Zed can deal over 50% of my hp at lvl 3

Caítlyn·Jun 23, 2016·5 votes·1,030 views

with only 1 combo at long range.

Meanwhile Riot wants to nerf Kindred so hard the new term for overnerfing will be “Kindred'd”. Because her early game is “oppressive”??

28 Comments

67chromeJun 23, 20163 votes

Zed can deal over 50% of my hp at lvl 3 with only 1 combo at long range.

Average QWER base for champions is ~1000 @18. Average HP base for champions is ~2000 @18.

For the majority of a game, the base damage on a champion's burst is capable of taking out 50% of your base HP. What you're stating is extremely mundane and ordinary.

You're also setting yourself up for a thwacking if you keep the assumption it's not. I've gotten tons of kills with half-tank Sona and full-tank Leona off of cocky squishies that didn't expect the 50%-->0% burst.

And Zed isn't a support building supportive stuff, he's an assassin with the near-exclusive goal of taking all his opponents from 100%-->0%, and will usually have runes/masteries/itemization set up to do exactly that.

CaítlynJun 23, 20161 votes

You missed the point. Zed can do this very safely and very easily unlike other champs that put themselves in danger.

But Riot nerfs Kindred into oblivion because her early game is strong or some bs like that.

67chromeJun 23, 20161 votes

You missed the point. Zed can do this very safely and very easily unlike other champs that put themselves in danger.

Compared to who?

Mid-lane Tryndamere?

Mid is predominantly the lane of mages, mages tend to have more range than any other class, and range provides a ton of safety.

But Riot nerfs Kindred into oblivion because her early game is strong or some bs like that.

Kindered really has nothing to do with Zed's capacity to deal mediocre levels of damage or have average levels of safety compared to a typical mid-lane pick.

AlwaysByMySideJun 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

You missed the point. Zed can do this very safely and very easily unlike other champs that put themselves in danger.

But Riot nerfs Kindred into oblivion because her early game is strong or some bs like that.

Mages don't put themselves in danger.

nymtheravenJun 23, 20162 votes

Exactly.

nymtheravenJun 23, 20162 votes

Exactly. Assassins are supposed to be bursty.

JamesTheMage17Jun 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Average QWER base for champions is ~1000 @18. Average HP base for champions is ~2000 @18.

For the majority of a game, the base damage on a champion's burst is capable of taking out 50% of your base HP. What you're stating is extremely mundane and ordinary.

You're also setting yourself up for a thwacking if you keep the assumption it's not. I've gotten tons of kills with half-tank Sona and full-tank Leona off of cocky squishies that didn't expect the 50%-->0% burst.

And Zed isn't a support building supportive stuff, he's an assassin with the near-exclusive goal of taking all his opponents from 100%-->0%, and will usually have runes/masteries/itemization set up to do exactly that.

This thread is talking about lvl 3 damage. I hardly think people have 2k health at level 3. Champions tend to do much weaker damage at early levels to their enemy (health-wise), and 50%-health combos where you can't even be counter attacked in it is unfair to the enemy.

67chromeJun 23, 20161 votes

This thread is talking about lvl 3 damage. I hardly think people have 2k health at level 3.

Spell bases and base HP tend to scale at the same time though, so what's true @18 generally applies down to level 6. If a champion is known for solid damage and has a no-damage skill or 1 point wonder damage skill they can also stay pretty consistent sub-6, which is the case for champions like Kha'Zix, Riven, and Rengar: all champions within the same general archetype as Zed.

With damage-heavy glass-cannons it's also worth considering the rune, mastery, and starting item choices will likely all be geared towards amping damage even higher: and when you're only targeting foes with 670 HP, those 10 AD here/10 AD there/40 damage from Thunderlord's bonuses can add up pretty fast.

Other factors like minions and auto-attacks can also add a ton of weight to trades at level 3, and I wouldn't put it past OP to have smacked Zed with an AA while standing in the middle of Zed's minion wave.

Taking out 50% of someone's HP with a full combo isn't difficult is all I'm saying.

AlwaysByMySideJun 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

with only 1 combo at long range.

Meanwhile Riot wants to nerf Kindred so hard the new term for overnerfing will be “Kindred'd”. Because her early game is “oppressive”??

Are you truly delusional enough to deny Kindred's dominating presence in the game compared to Zed?

CaítlynJun 23, 20162 votes

When Riot nerfs ADCs they destroy them into uselessness. When was the last time you saw Kalista? This next round of nerfs will create a new “Kindred tier” beneath trash tier.

Meanwhile Zed HASN'T HAD REAL NERFS FOR LITERALLY YEARS.

Mecha MaIphiteJun 23, 20161 votes

zed being cancerous isn't justification for kindred being slightly less cancerous

AlwaysByMySideJun 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

When Riot nerfs ADCs they destroy them into uselessness. When was the last time you saw Kalista? This next round of nerfs will create a new “Kindred tier” beneath trash tier.

Meanwhile Zed HASN'T HAD REAL NERFS FOR LITERALLY YEARS.

Kalista's design is less healthy than Zed's. Furthermore, she is still played in high elo.

He's been knocked down to a 47% win rate after his most recent nerfs. Whine more.

CaítlynJun 23, 20161 votes

Infinite manaless poke is inherently “unhealthy” design. He never has to back for anything. And his itemization right now is ridiculously op.

Kalista requires a lot of skill and items. An unskilled Kalista will deal approximately zero damage.

nymtheravenJun 23, 20162 votes

Yeah they nerf the popular champions. Im starting to think its because they are trying to make unpopular champs more appealing so people buy them. Janna is THE poster child for over nerfing. I get excited everytime someone picks her now days cause I know Ill spank her. Yeah the zed buffs are excessive, and kindred has a hard time landing kills now that his slow is so weak. Meanwhile less popular champs are super OP. Any champ that gets too popular gets the nerf!

blfUvZ8YbuJun 23, 20161 votes

Zed's win rate is 46%.Adc's win rate is 53%.

Wrong thread.

ÇhåryzårdJun 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akatsuki Deidara,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wt6NLZE9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-06-23T01:02:42.348+0000)

Zed's win rate is 46%.Adc's win rate is 53%.

Wrong thread.

Except take into account his ban rate is high so he isn't played as much and therefore appears to have a lower winrate.

blfUvZ8YbuJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Except take into account his ban rate is high so he isn't played as much and therefore appears to have a lower winrate.

You're right but people don't like Zed.After QSS nerf Zed's ban rate increased because of Zed hate.

ÇhåryzårdJun 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akatsuki Deidara,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wt6NLZE9,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-23T02:02:58.772+0000)

You're right but people don't like Zed.After QSS ner,f Zed's ban rate increased because of Zed hate.

Well I mean, considering how he is he always gets fed, and adcs now have no protection. QSS was the only protection adcs had against Zed, and now that's been taken away. Because of that, a smart Zed will just focus the adc and continue killing while feeding himself and theres nothing anyone can do to stop it, because Zed is in and out in a heartbeat. I can understand the frustration

nymtheravenJun 23, 20162 votes

That makes no damned sense. His win rate only counts when he is played. Banned games dont effect the win rate.

SithesisLordJun 23, 20162 votes

Comparatively speaking, ban rate does affect his win rate.

If his ban rate increased or decreased from the patch before his nerfs to the patch after, that would either increase or decrease his win rate and play rate by consequence since:

The less he's banned = He gets played more = The matches played pool increases in amount, therefore affecting his win rate positively or negatively depending on his success or failure.

The more he's banned = He gets played less = The matches played pool decreases in amount, and affects his win rate just the same.

It´s the same thing for champions with really low ban rate and play rate. Kayle, Urgot, etc.

nymtheravenJun 23, 20161 votes

That is completely indirect and circumstantial not a causation.

nymtheravenJun 23, 20161 votes

No actually playing less games makes no difference. wins / total played = % of games won. it is a percentage of total games played. Did you guys take math in elementry school? Jeeze! The public school system has failed you. I mean it IS true that if you move the bottom number it will change the result, HOWEVER getting banned doesnt change total games played. If he is banned, he isnt played, and therefore doesn't count towards the TOTAL.

ÇhåryzårdJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That makes no damned sense. His win rate only counts when he is played. Banned games dont effect the win rate.

Go on Lolking. All the champions with high ban rates have less than 50% winrates. Coincidence? No, its math. Look at the comment below yours and it is explained to you.

nymtheravenJun 23, 20161 votes

That is coincidental no causal. A ban doesnt count toward a loss or a win therefore doesnt affect winrate. A ban is a non-play. Win rate is a percentage of games won divided by games played. If you dont play it doesn't count. WON /total played if I play 5 games and I win 3, my win rate is 60%.

blfUvZ8YbuJun 23, 20161 votes

Riot needs Adc nerf if they want better game.

Zed isn't strong.I'm honest in every respects.

DefendedJun 23, 20161 votes

Not going to lie kindred should just be deleted. Champ is way too good

DediguiseJun 23, 20161 votes

His low win rate combined with his high ban rate imply not that he is op, but that he is frustrating to play against. Statistics only have context when viewed with other statistics.

Kindred however, is and has been completely op pre and post devourer.