@Meddler: A marksman designed for jungling. Is that simply an oxymoron?

darkdill·Jun 6, 2015·3 votes·404 views

I was going into Team Builder and noticed that among the "demanded types", there was Jungle Marksman. This made me laugh a little because no marksman presently is jungle-viable. Some COULD do jungle, but they'd be outperformed by pretty much every other standard jungler.

Yet this also made me think "What if Riot makes a marksman designed for jungling?"

Is this possible? Or is the idea of a R-ADC being in the jungle position considered a contradiction of the design?

13 Comments

ZarxisJun 6, 20154 votes

I remember a few threads requesting that Teemo be reworked into a jungler— that could be exactly what you're asking about.

The primary problem with a squishy, ranged, AD autoattacker in the current jungle is that he/she would be taking the position that tanks greatly benefit from filling (due to Cinderhulk). It's risky to run more squishy champions than necessary, and it's even more risky to force your allies in other positions to make up for the "tanky deficit" an ADC jungler would create.

I'd love to play Twitch jungle again, but I'd rather win by playing someone tougher (a fighter or tank) because I know my team will already have an ADC with more goldflow in bottom lane.

It could be done, but ADCs function best with a lot of gold. The jungle isn't for the best place to fulfill an ADC's gold needs, and an ADC that doesn't require much gold (an ADC designed for the jungle) might be problematic if used in other positions.

GinoSoldierJun 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I remember a few threads requesting that Teemo be reworked into a jungler— that could be exactly what you're asking about.

The primary problem with a squishy, ranged, AD autoattacker in the current jungle is that he/she would be taking the position that tanks greatly benefit from filling (due to Cinderhulk). It's risky to run more squishy champions than necessary, and it's even more risky to force your allies in other positions to make up for the "tanky deficit" an ADC jungler would create.

I'd love to play Twitch jungle again, but I'd rather win by playing someone tougher (a fighter or tank) because I know my team will already have an ADC with more goldflow in bottom lane.

It could be done, but ADCs function best with a lot of gold. The jungle isn't for the best place to fulfill an ADC's gold needs, and an ADC that doesn't require much gold (an ADC designed for the jungle) might be problematic if used in other positions.

Assuming there's an ADC Jungle, nothing stops the rest of the team from having tanks. Assuming the ADC role is taken, you can get a horrifyingly strong bot lane out of double supports Braum/Leona (who are actually working together otherwise forget it.), or have an assassin or bruiser and tank bot lane, you can shove a tankier midlaner in the game such as Chogath, and top lane is still a very good place for many tanks.

As far as gold goes, a lot of the ADC's gold starving would have to come from 'tax' gold when ganking (and successful ganks), maybe there's a way to create a passive somewhere which promotes taking those taxes somehow, maybe increase the gold taken from a minion after having killed a monster.

aaronconlinJun 6, 20154 votes

I've seen Twitch jungle, and Quinn is actually a pretty decent jungler. However, I would love to see a true marksman jungler with a pet. I was hoping that's what Quinn would be. A ranger with a pet wolf or something, where the wolf attacks your targets and can be used to take damage for you would be pretty sweet

IcyPepperJun 6, 20152 votes

It might be too squishy, the jungle just hurts too much unless Rito gave them sustain tools or whatnot, but then they might just go to bot lane anyway because the meta demands ADC=BOT.

darkdillJun 6, 20152 votes

Could be a short-range marksman (i.e. 400 range). That'd be easy for other ADCs to bully.

FantasySniperJun 6, 20151 votes

But if they were short-ranged, they'd need gap-closing or poke tools to make up for it. Neither would help their jungle role any more than their ranger role.

IcyPepperJun 6, 20152 votes

Hm... reminds me a bit of Gnar. I don't think he was designed to jungle, but he can certainly be a tank/bruiser. Urgot too.

Alright, alright, let's think about it then. If we had an ADC jungler, what would their purpose be? Gnar is a secondary tank who can shred bruisers reasonably well, and alternates between being a little squishier and not, and Urgot is an anti-carry armor shredder who excels in teamfights against tankier comps. What would this ADC jungler accomplish that other ADC's wouldn't?

Lord DusteonJun 6, 20152 votes

Marksmen generally work from farming gold to get items to be relevant, with a rather weak early game. A marksmen designed to jungle would need some form of damage mitigation that could survive the much harder jungle, which would probably come from good tankiness and self heals. Additionally, it would probably need good early damage so as to be relevant. At that point however while they could successfully jungle they would do better botlane, where they would get more gold and have the tools to easily destroy other marksmen.

AnonagonJun 6, 20151 votes

Well, for a long while Jungle Twitch was a thing, though I'm pretty sure its a little less than viable right now, if doable. Of course, what they didn't like about Jungle Twitch was reliable level 2-3 stealth ganks with red buff, so its not like Riot actually has a thing against a carry jungling. Riot does seem to actually support the idea of jungle-based carries, particularly with Yi and Shaco, but there has yet to be a ranged carry designed for the jungle. However, I have seen people succeed with Quinn, Draven, Twitch, Ezreal, and even Kalista jungle. I think of all these Quinn is probably the most viable since she would have the safest clears without abusing leash mechanics and with her E she has fairly reliable ganks.

supes the lostJun 7, 20151 votes

While they nerfed leashing (this patch halved the number of leash hops camps do before resetting... kinda, it's complicated), ADC junglers aren't in the best slot, but they still do well after the first clears.

Draven has decent ganks by pairing bloodrush to appear and stand aside to force the enemy back towards your laner.
Quinn has some brutal ganks stemming from her very assassin like attack pattern.
Ezreal has ok ganks, but gets his real use from crossmap pressure with trueshot barrage.
Twitch is still very assassin like, pulling some pretty annoying shaco like ganks by just appearing and deleting the laner with autos.
Kalista is near uncontestable when it comes to objective fights since she out damages smite with rend, and has decent ganks on all lanes, and amazing ganks on the lane her soulbound is.

TL:DR ADC junglers and what they do.

Shrek LuigiJun 6, 20151 votes

Twitch was a jungler by meta in previous league seasons. That was back when his invis lasted for an eternity, though, which made ganking ridiculously easy lol

Angry MonsterJun 7, 20151 votes

not to mention every single jungle change since then

HobbsgoblinJun 6, 20151 votes

How about a Ranged ADC with permanent pet for a 4 level ult. When the pet is out R controls it like Tibbers or Shacos ult and R summons it when its not out. Give it a cooldown from when the pet or you dies. One spell can heal the pet and buff you which you would focus level while jungling. Figure the rest out riot.