exactly the problem. they made it stupidly binary.
it only really does anything now if you have a ridiculous armor steroid. malphite, rammus, maybe taric. it starts getting noticable at about 400 to 500 armor. if you can get to 700 armor with malphite and a thornmail, adc start killing themselves on it unless they have mercurial.
last season after the change i managed to get 780 armor on malphite total. with 10% damage reduction from tabi, 10% crit damage reduction from randuins, and another 10% crit damage reduction from masteries.
this was mainly possible due to adaptive armor, and 10% bonus resistances from masteries. so even with a pure armor build i had enough mr to survive mages.
that was about the point i could 1v1 vayne.... before her buff.
well, most of the masteries that made thornmail strong, even on malphite are also gone or nerfed now.
so basically on every normal tank or fighter who gets up to 250 to 300 armor, thornmail is pretty much entirely useless.
AL0001 votesno... actually not accurate information
its useful item at early game... when adc buys more powerful items... and thormail is useless BECAUSE burst/critical hit >>>>>>>>>> thormail's dps...
same concept if you play against fiz/teemo(burst type) with your trundle or olaf (dps type)...
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesi once bought like 350 armor and it didn't do shit to the enemy jinx. she didn't lose any health at all. its only good against a champion like ezreal that usually doesn't build lifesteal. or any adc that doesn't build lifesteal as much. which i dont know any outside ezreal sometimes
Supreme Senpai691 votesADCs shouldn't kill themselves on it. It's meant to do a little bit of extra damage on top of your abilities and the rest of the team's when the enemy focuses you, because you are the tank, because only tanks should be building thornmail.
It does need a buff, but more because the finishing cost is 1250. They could easily add more armor into its stats and more cloths or whatever into its build recipe while keeping the total cost the same.
Occams Raiser2 votesagreed