Fiddle E bounce on himself?

Disulfiram·Jan 23, 2018·12 votes·1,270 views

Was reading an old discussion about the idea of making Fiddle's E bounce on himself if there is no other target, and was wondering: would it still be a bad idea today?

Mid and Support Fiddle would be barely affected: their E can easily bounce off minions, and in lane there almost always are minions for it to bounce off of. Jungle Fiddle on the other hand would be greatly helped by this: he would get a huge dueling boost, and his clear speed would considerably improve.

Since Jungle Fiddle is the one aspect that is suffering currently, the above does sound exactly like what he needs right now. If it ends up being too much and breaks Fiddle, a fix would be easy: if E just bounced on him, then the next bounce deals reduced damage. This would decrease the strength of this buff without negating it altogether.

Opinions?

53 Comments

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20185 votes

Yes lets fk melee champions even more. Just no bad idea

Bouncing 7 times is unhealthy no matter the reduced damage

DisulfiramJan 23, 20182 votes

E can bounce max 3 times on the same target. In lane, E always has minions to bounce off of, thus this won't matter. In the jungle, most melee junglers gank better pre-6 and can easily invade him; the only exceptions are champions with even worse early game than him in the jungle, like for example Yi. Post-6, he's a free kill in his own jungle unless he can get the drop on the enemy through superior vision control.

So, what are you rambling about exactly?

Chembaron YamadaJan 23, 20181 votes

Like someone else pointed out, it can bounce 4 times on your enemy if there is no other target available. That is huge damage and in my opinion, probably too much.

Not saying Fiddle couldn't use some help in the jungle, but I would prefer not to go that particular way.

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

E can bounce up to 6 times (1st hit + 5 bounces) in total.

Are you people seriously going to get into this argument without even knowing what you're talking about?

Chembaron YamadaJan 23, 20181 votes

Fine, 3 times then. My bad, I didn't double check it myself. Doesn't change my opinion that I think it is a bit too much dueling power.

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

If it ends up being too much and breaks Fiddle, a fix would be easy: if E just bounced on him, then the next bounce deals reduced damage. This would decrease the strength of this buff without negating it altogether.

Chembaron YamadaJan 23, 20182 votes

That sounds reasonable. Honestly, I don't get why you guys have to be so extremely aggressive about this topic. I didn't even say that it's a bad idea or anything, I just said I would prefer another solution.

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, I don't get why you guys have to be so extremely aggressive about this topic.

Sorry.

JmmanJan 23, 20182 votes

Well look at other people post.

They have no idea how fiddles spells and him really work. Then they are calling changes OP without really know about them or the champs.

Then we add on we have been waiting for YEARS for a true fix and never gotten it.

Next the last couple of meta have been mobility and burst damage. Something he has either of. His damage is dots and he is immobile. So once you try and talk about it the trolls come. Then the fiddle buff get throw out and never seen again. This has been the process for a couple of years now.

JmmanJan 23, 20183 votes

what are you talking about. Melee gets to fiddle and instant death fiddle. Heaven forbid if we make the mindless click everything to instant kill him into thinking about it.

Do you realize how easy he is to solo. everyone has CC and mobility just about. This lets people avoid most of his damge. If you counter to stay on him instead of back moving to mob or CCing him wouldn't that be your mis-play. Event if you max bats you can do what 350 to 500 damage (counting base resist).

You could bait the bat. pick the attack spot. Time CC. Heck you know all the shit fiddle has to do.... I see this require skill instead of mashing buttons.

Azir soldiers if close Gangplank barrel if close Heimerdinger turrets Illaoi tentacles Khazix instant kill if too close Leona stunned for 10 years if too close Malzahar pets kill you if too close Rengar instant kill if too close Udyr you want to melee or get close to this guy? Zoe yea don't have to get close to die here Zyra plants if too close have to move around them Yorick yea get close to him Syndra push "R" to win if too close Nasus oh your in "Q" range?

Why can all the above champs you can't be "too close" but fiddle can't be at lease somewhat dangerous at close range.

Bias is all.

Chembaron YamadaJan 23, 20181 votes

I said I am not against buffs for jungle fiddle, it is just that I would prefer to not give him that buff exactly.

And you say that you want the enemy to require skill to defeat Fiddlesticks... a champion who is basically all just point&click.

He is in need of his VGU badly to solve some problems and I am not against giving him some buffs on the way, but why do we have to increase his dueling power so much to achieve that?

JmmanJan 23, 20182 votes

First having point and clicks doesn't mean the champ doesn't require timing or skill to play. Then you look at him being weaker than almost all the champs he requites MORE SKILL to win than higher win rate champs. And your implying you shouldn't have to use skill to beat a champ because he has point and clicks? So how many games you have on this OP beast of a champ fiddle to draw your personally conclusion from? Me.... main since season 1.

2nd yes i'm saying put this buff on the test realm and see. Because it could be a good hot fix until they get time to do a VGU. like they did Urgot Aatrox .

3rd i'm tired of hear this crap for 3 plus years.... need to wait til VGU.... want other buffs. Heck Rito said they though buffing item 1402 would fix it all. So out of touch.... then they reverted that buff because of other champs. But nooo can't listen to mains the only 500 people in the world to play him. Yes we need to increase him dueling power because everything he has requires close range.... dueling. Do you really want to increase his CC or Poke or Burst...... All his damage is over time spells. No different here. I'll telling you as a fiddle main this will not break him and just allow him more than drain for damage when he is alone. When I die to melee and range its never just one more hit did it. its either they blew me up or I blew them up. And in lane / team fights this has no change.

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20181 votes

And Where did I excatly state that it would Bounce 7 times on a melee?

Yes it would bounce 3 times. Which would easly make it Hard cc For aprox 2.2 seconds

I do agree Fiddlestick is in a weak state. But this is mostly due to Riot fking up a jungle monster camp Your buff suggestion is however 0/10. They are buffing Jungle item lets keep it at that so far

Anyone who doesnt know how badly melee champions are suffering in league shouldnt be suggesting changes

inb4 some no name player shows me fking statistics XDD

DisulfiramJan 23, 20185 votes

E only silences on the first hit.

Are you people seriously going to get into this argument without even knowing what you're talking about?

They are buffing Jungle item lets keep it at that so far

Which will be tremendously helpful on the only jungler who does not need or want a jungle item, and who only buys one for the XP.

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20181 votes

IT DOESNT FKING MATTER IT STILL SAYS IF YOU ARE MELEE YOU SUFFER

IF YOU ARE RANGED 450 OR SO range + you ll get hit once

#SO YOU ARE SPECIFICLY MAKING MELEE EXPERIENCE WORSE WITH THIS FKING BUFF

AND YES they changed the ability boohooo I still know more about league then 500 avg board users combined This is smurf

JmmanJan 23, 20185 votes

You have no clue what you are talking about and are dead wrong. This will not break him. Don't care if you are a smurf or not. Your wrong.

yea 200 extra damage might kill you.... but wait, if you cc him he has not drained and can't only melee you.... SO a free kill to melee should be buff a little..... How many master and challenger fiddles are there?

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You have no clue what you are talking about and are dead wrong. This will not break him. Don't care if you are a smurf or not. Your wrong.

yea 200 extra damage might kill you.... but wait if you cc him he has not drain and can't only melee you.... SO a free kill to melee should be buff a little..... How many master and challenger fiddles are there?

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREAKING FIDDLESTICK OR NOT BREAKING FIDDLESTICK. I actually like fiddlestick

THIS IS ME BEING AGAINST A CHANGE WHICH SAYS FK YOU IF YOU ARE MELEE.

Find another way to buff him. His jungle item is getting buffed. Tbh fiddle is in fked up state. He needs global changes (camp changes) more then anything.

If they buff him he has more chance in becoming laner then better jungler

JmmanJan 23, 20181 votes

So if you type in CAPS DOES THAT MAKE YOU CORRECT NOW?

nope didn't think so. Don't buff him against melee because you want a free kill.... you know he has a very very very small player base. I don't think you will really see with event with this buff. because the none fiddle mains still wont be good with it.

Velzard of KozJan 23, 20183 votes

Yes it would bounce 3 times. Which would easly make it Hard cc For aprox 2.2 seconds

Dafuq? How does it enhance the CC. Silence is only applied once per target no matter the bounces.

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WorOE7h2,comment-id=0001000000010001,timestamp=2018-01-23T17:56:50.512+0000)

Dafuq? How does it enhance the CC. Silence is only applied once per target no matter the bounces.

It used to work like that I WASNT UP TO date my bad on the silence part

JmmanJan 23, 20181 votes

I dont think your up to date on ALOT of things. Like this screwing Melee or making fiddle too strong. Lets just be honest you don't want any buff on fiddle. Doesn't matter his win rate because you told me "why should I have to use skill to beat someone with point and clicks"

Since you have no idea or up to day on him. Like removing the -mr for the stupid run thing. Or how bats don't hit a target again if there is another target that it hasn't hit yet. (unless draining) or how his fear doesn't break any animation and it will take your fear without ever fearing the target ( cheap codes)

I don't think your at any point to give feed back on what fiddle should or shouldn't have.

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I dont think your up to date on ALOT of things. Like this screwing Melee or making fiddle too strong. Lets just be honest you don't want any buff on fiddle. Doesn't matter his win rate because you told me "why should I have to use skill to beat someone with point and clicks"

I actually never said that. Milion dollars to you if I did

Since you have no idea or up to day on him. Like removing the -mr for the stupid run thing. Or how bats don't hit a target again if there is another target that it hasn't hit yet. (unless draining) or how his fear doesn't break any animation and it will take your fear without ever fearing the target ( cheap codes)

as an Ex chall I have idea about literaly every champion

or how his fear doesn't break any animation and it will take your fear without ever fearing the target ( cheap codes) Dont quite understand what this means. His q can bug out?

I don't think your at any point to give feed back on what fiddle should or shouldn't have.

I told you why he shouldnt have that. You can disagree All you want but I gave you a reason

You are specificly buffing fiddlestick vs melee champions

Try equally buffing fiddlestick against all champions

Reggardless Ryze E used to function like fiddlestick E. It no longer does.. Ugh I WONDER WHY not like it was extremly polarizing against melee champions

Thats not to say that your suggestion is bad. League has insane ranged bias I am tired of them enhancing it. If they ever fix this issue (they wont) I agree with your change

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Infernal Ironic,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WorOE7h2,comment-id=0001000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-23T21:45:52.498+0000)

as an Ex chall

Oh, nice to meet you. I'm on a smurf too: I'm actually Visnu, just chilling with you mortals.

Reggardless Ryze E used to function like fiddlestick E. It no longer does.. Ugh I WONDER WHY not like it was extremly polarizing against melee champions

I'd suggest using a different example, since Ryze still has his W - which is far, far more anti-melee than his E ever was.

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Oh, nice to meet you. I'm on a smurf too: I'm actually Visnu, just chilling with you mortals.

I'd suggest using a different example, since Ryze still has his W - which is far, far more anti-melee than his E ever was.

Lets act like other fiddlestick abilities arent more effective vs melees already

Poske is my main. Got a 14 week board ban for aparently sexist thread http://prntscr.com/i4nwof

Ironicly got it on 13th April...

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

It's nice that you provided proof, but I was actually mocking you: you see, what you write should be able to stand on its own logic and premises, without having to resort to your rank.

Anyway I'd like to point out that you keep ignoring the fact that Ryze still has his W.

Lets act like other fiddlestick abilities arent more effective vs melees already

I seriously doubt that Fiddle is the reason melees suffer right now; then again, I concede that a lone Fiddlesticks is slightly more dangerous to melee champions than a cannon minion is, while ranged champions instead only need to place a ward once in a while to be completely safe from him.

("Lone" is one of the important keywords here: if paired with someone that can keep enemies in his ult, Fiddlesticks is a mortal danger to anyone regardless of them being ranged or melee)

Infernal IronicJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's nice that you provided proof, but I was actually mocking you: you see, what you write should be able to stand on its own logic and premises, without having to resort to your rank.

Anyway I'd like to point out that you keep ignoring the fact that Ryze still has his W.

I seriously doubt that Fiddle is the reason melees suffer right now; then again, I concede that a lone Fiddlesticks is slightly more dangerous to melee champions than a cannon minion is, while ranged champions instead only need to place a ward once in a while to be completely safe from him.

("Lone" is one of the important keywords here: if paired with someone that can keep enemies in his ult, Fiddlesticks is a mortal danger to anyone regardless of them being ranged or melee)

there are bunch of reasons why melee champions suck. Search Poske history thread and you ll find a mega one if you want to find out what reasons Its a recent thread. Fixing all gameplay issues or something you ll be able to read there bunch of stuff melee champions have to suffer and how I would fix those issues

I am not saying Fiddle is opressive to melees. he definetly isnt compared to lulu / janna But dont buff him in a way where he becomes opressive to melees

Even the latest fiddlestick buff (more bounces) completly ruined aram games any time fiddle is there but I dont care about shit hole modes

as far as ryze comparison. Fiddlestick has even stronger CC and the diff in range is only 40. Lets not act like People dont counterplay fiddle w by often walking away from it

I would personaly reward fiddle with new effect after he channels W for a while I would also allow him to use ultimate while chaneling W

Stuff like those are better buffs

I definetly saw worse suggestions then yours. No further changes should fk up melees more

JmmanJan 24, 20181 votes

Really Ryze can kite and chain root you. While fiddles fear is less than all the adc AA range.

Then Ryze proc how many shield and faster than fiddle.

Ryze damage isn't' stop but CC / mobility

Ryze has a lot of hp and tankish. Fiddle needs a lot of AP and pen.

Oh I get it your just trolling to see people responses or did you buy your acc....

Yea that is why everyone plays Fiddle in the LCS instead of Ryze....

I understand why you are a EX Challenger (if you didn't buy the account) you carried with a broken champ and now you can't compete because you don't understand the champs.

You tune in all your post says a lot about you. And how you think your opinion and you are better than others.

Infernal IronicJan 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Really Ryze can kite and chain root you. While fiddles fear is less than all the adc AA range.

Avg ADC Range standard set by Riot is 550. Fear range is 575 (this is Varus range for reference)

Then Ryze proc how many shield and faster than fiddle.

I am not saying Fiddlestick is more viable then Ryze. But you are comparing apples and oranges

Ryze damage isn't' stop but CC / mobility

Me no englarino

Ryze has a lot of hp and tankish. Fiddle needs a lot of AP and pen.

you are from NA seriously wtf

Oh I get it your just trolling to see people responses or did you buy your acc....

Yea that is why everyone plays Fiddle in the LCS instead of Ryze....

XD I was comparing OLD SEASON 1 RYZE E WHICH WAS BASSICLY WHAT OP SUGGESTED. NOW THAT ability is gone and ryze required 3 reworks

I understand why you are a EX Challenger (if you didn't buy the account) you carried with a broken champ and now you can't compete because you don't understand the champs.

Ript english again. What broken champ? Does ADC yasuo need a nerf to broken? Is le blanc broken? IS katarina broken? Is orianna broken?

You tune in all your post says a lot about you. And how you think your opinion and you are better than others.

I cant comprehend your sentences thats says alot about you

JmmanJan 24, 20181 votes

Corki, Draven, Ezreal, Jhin, Kalista, Kennen, Miss Fortune, Twitch, Vayne: 550 Jinx: Rockets 600 625 650 675 700 Tristana: 550| 557| 564| 571| 578| 585| 592| 599| 606| 613| 620| 627| 634| 641| 648| 655| 662| 669 Cait: 650 Kog'Maw: W 590| 620| 650| 680| 710| Ashe: 600 Varus: 575 Corki, Draven, Ezreal, Jhin, Kalista, Kennen, Miss Fortune, Twitch, Vayne: 550 Jinx, Quinn, Azir: 525 Kindred, Kog Maw, Lucian, Sivir, Teemo, Jayce: 500

But yea I guess I can see where saying 550 nothing thinking about item 3094 and Total ignoring everything else can kinda show your point....

But fearing at max range will make you not be able to drain...

Its no hablo ingles... are you being racist?

ryze builds item 3027 item 3001 item 3003 item 3157 when talking about AP items everything list these as tank but when talking about Tankish AP everything say this isn't tankish.... go figure AD syndrome.

Fiddle needs Pen but since your would be a high rank if something happened at that time and place and you know more then me. (season 1 fiddle main)

So I point out how you said something and you said you didn't (less than 24 hrs ago). I linked it so your a liar.

We pointed out how you didn't know how the silence worked or how the bounced work. But you know everything about the champ.

Your "real" account is "banned"

You personally attack my grammar and sound quite racist. (because adding an "r" to you is hard.. and the other just need a ; but you still responsed and understood... lying again I guess... or is it your nature human instinct to attack when you feel scared?)

got it Trundle

JmmanJan 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I said I am not against buffs for jungle fiddle, it is just that I would prefer to not give him that buff exactly.

And you say that you want the enemy to require skill to defeat Fiddlesticks... a champion who is basically all just point&click.

He is in need of his VGU badly to solve some problems and I am not against giving him some buffs on the way, but why do we have to increase his dueling power so much to achieve that?

can I have my $$$$$ now. You can just send a free skin instead.

Now a real EX challenge would understand they knew about the detail of THEIR mains. And would be foolish to think they new more about champs they didn't play than other challengers. But seeing how there isn't any fiddle challengers I say you have lying because you never would have play against any.

This isn't against just melee because the bounce could still hit range as will if you ran into their range.

I say that League is AD bias.... that would include your "range" too. But at the end of the day you are unwilling to event try something on someone that needs help badly because your SCARED. Such a sad idea of turning your back because of the unknown. Event though fiddle mains are saying its not that big of a buff. Because its not like you can back and then re-attack.... wait you can..... I go back to my point that they made AD brainless champs without having to think to win. So dumbing down of champs to feed the clueless player base and covering the faults of the players critical things skills is bad for the game.

Infernal IronicJan 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

can I have my $$$$$ now. You can just send a free skin instead.

Now a real EX challenge would understand they knew about the detail of THEIR mains. And would be foolish to think they new more about champs they didn't play than other challengers. But seeing how there isn't any fiddle challengers I say you have lying because you never would have play against any.

I have 20 000 league games. I am atleast mastery 6 on Fiddlestick if we take into a count games before mastery system came in. This is for reference AND I am real EX chalenger but whatever

This isn't against just melee because the bounce could still hit range as will if you ran into their range.

BUT HOW DOES MELEE FIGHT YOU OTHER THEN FKING REACHING YOUR RANGE HOLY SHIT.

I say that League is AD bias.... that would include your "range" too. But at the end of the day you are unwilling to event try something on someone that needs help badly because your SCARED. Such a sad idea of turning your back because of the unknown. Event though fiddle mains are saying its not that big of a buff. Because its not like you can back and then re-attack.... wait you can..... I go back to my point that they made AD brainless champs without having to think to win. So dumbing down of champs to feed the clueless player base and covering the faults of the players critical things skills is bad for the game.

I dont fking care if its a big buff or not. It creates even more unsatisfying melee gameplay I gave my suggestions for fiddle above

JmmanJan 23, 20183 votes

maybe we should ask him to show us on a doll where fiddle has touched him.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

MüffîñJan 23, 20181 votes

enemy
fiddle
enemy
fiddle
enemy
fiddle
enemy

at worst it would be 4 bounces to a single target.

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

E can bounce up to 6 times (1st hit + 5 bounces) in total.

Are you people seriously going to get into this argument without even knowing what you're talking about?

MüffîñJan 24, 20181 votes

i dont play fiddle so i didnt know how many bounces it had so i used his call of 7 times instead.

JmmanJan 23, 20182 votes

I can't believe the whiny and crying from the masses over this.

Look at no resists its 240 level 1 to 580 max.
what is 20% start resists added to it. 192 to 464. what is 40% 144 to 232

And they have to be close to melee range and 100% in auto range range for 5 secs at least? How in the world isn't this an equal trade. Yep can't move for the 5 secs or build any resist or watch my positioning. New flash this would 90% be for when you invade him in the jungle. The lanes have mobs to balance off of. Just fight near a jungle camp. its like no one want to think they just want the easy button.

There is some much busted crap that THIS is what people think is op...... god help me for the stupid masses. We never got to event try it on the PBE to see what the effect are. I being the worst jungle and dropping 5% points jungle and support make him OP.

Shaco Heimerdinger boxes and turret do more at level 1 if you don't move.

PokladnicaZlaJan 23, 20181 votes

Didn't RITO try it and decide it was too bonkers?

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

Yep. That's exactly what I was referring to in the first sentence of the opening post.

JmmanJan 24, 20182 votes

I don't think it made it to the PBE realm. The "rito" gameplay crew or balance team scrapped it. I never saw it on the PBE. I could be wrong.

SamBunzlyJan 23, 20181 votes

In helping him in the jungle, I can see how this could help. A slight adjustment though?

Limit the bounce effect. Don't let it bounce between Fiddles and a single target 7 times. Instead, let it bounce around as usual, and on the 7th/final bounce, if it can bounce back to him and either Reset or get another bounce? Or maybe let this only apply to jungle camps, similar to what they did with Ekko to make him more viable in the jungle.

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

E can bounce up to 6 times, not 7.

Anyway: the problem with limiting it to jungle camps is that Fiddle does not really need that kind of buff. You see, Fiddle can already have E bounce between Gromp and Blue, and the only other solo camp is Red. What he lacks is dueling power: finding anyone as you enter an unwarded bush means you're dead 80% of the time, but finding a Fiddlesticks means you're either going to get a free kill (well, unless he's charging his ult and you're too arrogant to dash away) or simply get away.

SamBunzlyJan 23, 20182 votes

Ah, my bad on the number. I haven't played fiddles in ages, though I've seen some people stream/make youtube videos playing him.

Yeah he lacks dueling potential and he's easily countered, but he's got a heavy damaging/self healing w. I mostly see him support these days, likely because he lacks the safety to play solo well. He clears camps slow, has poor roaming potential, and usually needs to burn flash or something similar in order to get the jump on anyone. Maybe it's just me and an inherent disliking of the champion, but his kit (to me anyway) seems to revolve around him requiring help from his team.

Friendly RamJan 23, 20181 votes

I'd love even if it just did this for the buffs.

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

In case you find it useful: you can have E bounce between Blue buff and Gromp (auto gromp, auto blue, move to the midway point, and farm both at the same time). If you start Red you can take E at level 2 and pull this off immediately, on your first clear.

JmmanJan 23, 20181 votes

right but you are also taking more damage. IF the other jungle/mid/support comes you will die or be really far behind. Leaving you unable to gank or help lanes.

But yea I did think when I jungled him. Its just drain to kill mobs leaves you open to no answer from a gank. Then your waiting on CD to try and do damage. I have to save by "E" if I don't know where the other jungle is or they have been invading a lot to bounce once they show up to kill me. But 9 times out of 10 I just have to run because I can't fight back.

DisulfiramJan 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

right but you are also taking more damage. IF the other jungle/mid/support comes you will die or be really far behind. Leaving you unable to gank or help lanes.

That's the best part: W outheals it all. If you got a smiteless Red (Fiddle can do that without even a leash) you never get below 75% hp with this path (well, depends on when and what are you going to smite, actually).

https://youtu.be/nivwZbnM32o

JmmanJan 24, 20182 votes

I agree but when ever I see a fiddle jungle I keep the blue warded just for this. Once I interrupt the drain with a CC I can usually kill him on any support. (sure I do think tank support do way to much early damage.

My point was I feel fiddle has to "break" or bend the system to be the same as other jungles. I'm also a fiddle main that went support/mid from the jungle two seasons ago. I just fell junglers that are AD, assassins or tank add more value to the team.

DisulfiramJan 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I agree but when ever I see a fiddle jungle I keep the blue warded just for this. Once I interrupt the drain with a CC I can usually kill him on any support. (sure I do think tank support do way to much early damage.

That's because you're a Fiddle main - it's almost cheating! Most people don't even know anything about him beyond "he's easy to kill".

My point was I feel fiddle has to "break" or bend the system to be the same as other jungles. I'm also a fiddle main that went support/mid from the jungle two seasons ago. I just fell junglers that are AD, assassins or tank add more value to the team.

No argument there.

Masala ChaiJan 23, 20181 votes

Is it a handholding mechanic? Fiddlesticks does not need to be a duelist type champion, as a mage; and very few Battle Mages (barring Vladimir) function as a duelist even in their laning form, and most have extremely gated mechanics that has a form of cadence. I don't think Riot wants to create another Elise in terms of clear, dueling, and to some extent ganking (less so for Fiddle). I think that doing a E bounce mechanic on him would be a tragic mistake as he would likely be gimp nerfed at some point later as a result of this buff.

That being said, it's probably better to look at Fiddlesticks through an objective lens, what does Fiddlesticks excel at? What does Fiddlesticks want to do? And how is this core to his thematic? Simple number changes that benefit jungle Fiddlesticks more than Lanesticks (passive buff), would probably be much more healthier in the long run than being a walking pinball machine.

JmmanJan 23, 20182 votes

But this would buff jungle fiddle and not lane/support.

The problem is all his damage require close range and another minion/enemy near by. So by his "Kit" he is a dualist mage. If you play a lot of fiddle you have to learn the CD and timing of the enemies skills to beat him. You also have to make sure you have the best positioning and vision. Then you have to make sure the time and order of all the skills coming into play correctly. How is this not a dueling / tactics mage.

You can't change his numbers without effecting the lane fiddles. The only way to buff jungle fiddle and not lane is how the spells work. More damage is better in lane. Faster is better in lane. But the way the bat bounce in lane he won't change unless you dive him without minions near by. But if you have just one minion within an adc AA range behind you the bat will bounce away and only hit you once. All this crap is because people don't want to have to "learn to play" against him. His damage is quite low without his ult. You can avoid a lot of it with a stun or dash/flash. No other mage is that way. This spells all have short range.

So if you can't make him a duelists he needs to get moved out of the jungle. His problem is he has no answer to counter jungle/invade unless the other team helps fast and quick. That will never happen in solo. Next, event at the LCS he was support only. His damage isn't reliable burst. Its avoidable DoT. If you don't want him as a duelist you need to change his whole kit. How is that being in attack range for the spell to bounce not a draw back. I swear the people making comment have ZERO games played on him. I can go on and on. But you are wrong. This change wouldn't cause the sky to fall chicken little. Nor would it make him a pinball machine. He would still die to 70% of the gank attacks. I love how you can't take the word of fiddle mains since season 1 on what would correct things. Nope you just have that "feeling" right.