Ya Lord and Savior RNJesus 
Yeah both Pantheon and Irelia could use some polish, make them shinier and more fun, but we still haven't changed this guy? Sure he may be the God of Low Elo crushing, but that makes him worthless in competitive.
If he is going to stay this way, please tell us. If not, please tell us. I wanna know.
Ralanr31 votesI think Riot just has no good ideas on what to do with him.
Elewd4 votesProbably, like what can you do with him other than rework his shout? his Ulti and spin are iconic to him, and his high critrate is kinda his thing as well, its just been so long its hard to change him.
500000000000000015 votesThat's the same with the old Poppy, though. If Riot thinks he's problematic enough, he'll probably get a full VGU. Although, I'm not sure if Riot thinks he's problematic enough.
Narasimha2 votesHe's a problem, he's just not a big enough problem, especially compared to other champions. He's infuriating, but thats mostly it.
NiceTryVi1 votesmake it a flat crit once below a certain percent, such as gains 30% crit once below 33% hp, like how poppy's armor and MR from her w doubles when shes below 40%. His ulti needs to not give him full fury and either be reduced to a 3 sec duration or make it so it cant be cast under CC. This way he still holds his status as low health fighter with a lifesaving ulti, but it makes it alot harder for him to dive you with impunity and then get out with enough hp that he can just lifesteal back up off the wave without fear of a gank.
Elewd3 votesthats just a flat nerf, a rework needs to fix problems and make them more balanced. However there is a way they can fix it, make him deal bonus damage based on his rage, up to 50% bonus damage when he's at max rage.
ShaolinToilet2 votesDo you really think he needs nerfs
NiceTryVi1 votesAbsolutely.
ShaolinToilet1 votesHe has so many counters
NiceTryVi1 votesName them, and how. I'll wait.
ShaolinToilet1 votesTaric from his ult. Morgana from her q and her ult. Sions whole kit counters him. Ryze Teemo. Quinn, Jax, jayce all shit on him in lane and become more useful than him. Malphite and rammus because of armor. Dont believe me? Go look up winrates.
NiceTryVi1 votesTaris from his ult thats takes 2.5 seconds to fire after being cast, Morg Q and ult that he can spin away from easily, Sion's kit doesnt counter him at all. Sion has to channel for a second to get the knockup, which is easily dodged, his slow is not good at all agaisnt Tryn, his ult only allows him to run away, his sheild is negligible. Ryze is not good top, neither is Quinn. Jax right now is weak, and so is Jayce. Malphite cant do shit to tryn if the tryn is smart and rammus is absolute crap right now. Next "counters", please.
ShaolinToilet1 votesI can't believe how biased you are. Look up the stats for all of the layers I mentioned vs tryn. They all dominate him. If you can't q a tryn as more then you are bad. Tarics ult takes 2.5 seconds meaning tryn has to go through all your cc and kill your carries in that time. Quinn is not good top?! She is played top 57% of the time.
NiceTryVi1 votesI'm done arguing with you. You claim I am biased but then everything you say is claiming he is shitty with no acceptance of any other facts.
SpecterVonBaren3 votesThey could change his passive with something like Jhin's in that it modifies his AA's. Make it have his auto attacks be a set speed but cleave in a large arc like he's actually swinging that huge sword he drags around.
Hryna12 votesYou mean change Mark as the company president? Kappa
RisenDarkKnight15 votesI mean they've changed Ryze, the cofounder multiple times.
Hryna2 votesI don't think he has Mark's overinflated ego :^)
Borbland10 votesWe dont need a Tryndamere rework, we need a critical strike rework.
La Barbotte9 votes
those guys should also get some
some need to have REAL reworks instead of the garbo filler reworks they received and others need to be straight up given a reason to be picked over a competitor for simply having better numbers
IPromiseTomorrow3 votesIdk About Ziggs I'm not a credible source of information on Ziggs but I heard of his on-hit build that got him superfed.
I forgot the whole build but this isn't related to him not needing a few touches on his kit.
I'm just wanting some clarity as to way the hell did that work.
BoilTheOil14 votesnever seen this ever
Requiemsfire4 votesIf you're going that way, I personally wouldn't bother with black cleaver since you're doing magic damage.
Stars Shaper2 votes
instead of BC
Hawkefire9 votesZiggs seems fine imho, Rammus is also fine, although he could use some touch ups so that he can clear the jungle a tad easier/faster (perhaps make his passive do bonus damage against neutral monsters?).
Sejuani is also fine, just needs number buffs if anything.
The rest I sort-of agree with, although I am not sure on Garen, if anything I think he could just use some number buffs and his core items need to be un-nerfed.
NiceTryVi5 votesGaren has a buff in the PBE right now where if he hits an enemy with 4 ticks of his spin they lose 25% of their armor for 6 seconds. This seems like a good buff to keep him current imo, and makes him a much better fighter.
Quacker22 votesEspecially poor Xin....that new Camille chick's ultimate completely replaces Xin's ultimate.
Mr Noggenfogger3 votesNo it doesn't. Camille traps the target, making sure they can't run away. She also gets bonus damage on hit when she ults. Xin's does damage, doesn't trap the target, and gives armour and mr scaling with the amount of champions hit, This makes Xin's better in team fights, where as Camille's is better in 1v1s or 2v2s
Troy2426218 votesRNGamere could use some work.
MasterOfMetaI5 votesStill waiting for the Morde rework Feelsbadman
MLDzXnRRR5 votes
cries.
Critmaster Garen5 voteshe crushes low elo because people are incapable of coordinating themselves in a team to shut him down.
he crushes high elo because of his laning and splitpushing.
either way. yes. he desparately needs a rework moreso than irelia or pantheon.
lightdragoon884 votes **But he my greatest work. **
Candoodle4 votes Yes riot, rework that guy, ignore the boy and his yeti, nothing to see here
Sona Ping2 votesTryndamere is fine. Last I heard, he's better than he has been previously.
Also, the playerbase keeps complaining about balancing for competitive anyway, so why buff for competitive.
Irelia Bot12 votesBecause getting RNG double crit at level 2 is a healthy experience...
Sona Ping3 votes"Because getting true damage and healing at level 2 is a health experience..."
See? You can do that with anyone.
Irelia Bot15 votesYou know that will happen with Irelia
You don't know if RNGesus will give trynda a double or triple crit at level 2 when he has half a bar. It is unreliable and greatly decides the outcome of lane as to if it happens or does not happen.
Sona Ping4 votesI don't know if minion aggro will randomly give Irelia slightly lower health, so she gets a stun instead and can freely damage me, chunking me out, and greatly deciding the lane either.
You can do this with anyone.
Irelia Bot5 votesLast I checked that is playing to a champ's strengths.
Sona Ping4 votesExactly, that is playing to a champion's strength.
You can do this with anyone. Anybody can list out some strength and act like it is grossly unfair. For bonus points, they can do things like call it "toxic" (that word is popular nowadays) or make up contrived scenarios that are impossible to do anything about because they said so.
You play 
, you know that people do this. So I believe you are informed enough to recognize the pattern and know when people are doing this about another champion and how bullshit it is.
Bradley Dragon2 votes[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WRlwbN12,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-26T11:55:29.773+0000)
Exactly, that is playing to a champion's strength.
You can do this with anyone. Anybody can list out some strength and act like it is grossly unfair. For bonus points, they can do things like call it "toxic" (that word is popular nowadays) or make up contrived scenarios that are impossible to do anything about because they said so.
You play
tbf i think that irelia gets a lot of hate due to her stun being bugged. i swear every time she stuns be me it is for a random amount between 2 and 4 seconds.
SavageConcordia1 votesIt's almost like the stun duration scales with points in E.
AgentBlack2 votesYou are so not on the same page, lol.
Sona Ping2 votesWell, the thing is, I believe we are. I'm just trying to convince people to look at the page numbers.
Ariel the Cruel12 votesYou can see when a champion takes minion aggro. You can also see other champions' heath bars. The only warning that crit gives is that it's more likely to occur every time it doesn't. That doesn't help you know when it is going to occur though.
However, this is a problem with crit chance in general. Trynd's problem is that he is entirely reliant on it.
Sona Ping6 votes[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WRlwbN12,comment-id=000400000000000000000002,timestamp=2016-11-26T08:34:17.209+0000)
You can see when a champion takes minion aggro. You can also see other champions' heath bars. The only warning that crit gives is that it's more likely to occur every time it doesn't. That doesn't help you know when it is going to occur though.
There is more warning than that. You can see his fury bar. You can manipulate his fury bar through playing back at it. I can take advantages based upon that. I can gain experience about the match-up. I can learn when his window's of opportunity are and when mine are in that match-up. I can learn when he has advantageous trades and when I do. And you can do all this with crit chance.
Anybody can list out an aspect of a champion and act like it is grossly unfair. But if a player doesn't know when trades are favorable for one or the other or underestimates the potential damage of a trade or all-in, that's a misplay. I could complain that (old) LeBlanc jumps on me as Lux and removes my health without warning and that's unfair, maybe toss in the words "mobility creep" to get people to agree with me. Or I could complain that Lux hits me as LeBlanc with damage from across the lane and that I go oom if I trade back, maybe toss in "power creep" to get people to agree with me when I get hit with a combo while hanging around when I'm in kill range. But I would rather play both and learn the match-up.
Other people don't. I've seen Tryndamere threads on here; 70% of them are "He keeps splitpushing! He can't do that!" as if it is against the rules to not "group up" and then ARAM mid all game, and the 30% are slightly more sophisticated, and mentions his crit chance, unfortunately, usually in the terms of he crits from nowhere and that's toxic and unfair. Well no, it doesn't; it comes from his fury bar which we spent the last thirty seconds watching him constantly AA the minion wave to build up, and it's the other guy's fault for not doing anything before or after this. So let's not say it there is no warning.
However, this is a problem with crit chance in general. Trynd's problem is that he is entirely reliant on it.
That's not true. If Tryndamere really is entirely reliant on lucky crits, like the threads say, or entirely reliant on crit chance in general, why do the top Tryndamere players keep building things like Ravenous Hydra, Blade of the Ruined King, and Black Cleaver? Shouldn't they be rushing IE and 100% crit if he is entirely reliant criting? Tryndamere is reliant on pressuring the map which low elo players suck at dealing with and that explains the threads we get for certain champions.
Ariel the Cruel3 votesTryndamere gains 0.35% crit chance per point of fury - maxing out at 35%. With even 1 point of fury, Tryndamere has the potential to crit. The RNG nature of crit means he also has the potential to crit multiple times. With a full bar he is more likely but is not guaranteed to crit. That's the heart of the problem. LB has cooldowns and mana costs. [Old] LB's burst came out fast, but you at least knew when it couldn't happen. Crit doesn't have that luxury. So long as there is any crit chance, every AA can crit at any time. It's not something you can play around, you can only pray to RNGesus.
. . .top Tryndamere players. . .
I don't pay attention to high elo streams (or streams in general) to see what they do. If I were to guess: Cleaver/BotRK: Tanks are the most likely to intercept him. Those items counter defense stats. Hydra: Improved wave-clear for his split-push shenanigans. No IE: Critting every (Statistical average) 3ed AA is still quite a bit, and crits don't proc on structures (Jhin excluded).
70% of them are "He keeps splitpushing! He can't do that!"
I never said anything about split-pushing. It's annoying, not problematic.
wiggywonka1 voteswho said irelia and panth was getting a rework
Toastersaot7 votes[{quoted}](name=Opposite mama,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WRlwbN12,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-11-26T05:50:06.333+0000)
who said irelia and panth was getting a rework
Riot Reav3 made a small board post a while back. I feel you look up some videos on YouTube talking about future reworks you might find the original post.