What if Yasuo windwall costed flow to cast?

iLBGAMing·Oct 29, 2017·192 votes·7,184 views

#Yasuo Change Ideas:

Idea 1:

Yasuo can cast Windwall as long as he has some sort of amount of flow but the duration depends on how much flow Yasuo had upon casting the ability.

#Or

Idea 2:

Removed - INTENT: Yasuo gains double the critical strike chance from all sources but his basic attacks and Steel Tempest Steel Tempest respectively deal 90% and 75% damage when Critical strike icon critically striking.

E: Sweeping Blade

NEW Passive: Yasuo gains 10% Critical Strike chance per cast of this ability for 5 seconds.

Max gain: 50%

#Or

Idea 3:

W: Wind wall

NEW: No longer blocks ultimate abilities.

243 Comments

MelledoneusOct 29, 201751 votes

Sigh We've been over this, guys.

The only viable nerf to Yasuo is a muzzle so his "Hasagi"s are muffled.

ZapMyHeartOct 29, 201711 votes

{quoted}

Sigh We've been over this, guys.

The only viable nerf to Yasuo is a muzzle so his "Hasagi"s are muffled.

Can we just make him a mute swordsman instead? It would add onto his edgelord theme.

BeatzBoyFTWOct 30, 20175 votes

Talon Now where's my "Cutthroat" ability Rito...

Hovering HentaiOct 29, 201726 votes

Yea I hate him but step back a minute and think about this. If it did cost flow then all junglers would have to do to gank is wait for their laner to just auto him once and remove the shield then they'd come in and he wouldnt be able to use the ability making the skill completely redundant

iLBGAMingOct 29, 20176 votes

I mean I agree with what you are saying, but i'm guessing this change wouldn't be any better if his flow generated faster?

What if he can cast it as long as he has any amount of flow? But the duration of the windwall would depend on how much flow Yasuo had upon casting the ability?

Hovering HentaiOct 29, 20176 votes

Well in that case it would just mean his shield would charge faster and he'd be able to trade more often

kalima994Oct 29, 201710 votes

They should make it so he has to choose between the shield and the wall tbh. I don't know how but I doubt it's impossible

HibekiOct 30, 20174 votes

How about casting at max flow gives the windwall, and casting it without max flow gives the shield amount of that flow?

Shuyin178Oct 29, 201717 votes

It's actually not a bad idea. Costs 100 Flow to cast, so it makes Yasuo decide between his shield or the wall. I mean, it's not like he gets full Flow when he ults or anything to get the shield back mid-fight, oh wait.....

iLBGAMingOct 29, 20173 votes

Hmmm

Shuyin178Oct 29, 201713 votes

I like the idea. It makes Yasuo have to actually be smart.

iLBGAMingOct 29, 20175 votes

I'm kinda glad that someone actually thinks about it instead of just simply saying yes that it's a bad idea.

Thanks for the opinion dude, appreciated.

PoskeOct 29, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I'm kinda glad that someone actually thinks about it instead of just simply saying yes that it's a bad idea.

Thanks for the opinion dude, appreciated.

This idea has been suggested so many times

0 times yasuo players responded positively

inplaneOct 29, 20174 votes

{quoted}

This idea has been suggested so many times

0 times yasuo players responded positively

Of course they're not going to respond positively. It's a nerf to their favourite champ.

PoskeOct 29, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Of course they're not going to respond positively. It's a nerf to their favourite champ.

They would respond positively if this idea wasnt bad

I am yasuo main myself. This wouldnt even get past PBE due to uproar on boards / reddit

inplaneOct 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

They would respond positively if this idea wasnt bad

I am yasuo main myself. This wouldnt even get past PBE due to uproar on boards / reddit

And that's where the problems kick in. Defining what is a "Good" or "Bad" change will constantly vary, especially with a playerbase as large as Yasuo 's if we're trying to get their opinion as well.

PoskeOct 29, 20176 votes

{quoted}

And that's where the problems kick in. Defining what is a "Good" or "Bad" change will constantly vary, especially with a playerbase as large as 's if we're trying to get their opinion as well.

Gating yasuo in such fashion would require compensations which you wouldnt like.

your change also makes yasuo extremly unfun to play

Non yasuo main shouldnt ever suggest nerfs for yasuo due to having no credability when it comes to him

KarunamonOct 29, 20175 votes

Non yasuo main shouldnt ever suggest nerfs for yasuo due to having no credability when it comes to him

Yasuo mains shouldnt ever suggest anything for yasuo due to having a conflict of interest when it comes to him.

This logic of yours goes nowhere good my friend.

DunkinNoobsOct 29, 20179 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo mains shouldnt ever suggest anything for yasuo due to having a conflict of interest when it comes to him.

This logic of yours goes nowhere good my friend.

Yasuo haters shouldnt ever suggest anything for yasuo due to having a conflict of interest when it comes to him.

This logic of yours goes nowhere good my friend.

Sraeg2013Oct 29, 201710 votes

It's been suggested many times and only haters responded positively.

Sraeg2013Oct 30, 201717 votes

It's stupidly easy to remove his shield. There's nothing "smart" about it, against a decent opponent the shield has 0 uptime aka it's popped the moment it recharges.

SEKAIOct 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's stupidly easy to remove his shield. There's nothing "smart" about it, against a decent opponent the shield has 0 uptime aka it's popped the moment it recharges.

The shield lasts several seconds in effect once it's 'popped', it doesn't just do a flash and then disappear into the abyss, you know. So the uptime can be reduced, but it obviously can never be 0, especially not when it also recharges so fast while we're at it.

Sraeg2013Oct 30, 20171 votes

Several seconds?

The shield last exactly 1 (ONE, UNO, ICHI, EINS) second unless it tanks enough damage to break sooner and begins with a 17 seconds recharge time assuming constant dashing and scales down to about 10 seconds with levels, movement speed and points in Sweeping Dash.

Nearly every champion with a shield can shield themselves way more often (10 seconds at rank 1 being the most common), do it on demand and for way longer.

SEKAIOct 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Several seconds?

The shield last exactly 1 (ONE, UNO, ICHI, EINS) second unless it tanks enough damage to break sooner and begins with a 17 seconds recharge time assuming constant dashing and scales down to about 10 seconds with levels, movement speed and points in Sweeping Dash.

Nearly every champion with a shield can shield themselves way more often (10 seconds at rank 1 being the most common), do it on demand and for way longer.

I was wrong to say that it lasts "several" seconds.

But you're also wrong in completely ignoring that Yasuo's shield is on top of his lane mobility, multi-stage ranged pokes, resoureceless-ness so his entire kit doesn't have any resource cost, the low CD across the board, and another windwall that blocks all projectiles.

So no, it's not easy to just remove his shield, because that mechanic itself is already an overkill on a champ who has minuscule amount of windows to have a shot at interacting with them without getting negated or bullied back somehow, no matter which type of champ you are (melee can ignore the windwall but most can't deal with his supreme lane mobility and the fact he's both resourcelss and function on almost no CD; ranged then have it worse).

When you consider all of the above factors, yes, a free shield every 10 or so seconds is too much (let's face it, Yasuo doesn't need 17 seconds to recharge the shield; in higher levels, Yasuo is fully capable of using shield more than once in the middle of a long teamfight without ulti).

Sraeg2013Oct 30, 20171 votes

But you're also wrong in completely ignoring that Yasuo's shield is on top of his lane mobility, multi-stage ranged pokes, resoureceless-ness so his entire kit doesn't have any resource cost, the low CD across the board, and another windwall that blocks all projectiles.

It requires a single basic attack to access his low base stats. Outside his 3rd Q he has next to no ranged capabilities. Resourcelessness while possibly frustrating is still more balanced than the one of the likes of Katarina whom everybody is adamant is a great and healthy champion. And Windwall requires... stepping to the side, disengaging or pressing the advantage.

So no, it's not easy to just remove his shield, because that mechanic itself is already an overkill on a champ who has minuscule amount of windows to have a shot at interacting with them without getting negated or bullied back somehow, no matter which type of champ you are (melee can ignore the windwall but most can't deal with his supreme lane mobility and the fact he's both resourcelss and function on almost no CD; ranged then have it worse).

No, those things are unrelated. It literally requires a basic attack of any strength to make his shield a non-factor. Ranged champions have a stupidly easy time removing his shield, unless he blocks the attempt with a Windwall and which point he loses twice at the same time.

When you consider all of the above factors, yes, a free shield every 10 or so seconds is too much (let's face it, Yasuo doesn't need 17 seconds to recharge the shield; in higher levels, Yasuo is fully capable of using shield more than once in the middle of a long teamfight without ulti).

If you'd bother reading my comment instead of producing this mini wall'o'text, you'd know I said it STARTS with a 17 second cooldown and GOES DOWN to about 10 seconds later.

SEKAIOct 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

It requires a single basic attack to access his low base stats. Outside his 3rd Q he has next to no ranged capabilities. Resourcelessness while possibly frustrating is still more balanced than the one of the likes of Katarina whom everybody is adamant is a great and healthy champion. And Windwall requires... stepping to the side, disengaging or pressing the advantage.

Nice list of conveniently forgotten things.

You forgot that the shield lasts 1 second after being triggered.
You forgot that he has immense mobility in lane to jump in and out of fight and reposition for both low range and high range Q.
You forgot that Katarina has comparatively much higher CD than Yasuo without triggering the conditional refresh that is gated behind a specific kind of takedowns. And that's saying something because you know, it's fucking Kat we're comparing him to?
You forgot that windwall has a fucking surface area, cast from Yasuo himself (hence most popularly used to "block" a spell that's ALREADY hit) so likely it has already blocked whatever critical spells you were just throwing at him, lingers around after being cast for some time, is omnidirectional, has a big ass hitbox, and all of the factors above that also play into the strength of the windwall with the sole exclusion of its CD which is the only saving grace from having Yasuo being completely broken.

No, those things are unrelated. It literally requires a basic attack of any strength to make his shield a non-factor. Ranged champions have a stupidly easy time removing his shield, unless he blocks the attempt with a Windwall and which point he loses twice at the same time.

You talk as if Yasuo is just a champ who nothing in his kit but a periodic shield. Read the above.

If you'd bother reading my comment instead of producing this mini wall'o'text, you'd know I said it STARTS with a 17 second cooldown and GOES DOWN to about 10 seconds later.

No, maybe you should read. Because all it says is that (background knowledge Yasuo's passive does not have a CD) you do not need 17 seconds to recharge it in low levels, and in high levels it doesn't need 10. It's more like 10 seconds in low levels, and whatever low number it is in high levels, as Yasuo is entirely able to regen his shield within the same teamfight without ulti in late game.

.............

Again, the point isn't that shield is exclusively the problem, but rather a combination of all of his kit designs makes him utterly obnoxious with minuscule size of meaningful countering window for his opponents. The shield is just the icing on the cake and by far the easiest to target and address without simply remaking the damn champion from the ground up.

Sraeg2013Oct 30, 20178 votes

A change like that would mean that it'd be only possible to use Windwall in two situations:

When Yasuo comes back to lane/was out of fight for 15+ seconds.
When he ults in a 1v1 without cannon/super minions/monsters around.

Use your head once in a while before spouting bullshit.

TehNACHOOct 29, 201715 votes

Nooooooooo.

In the first place, he's not even strong Mid Lane right now, he's succeeding in Top Lane; many of his favorable matchups not even being dependant on one hit wonder projectiles. This would be an absolutely backward balancing tool right now.

Also, he's weak. That's a fact. If you're going to gut his defenses this badly he MUST receive some sort of compensation. Are we just going to raise his base damages to the point he becomes an obnoxious Bruiser again, or are you going to spike his scaling so he becomes ridiculously feast or famine? Or are you just going to increase his base defensive stats, ultimately defeating the purpose of this change?

This is a short sighted solution that only barely solves a short sighted problem.

NhifuOct 29, 20171 votes

Agreed Yasuo is gimp as shit mid

He's probably even more useful as a support than he his in mid; There's not much he can do to players tower sitting, and the roams mean nothing.

I remember playing a Heim game mid when the enemy yas ran mid randomly (I 100-0'd him in like 3 seconds) LOL

ChuShoeOct 29, 20173 votes

That just sounds like an incredibly dumb player.

I don't understand what kind of idiot would just walk straight into the league equivalent of TF2's engie nest.

DunkinNoobsOct 29, 201714 votes

Oh hey, this stupid idea again. Yes, I'd love if 1 of my abilities was unusable whenever my shield is down which is the majority of the time.

iLBGAMingOct 29, 20172 votes

"Idea Update: Yasuo can cast Windwall as long as he has some sort of amount of flow but the duration depends on how much flow Yasuo had upon casting the ability."

You can still use it, but the duration depends on how much flow he has at the cast of the ability.

DunkinNoobsOct 29, 20175 votes

So you have no windwall if your shield just got poked off. I hope every ranged champ doesn't all in me at that point.

ChuShoeOct 29, 20174 votes

[deleted]

DunkinNoobsOct 29, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Do you know how quickly his flow is actually charged up? I swear, it's almost like some yas mains don't understand their champion in the slightest..

I do actually. It's about 16 seconds of continuous movement during the laning phase. That's a really long time to not be able to wall anything.

ChuShoeOct 29, 20172 votes

[deleted]

DunkinNoobsOct 29, 20179 votes

I understand what his idea is. It's just a stupid and unjustified idea.

Ahri BakaOct 30, 201710 votes

Hell no , as a mages main who gets to play vs Yasuo mains everyday , this will destroy Yasuo , I mean , I just need to Basic Attack and he will lose his flow ? no way lol , even if it costs like 20 from 100 . it would also be hard for him since I can bait his shield passive with a single basic attack , I'm thankful that a basic attack is enough to blow his shield after few seconds instead of having to use abilities and make him unkillable anyway , I would suggest making his wind wall stays shorter and making it does't block the Abilities that already reached him , and maybe nerfing his E would be cool too. btw am I the only one who fears Talon more than Yasuo ? Seriously , both are tanky for mages but Talon is more scary xD

DurzakaOct 30, 20175 votes

On paper, this might sound like a good idea, but if you actually look at what this change would do it makes zero sense.

What this change does is it completely removes one of Yasuo's defensive tools. With 0 compensation.

Yasuo might be irritating to lane against, but he is NOT overpowered right now. This change would dumpster him, easily bring him to the lowest win rate in the entire game. (har har, I hate Yasuo he should be dumpster,).

On top of that, it removes control of his own kit. He no longer gets to control his abilities because simply doing what is required against Yasuo (harassing one in a while with an AA), completely deletes his Windwall from his kit.

His entire system of Flow would have to be completely reworked. Because with the current system he has no control over sitting at 100 Flow if he wants to to maintain the potential for a full powered Windwall.

iLBGAMingOct 30, 20171 votes

Tbh I don't think having Yasuo go down would be a bad idea, don't get me wrong I don't want it to happen because I know the frustration when your favourite champion is not in the best state but so what? I mean look at these champions.. Ryze Aatrox Nocturne Rengar Udyr Skarner .

Yasuo has been played for many season's, and he wasn't ever considered that bad even with everything that was done to him. Pro's would still know how to play him well, this change would help to bring out other champions who aren't doing too well right now.

DurzakaOct 30, 20174 votes

Thats not even remotely true. Yasuo does not see as much pro play anymore because he is very easy to exploit/play around if your team is coordinated.

We are long gone from Yasuo being a strong pick at a pro level.

Just because champions exist that are in a bad state (Ryze is questionable, but whatever), does not mean you should just dumpster another champion that is fine right now (sitting at 50% win rate top, and 49% win rate mid).

For fucks sake, Yasuo isnt even being played mid anymore. His most common role right now is top. And all this change would do is dumpster his midlane even more.

Dabrick01Oct 30, 20174 votes

Not that simple.

if you do that, then his entire shield might as well be removed. In that case, the armor pen on his ulti and his double crit passive would have to give as well.

I don't know if you remember Tanksuo, but that shit was broken. While it seems like the windwall and his passive shield are unfair, it is actually what keeps him from building tank: item 3078 item 3022 item 3748 item 3111 item 3026 mainly.

When that happened, it was awful for everyone, and Yasuo became hated for some reason.

Tanksuo didn't show that Yasuo was broken and could do dmg with any build.

It showed that he needs survivability, as well as an incentive to build crit.

Also, if you are stupid enough that you can't time his WW or bait it out.

Dont play a champ with a blockable ulti.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Faceroll TacticsOct 30, 20173 votes

Can we please just stop talking about yasuo?

Past silver 5 he is absolute garbage, I’m sick of hearing about this “broken” champion all the time

Rıots Bad ClientOct 30, 20174 votes

what sounds like nerfs, might be a blessing in disguise for yas mains. He could actually have bigger windows of counterplay. meaning we can buff his strength without being completely frustrating to play.

Its not that Yasuo is 'Broken' Just sucks the fun out of the game. For both teams. Win or lose.

KloqdqOct 30, 20173 votes

I've always been a fan of turning windwall into just a single slash more akin to Fiora's Riposte - without all the stupid debuffs of course. It really lowers the worst aspect of winwall, the long lasting wall. A single slash rewards timing and skill more rather than just a fart of wind that is so stupidly large and lasts for like 5 seconds.

VelasanOct 30, 20173 votes

Why not just make Windwall only block abilities or autos instead of both? Like Jax's dodge helicopter thing.