Can someone please explain this silence thing to me again

Aamano·Jun 23, 2016·3 votes·810 views

how is a 1 second or 0.5 second silence on Talon and LeBlanc toxic and unhealthy, but a 2.5 second AoE silence on chogath perfectly acceptable to riot

27 Comments

YJRBqwXJcSJun 23, 20164 votes

How Is lulu's polymorph acceptable

DeathBurstJun 23, 20165 votes

Same as Cho'Gath, she's not an Assassin.

The problem is that Assassin can kill you in a very short time, so if they remove your ability to react on top of that, that is unhealthy. That a utility focused champ (Lulu, Cho'Gath) or a DPS champ (Malzahar) can have a long duration silence is completely different.

YJRBqwXJcSJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Same as Cho'Gath, she's not an Assassin.

The problem is that Assassin can kill you in a very short time, so if they remove your ability to react on top of that, that is unhealthy. That a utility focused champ (Lulu, Cho'Gath) or a DPS champ (Malzahar) can have a long duration silence is completely different.

Lulu does her targetted attack thing on you. Gets a free slow, polymorph, Chunks the shit out of you with autos, lulu already has a life lead, you go to kill her, she ults, does the same combo.

You are now dead

How is that fair?

DeathBurstJun 23, 20163 votes

Because you took the bad decision to "go to kill her" when you actually couldn't and she had kill pressure on you.

More generally, the number 1 skill you have to learn in LoL is assessing the situation and only fight when you have the upper hand. For realz, this is not a joust between knights, you should never take a fair fight and see how it turns out, you should only fight when you have the advantage.

YJRBqwXJcSJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Because you took the bad decision to "go to kill her" when you actually couldn't and she had kill pressure on you.

More generally, the number 1 skill you have to learn in LoL is assessing the situation and only fight when you have the upper hand. For realz, this is not a joust between knights, you should never take a fair fight and see how it turns out, you should only fight when you have the advantage.

It isn't a skill thing

If lulu Is full health and has ult you aren't out dueling her, and it's frustrating.

There is no out playing her kit. All of her spells except the q which can be made target able takes no skill to land.

But leave it to a typical league junky to support a woman champion with absurd power in the kit

DeathBurstJun 23, 20161 votes

"outplay" is a buzz word, seriously. And yes, decision making is a skill. What you need to understand is that this game is not a 1v1. If you can't kill Lulu, simply don't try? You have plenty of other ways to get fed and win the game. Roam to other lanes, farm safely until you get your core items and your power spikes, etc.

Yeah, you probably can't out-duel her when she has her ult up. You probably also can't kill an Ekko while he has his ult up. Or you probably shouldn't engage an Annie when she has her stun ready. There are plenty of situation where you can't do something. The good decision is to not try to do it anyway and find what you can do instead...

Bottom point is: Lulu is not OP, her kit doesn't have "absurd power", and her silence is not un-healthy.

Also, how the hell is it relevant that she's a woman? Especially since she's just a child...

DarkRitualJun 23, 20162 votes

It takes more than 0.2 seconds to do it, unlike those assassins.

YJRBqwXJcSJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It takes more than 0.2 seconds to do it, unlike those assassins.

Thats a stupid analogy

You just said you don't care that lulu out duels you as long as it is a slow process.

An assassin's job is to immediately kill any squishy they face with little to no effort. That's called a check and balance.

I shouldn't be getting out dueled by a character who was intended to be a fucking support.

She needs to be nerfed into a support role or made into a solo lane champion.

DarkRitualJun 23, 20161 votes

You shouldn't be trying to duel any damage-building champ that has that much cc and self-defense, without a FoW ambush. I've 1v1'd plenty of ADC's as 2-item Morgana support. Not because she's OP, but because she has the tools to lock them down with a full ability cycle before they can move.

Assassins can still instakill champs they catch off-guard. The problem was before, they didn't even need to catch you off-guard, just land a silence. So the choice was either flash anytime they tried to silence (and die next time they did it anyhow), or hope they messed up and you lived long enough to flash after. Now you can still flash mid-combo, or use other defensive mechanics. THAT is a check and balance.

I completely agree that Riot needs to decide if Lulu should be a support or a solo laner and balance around that. I would rather she be a solo laner.

PentaJukeJun 24, 20161 votes

uhm bruh wtf are you talking about, she can go mid or sup, riot doesnt have to make her in a specific role.

Maximum MordeJun 23, 20161 votes

How was it fair for you to go beat up a little purple midget with the mind of a child? Go pick on someone else.

Zero Skill TankJun 23, 20162 votes

Silence was removed from assassin champions, because it was giving them the ability to mindlessly jump on their opponent, trade them with combo, and go back safe from enemy hitting them back with anything.

Cho is different, to use his silence he needs to walk up to you, and when he does that he is vulnerable either to poke or gapclosers.

OleandervineJun 23, 20161 votes

Because LeBlanc and Talon can 100-0 easily enough as it is, and utterly removing your ability to react is just oppressive and means anyone they target WILL die. That is why it was removed. Cho'gath is a tank. His biggest damage dealing spell is in his R, and even then, he can't unload his entire kit on you and instantly murder you in 90% of the situations you see him. Plus, it's not a targeted silence.

Chaos689Jun 23, 20161 votes

Umm that's only recently. If the cho gets like 3 AP items you can 100% be oneshot.

Chaos689Jun 23, 20161 votes

Also waht about garen then? He has a 1.3k or something base dmge on his E, and a silence wit hhuge dmge every few seconds PLUS a cleanse and MS. In addition, he has his BS oneshotting "execute" ultimate where he jsut walks in unkillably and murders the backline... assassin if ive eve see none.

RalanrJun 23, 20162 votes

Has to be a low health target for his ult to do its best.

QuephaJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Also waht about garen then? He has a 1.3k or something base dmge on his E, and a silence wit hhuge dmge every few seconds PLUS a cleanse and MS. In addition, he has his BS oneshotting "execute" ultimate where he jsut walks in unkillably and murders the backline... assassin if ive eve see none.

MS is a complete joke compared to the kind of mobility that Talon, Kassadin, and LeBlanc have.

The Last BalladJun 23, 20161 votes

A silence that he needs to be right up to you to use, which if you wait to cc him until after he uses it he cannot cleanse(note: the cleanse only works for slows) himself until not only the buff falls off, but the skill comes off cooldown. So hard cc(snares, stuns, polymorphs, silences, etc) are how you should be taking him on.

And the ult cannot "oneshot" as it only does 525 damage plus 40% missing health, at max rank. No one has that low of health at lvl 16(especially considering the base 30 mr each champ has). So unless they have been hit multiple times beforehand, he cannot kill them with his ult. And it is only true damage when you are the villain, so you should avoid being by him when he has his ult up.

AramsAreBestJun 23, 20161 votes

Choose can just build ap and 1 shot combo.

OleandervineJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Choose can just build ap and 1 shot combo.

He can, yes, but it takes him considerably longer and much more effort to pull it off. LeBlanc and Talon can come up, gut you like an animal, then disappear as quickly as they came. Cho has to walk up to you and then kill you. You can still move while silenced, so unless Cho is silencing you when you're beside him (in which case his ability to silence and kill is irrelevant), you can easily get away from him by moving. He can be seriously kited. LeBlanc and Talon cannot, they can just keep dashing on top of you.

DenevielJun 23, 20161 votes

Silence on sins remove any change of escape. They can just 100 to 0 and enemy can do nothing to react ( not even flash out ).

Silence on tank ( or supposted one ) works fine. Cho got no gap and no mobility and he cover with hard CC

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 23, 20161 votes

talon is mobile with a slow and will kill you before the silence wears off or if you build defense leave you too crippled to fight back

leblanc does the same

cho still has to catch you

QuephaJun 23, 20161 votes

Targeted On a mobile champion

The Last BalladJun 23, 20161 votes

One person also complained that Soraka has a silence. Despite that it was in a small area and can be cleansed by walking at most 400 units to the right. And it does squat by herself. "BUT OP" any way.

Maximum MordeJun 23, 20161 votes

In Talon's case you were dead with 0 chance to use any abilities to interrupt because of the silence.

In LeBlanc's case it ment she could chunk or kill you with 0 ability to respond to it before she just teleported back to safety.

MISTAFUNKTASTICJun 23, 20161 votes

Talon and LeBlanc Abilities are targeted. Making a 100-0 combo very easy when a momentary silence is part of their kit.

Chogath's 100-0 requires landing a skill shot, and being close enough to walk to melee range as he has no gap closer, and building sub-optimal glass canon rather than AP bruiser.

/thread