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Pro-Play-Picks DOES NOT Mean A Champion Is UP, OP, Well Designed or Badly Designed.

Mira Arya Enthe··4 votes·513 views

A champion being picked in competitive play doesn't mean they are in a good spot designwise. Pros will pick extremely niche, otherwise worthless champions just because it fits their intended composition and counters a specific enemy. Pros will also pick extremely toxic or overpowered designs because they work for what they are doing. Pro-Play-Picks is not the bar for when a champion is designed well. They don't care if the design is toxic, generally worthless, overpowered, underpowered or so forth, as long as it fits their immediate needs.

Stop saying "X was used in LCS, therefore (insert complaint)" If you have complaints about a champions design, use general statistic(win/ban/pick/skill curve ratios, etc), personal experience, general reasoning, number crunching, logic and so forth. Not "It was picked in LCS!"

Now, to be fair. IF a design is already doing far too well and is ALSO picked constantly in LCS, then it MAY be worth mentioning. But the idea that a champion is automatically viable, overpowered or overtuned for general play just because it is picked in LCS. Or that a champion design is weak, worthless or fair in design, or not toxic, just because it wasn't picked in LCS, is also stupid.

Again, argue with statistics, logic, ability/item analysis and personal experience. Not "BUT MUH PRO PLAYERS PICKED IT!"

10 Comments

ValyrianBlade1 votes

I would say that one argument does apply though: If a champion is picked in the pro-scene, it isn't underpowered or in need of buffs.

I mean, as much as you say "Pros will pick extremely niche, otherwise worthless champions just because it fits their intended composition and counters a specific enemy" I wouldn't call the champion "otherwise worthless". It may not be a strong pick in general, but not all champions should be generalists. If we're going to successfully have over 100 champions, it makes sense for some champions to just be really good at filling a specific niche and otherwise not so good. I wouldn't want to see buffs to something that's picked in pro play, because then in those situations where it's a good pick it would be way too strong.

Examples of champions that should be niche picks and thus not strong in general (and under 50% win rate with a low play rate): KogMaw Corki MissFortune Darius Evelynn LeeSin RekSai Fiddlesticks Mordekaiser Tryndamere Kayle Malzahar Warwick Skarner (basically suppressions) Jayce Teemo Yasuo Zyra Brand (support only)Kennen Kindred Olaf Nunu Nidalee and virtually any assassin.

Which isn't to say that any of these champions are actually in that spot, but my opinion is that they each do something specific that not every team wants.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Possibly. However, it is still pointless to even mention LCS when talking about whether a champion needs buffs or nerfs. Poppy was used in LCS. I think she is in a fine spot, she doesn't need nerfs. But I'm sure somebody is saying that, just because she was used a few times.

Requiemsfire1 votes

Well Poppy is that champion that has that bodyguard niche, which works really well in almost any meta simply because of how amazing her keeper's verdict and steadfast presence are. As mentioned by LCS casters Poppy's steadfast presence alone shuts down champions who rely on their mobility (like LeeSin )which is a major factor in why she is picked .

Personally could use buffs, but nyeh. To me the LCS represents how well a certain champion can be when used correctly, and their strengths exploited to the fullest.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

On most of thesechampions, I'd agree with you on them being more niche picks. However, being a niche pick should not mean that a champion has under 50% winrate - in fact, good niche picks should generally have higher winrates than the more generalist/popular picks!

Darius could be a niche pick in organized pro play. On the other hand, for solo queue, he brings a good set of strengths, while his weaknesses become less simple to abuse due to the chaotic nature of that part of the game.

LeeSin has a very generalist kit, and thus is not made to be a niche pick. If you want a champion that can do a lot of things reasonably well, but not necessarily be as good as others at specific facets, Lee is your choice.

Jayce also has a rather generalistic kit, with tools for a lot of situations. However, Riot never really committed to him being a generalist (which would have meant to find a way to make his poke build weaker while keeping the bruiserish, Triforce-based builds viable). With the recent buffs, he is pretty much a poke/burst hybrid. Similar to this bitch fine lady Nidalee , in fact.

Requiemsfire1 votes

I don't really understand people who think niche picks are bad, a lot of niche champions function really well on their own.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

On most of thesechampions, I'd agree with you on them being more niche picks. However, being a niche pick should not mean that a champion has under 50% winrate - in fact, good niche picks should generally have higher winrates than the more generalist/popular picks!

Darius could be a niche pick in organized pro play. On the other hand, for solo queue, he brings a good set of strengths, while his weaknesses become less simple to abuse due to the chaotic nature of that part of the game.

LeeSin has a very generalist kit, and thus is not made to be a niche pick. If you want a champion that can do a lot of things reasonably well, but not necessarily be as good as others at specific facets, Lee is your choice.

Jayce also has a rather generalistic kit, with tools for a lot of situations. However, Riot never really committed to him being a generalist (which would have meant to find a way to make his poke build weaker while keeping the bruiserish, Triforce-based builds viable). With the recent buffs, he is pretty much a poke/burst hybrid. Similar to this bitch fine lady Nidalee , in fact.

I guess we have the same idea from different sides.

I agree that a niche pick should have an over 50% win rate when played in it's appropriate scenario. However I'd imagine it would be played suboptimally enough to bring that win rate below 50%.

As for the champions: Darius you could be right on. I feel like it depends on your elo and who you play as. To me, Darius is still a top laner who makes life hell for melee and sweet for ranged. His rework has made him less of a niche pick thouhg.

I consider Lee as a niche pick for his early game pressure. I suppose he's not too weak mid/late game. A simple kick play can still win a fight.

Jayce I was meaning more from the perspective of: Top: he's a range top laner. Good in some comps, but weak without an allied tank. Mid: he's an AD mid laner, good with a strong AP top but weak in a lot of comps.

Requiemsfire1 votes

The only worthless champions in solo queue if you aren't a zen master of those are Azir and Kalista,

granted you could probably get away with azir if you're that good at him, but kallista is in a really bad spot.

Orinne1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WkatIT5E,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-10-15T16:33:32.037+0000)

Pros will pick extremely niche, otherwise worthless champions just because it fits their intended composition and counters a specific enemy. Pros will also pick extremely toxic or overpowered designs because they work for what they are doing.

I'm failing to see which of the popular Worlds picks are generally worthless, but otherwise picked because they fill a specific niche. Poppy's the closest thing I can think of but she's not exactly worthless, and anything else I can think of just have tools that work better in coordinated play.

If anything, the pattern I've noticed throughout is that generalists and safer picks have been the go-to throughout the matches with some oddballs thrown in, such as Poppy against the selection of top-lane ranged harassers and Aurelion Sol popping up here and there. The line-up really isn't that different from solo queue.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

True that. One good example is Taric.

His W screams teamwork, and i have to predict my allies movements to make the best use of my abilities.

He is more useful in a team setting, but just because he performs well in LCS doesmt mean he's broken.

The fact that most casual teams cannot use him to his full potential balances him in Solo Q.

The Deckowner1 votes

Nidalee 100% pick ban 80% win rate in worlds.

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