We should introduce transforming support items

chipndip1·Feb 18, 2017·103 votes·3,820 views

Similar to how tear items transform when you spend mana, we should have support items that transform or upgrade for doing things like shielding damage, taking damage for allies, following up ally damage, healing allies, and so on. It'd be a great way to give support players better items without tying it to gold. It'd also deter random mid laners from buying their items, so that we can have enchanter items with more ap on them, seeing how the stronger variant of the item would be locked behind healing and shielding allies, which most mid lane mages don't even do.

Otherwise, we'll continue to see enchanter supports bring pillows to bat fights and see tank supports that go down like Glass Joe.

51 Comments

5050BSFeb 18, 20179 votes

I would love to see Support items that are like Jungle Items. You need summoner 3 or summoner 7 to build them, give utility support activates and stats.

JVP15Feb 19, 201716 votes

Leona : But.. but.. muh summoner 14 !

Papa AndreiFeb 19, 20171 votes

Allows supports to buy an item that accentuates healing, tanking, cc, or damage of allies.

TheSingularityFeb 19, 20176 votes

go ignite exhaust?

IcyPepperFeb 19, 20175 votes

I dunno. Smite is necessary for jungling whatsoever. Supports are allowed a tad more versatility in what summoner spell they choose. Locking jungle items to smite was necessary to prevent laning abuse, whereas locking support items to summoner spells... would be kind of pointless, unless the item was overtuned enough to be viable for solo lanes in which case it would probably be too strong on the supports anyway.

4567Feb 19, 20171 votes

I've seen a top lane teemo go smite just for the %20 damage reduction of warrior + ninja tabi and do really well. So it's not working out too well.

4567Feb 19, 20171 votes

There's also the added bonus of being able to counter jungle as a laner

IcyPepperFeb 19, 20172 votes

Er, that's anecdotal, though.

What the problem used to be was ALL TANKY top laners taking smite top lane to counter jungle and abuse laning items. And fucking Ezreal with every on-hit jungle item. This is more than "that one guy in one game," there was a time that was legitimately the top lane meta.

One Teemo in one game does not mean "it's not working out well." There is no statistic that indicates Teemo using warrior+ninja tabi is anything more than a niche strategy barely anyone uses. The locking-the-item-to-smite was to counter a prevailing, widespread abuse meta, not to keep the occasional player from trying out smite+teleport/flash and using the occasional niche strategy.

If we're going to talk gameplay balance, you're going to need more than "that one game."

5050BSFeb 22, 20171 votes

What I would really like to see is items locked to all the summoner spells.

You have Ignite Items, Cleanse Items, Heal, TP, Flash, Barrier ect.

Would really add some uniqueness to builds

IcyPepperFeb 22, 20171 votes

So long as there's a purpose, I'd say.

Items you can only buy because of the spell would be limiters, whereas items that modify the spells would certainly be interesting

Imagine, for instance, there was a support item that made ignite ally-only and gave them a heal-over-time! You could have lane pressure early game as Leona, and transition to more defensive style in the mid-game!

RisenDarkKnightFeb 19, 20171 votes

But summoner 7 is the ADC or sometimes Mid laner summoner, supports practically never take it. And some mid laners (or other roles take exhaust). It's not like smite where the summoner is pretty much hard tied to jungle.

Death by GlamourFeb 19, 20171 votes

Maybe lock it to certain masteries?

ClementineFeb 19, 20176 votes

I'd love this! Like Athene's transforms after it heals for so much, Ardent after so much life is drained, Locket after so much damage is blocked, etc etc

chipndip1Feb 19, 20179 votes

Eh, not for all items, though. Locket, for example, is plenty strong on its own at a base level (and needs some sort of addressing honestly. The thing can block like 3k damage in a game).

Ariel the CruelFeb 19, 20171 votes

The thing can block like 3k damage in a game).

Don't worry, the end of game stats only track life loss. So far as I can tell, the shields do nothing and the item needs buffs! XD

(I know it's on the item during game.)

ClementineFeb 19, 20174 votes

Locket blocks a lot more than 3k damage in a game. I blocked 3k damage in a single fight lol. I think it's for where it is, a decent counter against AoE burst

FantasySniperFeb 19, 20171 votes

It would be simple to nerf locket, and then give the boost to previous levels after the transformation.

Umbral RegentFeb 18, 20175 votes

I'm actually pretty interested in this idea. Just as a sort of rough idea for a Tank Support item, let's say an upgrade from Targon's Brace - possibly built out of Jaurim's Fist or Catalyst of Aeons, just to drive home the scaling nature of the item. Let's call it "Celestial Bastion" for now, with two states - base, and awakened.

Celestial Bastion Base - Has a Unique Active that allows you to drop a moderately low-cooldown, but also relatively small shield on an allied Champion. Damage absorbed by this shield increases your health and slightly increases your other stat - Attack Damage if Jaurim's Fist is the component, or Mana if Catalyst of Aeons is. And, let's say, after the equivalent of 10-12 Shields are broken, maybe more, give or take, it upgrades to the Awakened state.

Celestial Bastion Awakened - Has some moderate-high defensive stats, comparable to a maxed out Rod of Ages, and its Unique Active now also shields the caster (you) alongside your target. The shield is slightly more substantial, and the cooldown is just slightly increased from the base form.

I think it'd be pretty cool to see what Riot could do with this idea - the upgrading Support items thing, not quite my Celestial Bastion thing, but still.

chipndip1Feb 18, 20171 votes

It'd solve a lot of issues, that's for sure.

LankPantsFeb 19, 20173 votes

When I first read this it seemed a bit gimmicky and unneeded, but after thinking about it for a while this as well as items that trigger on heals (similar to how Athene's works) would be a great way of gating items to be more for supports.

I don't think it would be a great idea to have a mass of transforming items, but I could see a 2 item line of these being very good for the game. I'd like to see a more AP stat heavy item which supports like Sona, Lulu and Karma would be drawn to as well as a more utility focused item which Janna, Soraka and Nami would prefer. Since this item is fairly restrictive requiring a heal or shield on your kit to be effective there'd be a fairly low risk of mages picking it up, only a couple could stack it and it would be a slow process.

To start with I'd look at a basic Tear like item

Philosopher's Stone + +90g (650 total) Stats: 20 AP, +25% mana regen

Unique passive: Golden Heart This item builds stacks of pure gold, up to a cap of 100(?). Each stack grants 0.25% mana regen. Shielding 10 damage for an ally grants 1 stack of pure gold Healing 20 HP for an ally grants 1 stack of pure gold At 100 stacks transforms into a Golden Philosopher's Stone

This item would have 2 upgrades, the first aimed more at AP supports, being a more aggressive tool to help a Sona or Lulu stay relevant in terms of damage

Diplomacy Golden Philosopher's Stone + + 250g (2100 total) 70 AP, 50% mana regen

Unique Passive, Gunboat: After healing or shielding an ally gain 15% increased ability power for 3 seconds, if your ally is bellow 20% HP when you gain this the benefit is doubled. AP is gained after healing or shielding and will not effect the heal or shield.

Unique Active, Wind Bolt: Send a shot out in a line dealing 150-200 (based off level) +25% AP damage to the first target hit. This target will take 15% increased damage from your allies and deal 15% reduced damage to you and your allies for 4 seconds. 40 second CD

In addition to this there should also be a more Soraka/Janna style item aimed at more raw supporting rather than trying to have relevant damage

Eleisa's Miracle Golden Philosopher's Stone + + + 250g (2100 total) Stats: 25 AP, +75% mana regen, +200 HP +10% CDR +10% shield+heal power

Unique Passive, Aid: Your healing and shielding spells leave a lingering healing effect, healing both you and your ally for 10+levelx3 HP over 3 seconds, this effect will not stack. While this heal is in effect both you and your ally have +15 MS.

Unique Active, Miracle Chanel and tether yourself to an ally, granting them a persistent heal for 20% of their missing HP per second. As long as the channel and tether remain unbroken and your ally is alive you can continue healing them. Tether range 700 (visible to both you and linked ally) 120 second CD on end of effect.

I'm not sure about the balance on these items, it's probably abysmal TBH. But the idea was more just to show directions this could potentially go in. The defensive heal/shield space at this point is also incredibly crowded, coming up with something unique was not easy at all.

woodvsmurphFeb 19, 20173 votes

item 2049 : after placing 20 wards, this item recharges at the rate of lvl 9 yellow trinket (so you don't have to recall so much to recharge it.

They honestly have done a ton of good changes to support items in the past year or so though. Gp 5/10, sightstone, all the new healer support items: item 3504 item 3174 item 3107 and a few other decent support-ish items: item 3060 item 3190 item 3050 item 3512 item 3109

h5LYF41LamFeb 19, 20172 votes

people dont play sheild/heal supports because they suck. No matter what riot gives them, item 3107 item 3190 . as long as their gameplay is boring Janna . they will just be abused by tryhards. Triggerd mains inc

chipndip1Feb 19, 20171 votes

That's for a different thread. I got tired of complaining. I wanted to make a more positive thread for once.

Blue Moon WolfFeb 19, 20172 votes

Meddler: One idea we've been kicking around a lot recently is that we should potentially be giving support power in non gold means more. As a position support has some pretty different gameplay. At present it also earns noticeably less gold than other positions, resulting in reduced feelings of agency. Something we're interested in exploring at some point though is giving alternate forms of power, rather than increased gold (other ways to earn specific stats or unique items?).

Sounds like they already are kicking around that idea.

chipndip1Feb 19, 20173 votes

It's actually why I made this thread in the first place. I wanted to show support for the idea because it's actually smart. We can retool some of the lousier items in the game to work with it, as well as make a few new ones.

58697132DEL1Feb 19, 20172 votes

this would be great. Frost Queen could morph into it's ghost thingy after X damage is dealt to enemies. Face would be from taking damage/shielding The gold thingy (look im sorry i dont play much support and im too lazy to google okay? XD) could be for healing.

Plus no one really buys the sightstone fusion versions anyways. Heres an idea tho: revisit the various sightstone ideas. Like ruby reduces active items, gold could offer a multiplier on assist gold (helping the currency problem supports facxe since they (shouldnt) kill and dont farm), an emerald boosts your healing and/or duration of enchant effects, hell those 3 options alone would make me get a sightstone asap, ESPECIALLY SINCE I DONT HAVE TO BLOW GOLD ON MY ITEM CAUSE IT EVOLVES BY JUST PLAYING RIGHT!

I think we got somethign here guys :D

ModCaptainMårvelousFeb 19, 20172 votes

I still miss Murksphere. A support item designed around shielding was the shit.

MaeDoSanFeb 18, 20171 votes

Any specific ideas ?

chipndip1Feb 18, 20172 votes

Main one I thought of would be Athene's. Athene's is built to deal damage, then tack on bonus sustain to your sustain moves. However, it doesn't give much ap to deal damage with, it has some random mr, but not enough to put much of a dent in the damage you take, and "meh" mana regen. An item like this one, after filling and using the cup enough, could transform into an item with more ap/mr/regen on it.

Or perhaps Knight's Vow could be improved by, after absorbing a set amount of damage, giving it bonus stats or sweetening the damage transfer passive. Like, on top of tanking 12% of the damage someone takes, you also straight reduce the damage they take by an extra 6% as well. 240 damage absorbed in about 2k damage taken sounds miserable, but an extra 120 of that reduced makes Knight's Vow a good bit better for protecting V.I.P. targets, and gating behind tanking said damage means it encourages buying it sooner, instead of the usual Locket/Redemption rush.

Those were the two ideas I had.

MaeDoSanFeb 18, 20171 votes

Ya knights vow isn't that great

HeroquetFeb 19, 20171 votes

Problem of athene is that almost only Sona, Karma, Ivern use it well. Maybe Lulu and Nami too. They're the only champs i can think of that deal enough damage to charge it well, and got a spammy enough heal / shield to use the charges. Morg could but she doesn't spam her shield so it's a one-shot usage. Taric could because his passive is a lot of damage, but the only useful stat for him is MR.

They need to change the passive to generate charges in another way, or to generate more charges, so Janna / Soraka could grab it and play in a more risky and rewarding way. Weave attacks in the bullshitty teamfights where your low-ass autoattacks are utterly useless, heal more if you don't explode in the process.

chipndip1Feb 19, 20171 votes

Janna/Soraka have Ardent Censor. They're naturally very defensive enchanters so it's fine if they don't do well with a very offense-prone item. What they REALLY need to do is to make more support items with ap on them with different effects, so as to have more ap to fill the item with to begin with. As it stands, using Sona, I need at least item 2301 item 3504 item 3174 to fill the item rather well on a Powerchord Q...and that's a champ where all her damage dealing is almost entirely front-loaded into one type of scenario on one button. For others, it's probably a good bit harder, and some enchanters probably don't want to bother outright, which is fine. However, we do need more ap on enchanter items so they have other options.

Still, that's a different conversation for a different thread.

HeroquetFeb 20, 20171 votes

Soraka has to land Q's and her aoe silence if she wants to use her full kit in a tf. Janna has to hit stuff with CC (3 spells). If athene could charge something like 20-30% of it's maximum everytime the user applies debuffs / cc on an ennemy, they could use it.

Having athene, a support item for non major damage dealing champ's, charging on damage only is... unintuitive design.

chipndip1Feb 20, 20171 votes

They aren't oriented around damage dealing. Athene's is.

The issue stems from there not being much ap in the role, more than it's a lack of supports that would want to fill Athene's through damage dealing. There are some, but how is that a feasible option when they have nothing to build to make that job easier?

5000000000000000Feb 19, 20171 votes

Stacking from amount of XP gained by nearby allies (so it only works near allies) could be one way to deter midlaners from buying the item.

ParoeFeb 19, 20171 votes

item 2303 : After taking 5000 damage, transforms into "Eye of the cyclops"; Eye of the cyclops: +1000HP +20% damage reduction -40% damage dealt to enemy champions +10%CDR +5g/10 Unique passive: Warmogs heart Unique active: Warding

item 2302 : After obtaining 1500g through favor, transforms into "Eye of the desert" Eye of the desert: +300HP +300 mana +200% HP regen +200% mana regen +10% CDR +5g/10 Unique passive: favor: Being near an enemy who dies recovers 5% of you and the killers max health. When an enemy champion dies, all allies within range recover 5% max health. Unique active: warding

item 2301 : After dealing 5000 damage, transforms into "Eye of the darkin" Eye of the darkin: +300 HP +10% CDR +80AP +200% mana regen +5g/10 Unique passive: Tribute: Damaging an enemy champion or structure grants a charge. At 3 charges, the next ability deals an additional 35% damage Unique active: Warding

item 3174 : After healing 5000 health, transforms into "ND3s swear jar" ND3s swear jar: +80AP +40MR +20% CDR +200% mana regen Unique passive: Harmonize: Grants 200% HP and mana regen. As mana or health is reduced, the regen will decrease or increase according to the appropriate resource. Unique passive: Blood heals: 20% of damage dealt is stored as blood, up to 1000. Unique active: Blood for the blood throne: Consumes the stored blood to heal a target allied champion.

chipndip1Feb 19, 20173 votes

Uh...for warding items, I was thinking that after placing enough wards on the map/clearing enough wards (with a cd after placing X amount of them so people aren't chunking them around), possible gains could be...significantly lower than that? Also, the main bonus would be having more wards on them, rather than ONE THOUSAND HP...

Pacattack25Feb 19, 20171 votes

While I like the ideas the issue here is due to many different kinds of support you get various differnt issues for example

Zilean - if he's doing his job right - he MIGHT get to the Eye of the darkin (see above) but ... this is still going to be a hard one for him to get to - and ND3s swear jar (see above post) but again... hard for him to get too... or

Zyra - again we have an issue of she MIGHT be able to get to the swear jar... but wouldn't be able to support really with the change or

Thresh - who isn't super tanky till later on in the game...

You would control who is and isn't a support by whatever item they can upgrade easily ... and which ones they can't...

Along with summoner spell - what happens when the ADC takes summoner 3 - most of them either have themselves take it or summoner 7 ... can anyone say ziggs as ADC?

chipndip1Feb 19, 20172 votes

Those sightstone thingies aren't my ideas. Only Knight's Vow and Athene's are things I've considered viable options for this and it's not like I crunched out numbers. Basically a way to get a solid 500 HP/+Armor item for supports and a solid 80 AP item as well.

ZeranaFeb 19, 20171 votes

Member me?

Eleisa's Miracle: +10 health regeneration +15 mana regeneration. Passive: UNIQUE – AID: Your Summoner Heal.png Heal, Clarity.png Clarity and Clairvoyance.png Clairvoyance cooldowns are reduced by 25%. Passive: UNIQUE – ELEISA'S BLESSING: If you gain 3 levels with this item, you gain all the effects permanently and this item is consumed. RECIPE: Philosopher's Stone item.png Philosopher's Stone + Gold 400 = Gold 1100.

It's a good idea if the passive is worth it.

FakeGravityFeb 19, 20171 votes

a bit of a problem to balance tho, does shield and heals proc it? then sona can get it twice with a W? only works on shields if taken damage? it punish karma shield for the movement speed, dosent work on slows and CC to keep malzahar away from it? then leona and thresh get the short end, if does then annie and morgana get too strong

chipndip1Feb 19, 20171 votes

Not every support needs to use every item. That's why you make items that tank supports want while making OTHER items that squishy ones want.

If you want Annie/Morg to keep away from a cc-related support item, make it a tank item.

HzVeeFeb 19, 20171 votes

As someone usually fills the support role in games, I like the idea of transforming support items. I'll place my idea with item 3070 as the base

item 3070 + item 3114 + 600 g = 2150 g item +250 Mana +75% Mana Regen +10% CDR

Unique Passive: Awe - refunds 20% Mana spent, grants x% healing and shielding bonus, scales with maximum mana Unique Passive: Mana Charge - grants +6 Mana per mana expenditure, transforms at +750 Mana (up to 2 times in 8 seconds)

Transformed item: +1000 Mana +125% Mana Regen +10% CDR Unique Passive: Awe - refunds 20% Mana spent, grants x% healing and shielding bonus, scales with maximum mana Unique Passive: Overflow - Your healing skills heals for x HP in a small area around the primary target.

I'm not sure about tank item since they probably need less mana.

item 3070 + item 3067 + item 1006 + 500 g = 2200 g item

+250 Mana +250 Health +10% CDR +50% Health regeneration

Unique Passive: Awe - restore 10% health lost from an attack or ability in the next 3 seconds, gains extra armor and MR (scales with maximum health) Unique Passive: Health Charge - grants +5 Health each time the champion is damaged, transforms at +1000 Health (up to 3 times in 10 seconds)

Transformed item: +250 Mana +1000 Health +10% CDR +50% Health regeneration

Unique Passive: Awe - restore 15% health lost from an attack or ability in the next 4 seconds, gains extra armor and MR (scales with maximum health) Unique Active: Battle roar - Taunt enemies within 300 range and terrify enemies within 301-700 range (60s cooldown) (not sure what to give here)

chipndip1Feb 19, 20171 votes

First item seems like a good Janna/Soraka-style item (it'd have to be shields or heals, though), but the second item seems more like a general top lane tank item. Especially with an extra 1k health added to your champ for it.

HzVeeFeb 20, 20171 votes

yeah, the number is too high for the cost and it looks like a generic tank item. I don't play tanks that much, so I can't really think how a top lane tank and support tank can be differentiated since I saw few top lane tanks build knight's vow or locket.

Feed DaddyFeb 20, 20171 votes

It looks like a generic tank item but boy is it a good Ryze Kassadin item

Automated RivenFeb 20, 20171 votes

as much as the first item looks good. I really dont want a meta where 3 champs every game buy tear and try to stack it in just under 20 minutes. ... altho It might beat the clown fiesta bot we have now

Feed DaddyFeb 20, 20171 votes

Lets call it Eleisa's Miracle

chipndip1Feb 20, 20171 votes

To be fair: That item was consumed after 3 levels, not changed like a tear item.

Nickfer2510Feb 20, 20171 votes

A balanced way for the items to transform is after they have earned a certain amount of gold with their passives, that way they get rewarded for last-hitting minions for adcs to give them health/poking without killing minions/playing passively and only engage when neccesary.