Whine all you want, I don't see how 5% missing hp heal per auto with 60-110% bonus AS isn't strong

SzGamer227··3 votes·1,215 views

With all the whining about how Aatrox has been "gutted" I can't help but look at the numbers and think that Aatrox now has some very particular strengths that noone seems to be capitalizing on.

Can someone tell my why building to the effect of item 3071 item 3748 item 3053 item 3065 item 3742 wouldn't give Aatrox incredible sustain and significant damage by using the 110% bonus attack speed from Ult + Passive to abuse his on-hit 5% missing health heal and max-health-scaling Titanic Hydra proc?

The majority of what I see people complaining about is that his passive is hard to use now, but it's resource management, albeit a type of resource management that has never been done before. Nobody is good at it yet, and a hell of a lot of people sound like they're giving up after one try, let alone trying to practice and get good at it before making a solid judgement.

DISCLAIMER: I have not played Aatrox since the patch. I have not experienced how he works in-game for myself and this is purely theorycrafting, and I'm not going to try because I don't own him, and because I'm godawful at timing and resource management and would fail to abuse his strengths anyways. But I have a strong feeling that nobody is justified in saying that Aatrox has been gutted or that he's been nerfed into the ground when nobody knows how to exploit Aatrox's new tools, and if a few dedicated Aatrox mains get good at managing his passive, people are going to realize that he's (at the very least) not as terrible as the boards make him out to be.

If you're going to say "there's know way you could know you haven't even played Aatrox" then I'm going to tell you that I seriously doubt you know any more than I do. Unless you've come from two or three patches in the future where no powerful new Aatrox builds have emerged and the people who've learned how to play new Aatrox still have a bad win rate, there's no way you can nake an accurate assessment of how bad Aatrox is, because he's been out for less than a day and there's no way you're playing perfectly to his new strengths or using his passive mechanics to their fullest potential.

I'm prepared for the downvotes from the "Aatrox sucks" people but I'm hopeful that someone will at least see where I'm coming from with this.

You gotta love the downvote bots who don't leave comments though. /s

26 Comments

Big Lincoln4 votes

it's per 3 autos, not for every auto

I don't think Aatrox is bad though. Maybe his numbers are weak but I think this kit is a lot better than the original one

DarkLordArbitur3 votes

Simple answer: his passive is fucking impossible to stack, even with cdr. The stacks don't stick when out of combat, and when in combat, if you don't want the passive to go off just yet, you're limited in your capabilities. He only gets his passive refreshed when attacking champions while it's actually up, and his base attack speed is so garbage that even running my max atk speed rune page i needed two full items to get his W to heal him adequately while his ult and passive were down.

TL;DR - His passive is impossible to abuse.

SzGamer2271 votes

Saying "impossible" isn't very convincing. Your ult grants 20% Blood Well per enemy champion hit by the initial cast, which means you only need 40-60% of your Blood Well filled when you dive into a team fight as long as you don't miss your ult. I've whiffed Illaoi ults before, but Aatrox has a gap closer and his ult covers 50% more area, so I seriously doubt that it's hard to use your ult to activate your passive and get the combined bonus AS benefits.

DarkLordArbitur1 votes

I've been playing him nonstop since I got back from work. He's only going to get anything out of your proposed build if you can get the enemy to stand still long enough to kill them. Otherwise, you'll get kited all day.

SzGamer2271 votes

Illaoi gets kited all day. Illaoi has a 50% win rate. Darius gets kited all day. Darius has a 51% win rate. Point being: even if you have zero mobility, there are ways to circumvent being kited and sustain yourself long enough to get momentum during a fight (Illaoi and Darius both have a % max/missing health heal as part of their kit; Aatrox has the same). Except Aatrox isn't even completely immobile; he has a dash to escape or engage on whoever is kiting him, on top of being rewarded for building like a Juggernaut by having sustain that scales with health.

If you're having problems being kited, learn how to deal with kite from champs like Darius or Illaoi, then see if your argument that Aatrox can be kited holds up.

If Bruiser/Juggernaut Aatrox becomes the way to build and play, I could very well see myself learnign and playing him, because I have a lot of fun with champions like Darius and Illaoi, and Aatrox is shaping up to be in the same vein of gameplay style.

DarkLordArbitur3 votes

Aatrox being kited has nothing to do with how juggernauts work and everything to do with how everything in his kit allows him to engage and then just kind of leaves him hanging. Illaoi and darius have access to everything they need to keep an enemy in one place and do everything they have to do. Aatrox's abilities rely on him being either as strong or stronger than his opponent. His heals are gated behind a 3 proc system, as opposed to "land ability per champ, heal that much" like darius and illaoi have. It may technically have a lower cooldown, but that doesnt stop Illaoi from healing more than a soraka with 45% cdr and 2 healing active items. My point is that aatrox's passive, while useful, can easily be circumvented by locking him down and getting away from him for any length of time. Once that happens, his entire window of power is gone, and he has to build it back up from scratch again. No amount of "git gud skrub" will fix that issue for him without forcing him to build a qss or bring cleanse in order to allow his passive to be used.

SzGamer2271 votes

Just going to point out that Illaoi has absolutely no cc other than a brief slow form her Test of Spirit if she kills the spirit (she would just kill the champion itself if she could) or if they leave the radius of the spirit (in which case they're really far away).

Also pointing out that Illaoi can be shut down if you lock her down while her ult is active and Darius can be shut down if you lock him down while his Noxian Might expires, or better yet, shutting him down by not letting him get 5 stacks against any one champion.

If you're adamant, I'm not going to fight a losing battle. Just going to say that Aatrox's rework leaves him a lot closer to the Juggernaut play style, with a strong and reliable form of engage that strays from the pattern but a lack of reliable AoE damage to counter that. That's where I'll leave it.

Shuyin1782 votes

That build is the best build for him currently. The mindless attack speed build is wrong because he ends up to squish to be of any use.

DarkLordArbitur2 votes

That's the thing though. I built bloodrazor into sv and randuins and STILL was completely ineffective. The minute a teamfight happened, I got blown up.

Spicy Rice3 votes

Team fights aren't the only part of the game, and lane phase, where he'd want to use his passive the most to get ahead, is nearly impossible to do well in

Gamer Life2 votes

I dont see why people are complaining for as, Riot have said they havnt finished all the changes yet they just ran out of time to fit them all into the patch

dimiondo1 votes

Then why not do the smart idea and leave him on the pbe? They clearly thought this was going to work despite all the protesting. They even stated that the changes were 'solid'. Obviously they are not.

Gamer Life1 votes

{quoted}

Then why not do the smart idea and leave him on the pbe? They clearly thought this was going to work despite all the protesting. They even stated that the changes were 'solid'. Obviously they are not.

maybe they feel they way he was before the changes was worser

dimiondo1 votes

Then they wouldn't of left him for 3 years.

Gamer Life1 votes

{quoted}

Then they wouldn't of left him for 3 years.

they have lists of everything they want to do and maybe he wasnt a prioraty at the time and now he is as he a top laner and top are getting changes atm so

DarkLordArbitur1 votes

Yorick Galio Warwick Urgot

dimiondo1 votes

Exactly 3 of those have proper reworks and the last is soontm. Aatrox isn't getting one of those just a kit update similar to whats happening now. Think vlad.

DarkLordArbitur1 votes

But how long were those champions just kind of left there?

Hethalean2 votes

Isn't it 20-50% AS? I don't mean to be absolutely difficult, but 20-50% is a CRAP TON different than 60-110%. Or are you talking with his ultimate included which isn't always on.

SzGamer2271 votes

{quoted}

110% bonus attack speed from Ult + Passive

Passive gives 20-50%, Ult gives 40-60%. If you save your ult for when your passive boost comes up to get the most out of both the effects that adds up to 60% at level 6 and 110% at level 16. Neither of them are always on, but if you can manage your passive well (lol pun) you just have to make sure the last 1-3 sections of your Blood Well are filled by activating your ultimate and you can sync the effects.

dimiondo2 votes

You obviously didn't play him much or at all before the rework. That build would if worked on the old aatrox due to his passive attack speed which was given to him by defult. The new aatrox cannot afford to build no attack speed items as they are forced to stack the passive. No you cannot say just keep the stacks on because they drop off faster than a stack of bricks. And his old heal was far better than this cheap knock off. And you can't claim to know more about aatrox than me i have played both versions the past one for 3 seasons. Better yet if your going to bloody complain about people complaining about the shit rework at least play the fken thing first.

Swollwonder2 votes

{quoted} Can someone tell my why building to the effect of item 3071 item 3748 item 3053 item 3065 item 3742 wouldn't give Aatrox incredible sustain and significant damage by using the 110% bonus attack speed from Ult + Passive to abuse his on-hit 5% missing health heal and max-health-scaling Titanic Hydra proc?

You know what 110% of 1 added to 1 is? around 2.1. So you know what happens when you get an attack speed boost without any attack speed items? Virtually none.

Also that is an AWFUL build for Aatrox

SzGamer2271 votes

2.1 attack speed huh

You do realize that the absolute attack speed cap is 2.5, right?

Also, if you missed it, Aatrox is not supposed to be a damage-focused diver anymore. They removed % max health costs and gave him % missing health healing exactly to encourage this type of build. If you're still mindlessly stacking attack speed on Aatrox when he has been explicitly designed to make defense a significant portion of his build, then you need to rethink your itemization.

Edge of Daybreak2 votes

You have to ask how is he going to use that healing when he attacks so slowly? Let's say he builds like that then you're probably attacking around 1 time a second assuming normal league things. That means you have to wait 3 seconds before healing and then 6 before the next heal. That teamfight is over by the first heal nowadays. Compared to say illaoi who can trigger her 5% heal multiple times in an AOE while dealing a lot more damage and at a faster rate.

A diver without meaningful damage isnt going to be useful when the other divers have a lot more hard CC to offer and damage.

Also as someone pointed out that healing isnt per auto.

Dracocrash1 votes

Strong on paper, bad in theory.

Try it 5 games and let me know the results

  • someone who tried it.
LordGeovanni1 votes

that build is fucking horrible aatrox is supposed to me a melee carry that heals a morderate health pool not some one with a big health pool and tank stats. mind you its the only build that works on any melee carry fighter that isnt yasou and lee sin but includeing aatrox but its still horrible that fighters have to build shit like that just to not get instagibed before they get in range. where is the fucking ad we dont scale with health you know.

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