Riot said they planned to give compensation for DFG removal.

SpecterVonBaren·Jan 25, 2015·79 votes·12,265 views

And yet the one champ who is most crushed by its removal has still not seen anything posted about it.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/f909d5a3192ced8a555a166a40dbf811/tumblr_nihuawKQS31rebgd3o1_500.jpg

Now I know that a lot of people have said that they're not sure they want Riot's idea of compensation from their appraisals of the things they've changed about other champs for the upcoming removal, but still, that the one champ that is most tied to the item to not be the first one to have something done for is weird.

143 Comments

ZenithEeveeJan 25, 2015116 votes

Ahri You know, Malz.. i'm starting to think hes taking it a bit too hard..

Malzahar Well.. he'll have to face it one day...

Ahri I know.. but... its just so heart breaking to watch..

Malzahar Yeah... especially now, when he was still a good pick...

Ahri Should... we try to comfort him?

Malzahar Yeah... lets go..

Pitter Patter Pitter Patter

Ahri Hey champ.. we heard that you've been a bit rough the past few days..

Malzahar Yeah.. so, We got you this..

item 3188 Insert Legend of Zelda Chest opening music

Garen ITS NOT THE SAME! I"LL NEVER BE A WAZARD EVA AGAIN!

kitcat300Jan 25, 20155 votes

Unexpected and hilarious.

Blue Moon WolfJan 25, 201517 votes

.__. garen... I got bad news for you... you never where a wizard... your thinking of your sister...

ZenithEeveeJan 25, 201531 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wg68Po1w,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2015-01-25T07:27:28.941+0000)

.__. garen... I got bad news for you... you never where a wizard... your thinking of your sister...

Garen Y-YOU SHUT UP! I-I AM A WIZARD! A-AND A SUMMONER! RISE MY CREATURE! item 3512

Blue Moon WolfJan 25, 20155 votes

and I counter with MY CREATURE item 3512 kills each other ...huh...I don't know what i was expecting...

Rew711Jan 25, 201528 votes

Katarina Baby, I'm worried about your health. Doing handstand push-ups will not make you a wizard.

Garen Why did no one tell me?

Katarina Who would even tell you it would?

Lux *awkwardly walks by

JusticePauldronsJan 25, 20156 votes

Garen B-but... Dammit Kat! I AM A WIZARD! Jumps up I summon a giant sword from the sky! HOW IS THAT NOT MAGICAL?!

Katarina I thought your sword did that...

Garen What?! N-no...no it doesn't. It is me I say! With my pure... unimaginable, magical skill! does more handstand push-ups

A Superb VillainJan 25, 201531 votes

http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s306x306/e15/10890897_861940653863457_1213983720_n.jpg

I don't wanna know your name. And I do want your private number, baby. All I know is that to me You look like you're lots of fun Open up your loving arms Hear what's up, what's up.

I set my sights on you (and no one else will do) And I have got to have my way now, baby All I know is that to me You look like you're having fun Open up your loving arms Watch out, here I come

Veigar ♥ item 3128

NarasimhaJan 25, 201527 votes

I think they're trying to figure out exactly how to compensate him. I mean, you can't just give him more ratios, his are high enough as is. With Ahri, they just shifted her back to being a kite based mage. For Fizz, they poured more emphasis on his ult. Annie got some interesting utility on Tibbers. But what can you really do for Veigar?

Desmond LawJan 25, 201517 votes

Units stunned by event horizon receive 20% more damage

Rock RockburghJan 25, 20152 votes

20% is probably a bit much, given that you could potentially land it on the entire team. I'd say 10% at most, if you're going to do this.

Mindworm JimJan 25, 20156 votes

Perhaps if Dark Matter had a slightly reduced delay before it lands? Or maybe Event Horizon could slowly shrink over it's duration?

meatjunjunJan 25, 201528 votes

Event Horizon slowly shrinking would be so OP!!!

PikmintsJan 25, 20152 votes

If it would shrink to the point of closing, absolutely. A slight shrink would still be a questionable compensation if you ask me though.

I'm thinking they are going to need to make a dynamic change to his kit akin to this to make him more interesting. Possible ideas include Event Horizon shrinking (not closing) or spinning slowly over its duration, Dark Matter deals bonus damage if the targets hit aren't under the effects of cc, having Event Horizon amplify damage dealt from Veigar (not reducing targets MR to keep this from being a better Karthus wall), have Veigar's basic attacks apply a very minor but stacking MR debuff to incentivize prolonged fighting, and I'm sure there are many other possible ideas being thrown around.

And then there's always the design principles of giving him a skillshot ability/abilities so that they can have increased range or damage in return for the counterplay they would now have. Seeing as Veigar has 2 point and click burst spells on top of a cc spell that can easily keep most champs in range for it, counterplay is going to be something worth keeping in mind when his power gets brought up through whatever changes get made.

NarasimhaJan 25, 201510 votes

Maybe the Event Horizon one, I can't see them reducing the delay on DM simply because of how much damage it does. I mean, a 1.0 AP scaling non-ultimate ability is super rare these days, and for good reason.

What Is SmiteJan 25, 20152 votes

Fiora Q= 1.2 total AD ratio

Rinky DinkyJan 25, 201518 votes

Yes because you can get 1000 AD

BrutalCabbageJan 25, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I think they're trying to figure out exactly how to compensate him. I mean, you can't just give him more ratios, his are high enough as is. With Ahri, they just shifted her back to being a kite based mage. For Fizz, they poured more emphasis on his ult. Annie got some interesting utility on Tibbers. But what can you really do for Veigar?

Exactly my thoughts, they also already stated that they have plans to compensate him. Veigar has an old-ish design and has little counterplay, so it's very hard to buff him elsewhere without making him a pain to play against.

ModCaptainMårvelousJan 25, 201515 votes

"Right-click to pay respects"

RavenKouhaiJan 25, 201512 votes

I'd rather they just leave him be than "compensate" him like they did Ahri...

NullDragonJan 25, 201510 votes

Veigar is... kind of a toxic playstyle when he's good and viable.

I mean, he presses E to stun you for 2.5 seconds. And then he deletes you from the game. And gets a giant chunk of AP for it.

Like, imagine if Leblanc lost ALL of her mobility, but instead she got a 2.5 second instant stun plus a ton of free AP when she killed you on top of the gold. Just... bluh.

StephenizgodJan 25, 20159 votes

Meanwhile Mordekaiser cries in a corner, forgotten by all... forever...

CindikleJan 25, 20158 votes

Lower his overall mana costs. Q refunds mana cost if it kills a unit.

New passive of some sorts. Maybe "Damaging a target with two abilities deals 2/4/6/8% of their max HP as magic damage. (Levels 1/6/11/16). This will have a cooldown on the target it was cast on. New passive linked to his ulti. "Increases the damage of Baleful Strike by 10/20/30% AP." Aka a scaling increase.

They'll probably just make his early game safer/easier.

Painted CeltJan 25, 20157 votes

I agree that Veigar Veigar has been hit on a whole other level than Ahri Ahri or Fizz Fizz , both of whom would have been plenty viable and popular without any compensation buffs. Champions like Veigar and Mordekaiser , on the other hand, are just barely hanging onto the edge of being played at all... I actually made a thread trying to get some discussion going about the unnoticed sufferers from DFG's removal, but well... It went unnoticed (http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8YstKxGf-the-champion-most-hurt-by-dfgs-removal ). That thread mentions Veigar but is mostly about Mordekaiser.

Between the two, I actually think that Morde is a bit harder hit though, since he not only depended heavily on the burst for kill potential, but also has difficulty itemizing CDR unlike Veigar. At least Veigar can build a item 3165 or other CDR/Mana item to take care of his needs in that regard. Mordekaiser has very few choices to go into, and the loss of 10% CDR on DFG is not easily replaced for him.

I was really disgusted by the patch preview thread where Ahri was named as a priority for buffs, while it was noncommittally hinted that Veigar would get something in the timeframe of months from now to mid-season... Mordekaiser didn't even make his way into the original post, and when he was addressed, the Rioter just kind of said that he didn't consider Mordekaiser "fun" but that he might look into him at some point... Wow... Very assuring for Morde and Veigar players...

cFlameJan 25, 20156 votes

WTF is wrong with Rioters sometimes, ugh.

chosen gathererJan 25, 20154 votes

THEY SAID THEY WOULD GIVE COMPENSATION FOR ATMAS IMPALER still waiting...

junglerboy16Jan 25, 20155 votes

I think that is why they buffed Garen's passive and gave warmog's the out of combat healing increase. It seems really disconnected, but that's the only reason I can think of for Riot to buff Garen.

Jon HarringtonJan 25, 20154 votes

And I'm still sitting here very unhappy not accepting the removal of my favorite item... sword of divine item 3070

cFlameJan 25, 20153 votes

Honestly, Veigar needed that item in his build. It was exactly made for Veigar, and now what? Just build other burst varieties and hope bruisers that gank you die in a full combo normally? EDIT: (Bruisers under your own turret.)

ThelmonJan 25, 20151 votes

Maybe give him an item, like victor, that evolves with q stacks and eventually gets the dfg active?

RavenMagusJan 25, 201519 votes

Veigar doesn't need DFG. The ability to instantly kill someone with two point targeted abilities is fun for only half the people involved.

I'm not saying he doesn't currently rely on it - I'm agreeing that he needs compensation, but it shouldn't be in the form of a Veigar-only DFG.

RaptameiJan 25, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Veigar doesn't need DFG. The ability to instantly kill someone with two point targeted abilities is fun for only half the people involved.

Getting a kill in any way is fun for only half the people involved.

SecretAgentHulkJan 25, 20152 votes

The only counterplay for Veigar's Q and ult is "don't get close". That's not terribly fun to play against.

VardenSaladJan 25, 20155 votes

That's the counterplay for ADCs as well :/

SecretAgentHulkJan 25, 20151 votes

ADCs don't instagib you by pressing two buttons :/

VardenSaladJan 25, 20154 votes

The philosophy is exactly the same. Clearly, being someone that doesn't want to be hit, and getting in the range of someone who will hit you, produces poor results.

If Veigar was ACTUALLY broken, he would be in LCS every single week. If he was ACTUALLY freelo, he would have a high pick rate at top levels of play. Since neither of those two things have come to pass, a lot part of Veigar's strength comes from the misplaying situation by opponents.

WheatloafJan 25, 20153 votes

Though you feel a tiny bit better if your opponent did something beyond being in range and at their keyboard.

BloodpalyJan 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Maybe give him an item, like victor, that evolves with q stacks and eventually gets the dfg active?

But the dfgs needed to give him his mid game cause he doesn't have quite enough burst to instigib enough targets specially if they invest slightly in defense. DFG being built is about when Veigar turns into a threat and forces the enemy to invest hard into surviving instead of just a null magic mantle.

{quoted}

Veigar is... kind of a toxic playstyle when he's good and viable.

I mean, he presses E to stun you for 2.5 seconds. And then he deletes you from the game. And gets a giant chunk of AP for it.

Like, imagine if Leblanc lost ALL of her mobility, but instead she got a 2.5 second instant stun plus a ton of free AP when she killed you on top of the gold. Just... bluh.

Veigar's the most healthy and viable he has been in the history of league probably right now. ~48% win rate across most tiers, but seeing no competitive play.

Sneak DogJan 25, 20152 votes

Veigar's the most healthy and viable he has been in the history of league probably right now. ~48% win rate across most tiers, but seeing no competitive play.

Viable, sure, I guess. Healthy? He might be healthier more than ever, but he isn't healthy. He has an instant uncounterplayable 650 range 2.5s stun (hard to land, but relies only on skill of user and not skill of target at all) and two strong targeted uncounterplayable nukes.

RyludeJan 25, 20151 votes

For the ultimate, you can flash out of it or just use a skill to get out of it. And Yasuo's wind wall counters both of those nukes instantly.

Sneak DogJan 25, 20153 votes

The ultimate functions similar to an autoattack. It will hit you unless you Zhonya/Wind wall/Unbreakable it. The latter two are hardly generic counterplay (only works if you have one of two champions on your team) and the first forces Veigar to stun you before ulting you.

You can't flash a Veigar ult and you can't flash a Veigar cage if he just plants it right on top of you.

AudiomancyJan 25, 20153 votes

DFG removal hurts his mid game quite a bit and nerfs his late slightly (more for the stats than the active at that point), so why not give him some help early? Even with a Morello's and Veigar's passive, it's still pretty easy to run out of mana just by last hitting with your Q.

Karn BishopJan 26, 20153 votes

What about the champion who had her entire kit destroyed because of DFG? The invisible goddess evelynn, after all their entire justification for making her ult the way it is now was herp derp dfg makes it too strong.

MAZZ1M0Jan 25, 20152 votes

Increasing his mana regen on the passive would be nice.

lojicianJan 27, 20152 votes

Riot said they would give compensation for gutting doran's shield and randuins if they needed to followed by 6 months of nothing. Riot says a lot of things.

kDrakariJan 25, 20151 votes

It may be that they're planning to do more substantial work on Veigar in the future, so they don't want to risk him becoming viable in the short-term.

At least, that seems to be the way Riot acts with champions they've deemed to have "outdated" playstyles.

DirewolfiezJan 25, 20154 votes

Oh, dear God, no. They already "reworked" Sona; they better keep their goddamn hands off of Veigar. I won't have any fun semi-unviable champs to play in Team Builder anymore D:

JefftiffyJan 26, 20151 votes

Ok. All the people claiming you need DFG. I main Veigar no DFG. Build order

item 1056 -> item 3028 / item 3070 -> /-> item 3174 -> item 3003 -> item 3020 -> item 3089 -> item 3135 ->whatever you need for your situation.

summoner 7 summoner 4 . Because you will rarely need ignite or even be in range that long and TP is just weird on him and doesn't solve his pre-6 problems of being bullied/bursted. Barrier is almost always worse than heal (permanent health OP).

It works fine and plays him how he is supposed to while amping his overall damage instead of relying on straight burst to kill single person (which he can already do without DFG fine) and lets him properly pop multiple targets and bring a lot more utility than a simple cheese move.

BloodpalyJan 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Ok. All the people claiming you need DFG. I main Veigar no DFG. Build order

-> / -> /-> -> -> -> -> ->whatever you need for your situation.

. Because you will rarely need ignite or even be in range that long and TP is just weird on him and doesn't solve his pre-6 problems of being bullied/bursted. Barrier is almost always worse than heal (permanent health OP).

It works fine and plays him how he is supposed to while amping his overall damage instead of relying on straight burst to kill single person (which he can already do without DFG fine) and lets him properly pop multiple targets and bring a lot more utility than a simple cheese move.