Does Barrier need a buff?

ofart·Apr 4, 2015·58 votes·5,395 views

I haven't seen one in months and it's rare for it to be better than Heal imo. It is better vs ignites but Heal's MS and it affecting other champs makes it much better later.

61 Comments

IcyPepperApr 4, 201526 votes

I know it counters ignite (and ignite halves heal), so... maybe it could boost defenses a little bit as well for a few seconds, like a reverse exhaust.

Ignite has two effects and true damage, heal has two effects and affects two champions max, and exhaust has multiple effects on one target. If anything, barrier should have something to give it a bit more "oomph." I vouch for boosted defenses (to survive an early game all-in).

DrCabesApr 4, 20153 votes

{quoted}

maybe it could boost defenses a little bit as well for a few seconds

Cleanse kinda does that but only against cc and also removes ignite. I agree though that barrier could use a buff.

Also barrier does not counter ignite. Ignite burns over five seconds while barrier only lasts for two seconds so it only blocks 2/5 of ignite's damage.

IcyPepperApr 4, 20153 votes

Also barrier does not counter ignite. Ignite burns over five seconds while barrier only lasts for two seconds so it only blocks 2/5 of ignite's damage.

That 2/5 can save your life. It doesn't hard counter it, I suppose... but it certainly goes against it. It will shield more than heal will heal while ignited, though.

Hm... if anything, it could use a much longer duration. For the cd it has, it's a twitch reflex "win a single trade" spell.

DrCabesApr 4, 20154 votes

What I meant was, if you're taking a spell to counter ignite cleanse does it better then barrier. Yes barrier can still save your life but there's a good chance it won't save you from ignite.

IcyPepperApr 4, 20157 votes

Hm, you got a point there.

Yeah, barrier definitely needs a buff. Otherwise it may get (un)revived if you know what I mean :/

KeevalroyApr 4, 20154 votes

Otherwise it may get (un)revived if you know what I mean :/

Still waiting for them to give it back. They had no legitimate reason to take it away, and couldn't even be bothered to explain themselves after it was removed.

DreadlocksApr 4, 20152 votes

Don't know why people are down voting you, you make a very valid point. Here is an upvote :) 100% agree the ignites duration outlasting barrier is a pretty big variable to consider.

Meeks011Apr 4, 20151 votes

Then there's Clarity. Does it need anything? It's not taken often, but it's very useful.

OyddAWqJ5rApr 4, 20157 votes

Heal probably counters Ignite better actually. Barrier lasts 2 seconds while Ignite lasts 5. So Heal is 50% effective vs Ignite while Barrier only blocks 2 seconds (40%) of Ignite. Heal also affects 2 people and gives MS.

Level 1 damage mitigated/healed from Ignite summoner 7 90 x 50% = 45 summoner 21 70 x 40% = 28

Level 6 summoner 7 165 x 50% = 82.5 summoner 21 170 x 40% = 68

Level 18 summoner 7 345 x 50% = 172.5 summoner 21 410 x 40% = 164

Heal is better than Barrier vs Ignite at all stages of the game. Healing effects can also be increased by certain champions and Spirit Visage.

Sirin GioroApr 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I know it counters ignite (and ignite halves heal), so... maybe it could boost defenses a little bit as well for a few seconds, like a reverse exhaust.

Ignite has two effects and true damage, heal has two effects and affects two champions max, and exhaust has multiple effects on one target. If anything, barrier should have something to give it a bit more "oomph." I vouch for boosted defenses (to survive an early game all-in).

Yeah, maybe barrier can boost your defensive stats by >50% until the shield breaks as well?

FantasySniperApr 4, 20158 votes

Mages have access to item 3157 on a 90 sec CD, but summoner 21 barely blocks decent spells late-game and is on a 210 sec cooldown.

If it lasted for 3-5 seconds instead, and/or had a smaller CD to a max of 200, it would actually see some use.

Maybe even a small amount of damage reduction (Say, max 15%), so it could be a personal life-saver.

MAZZ1M0Apr 4, 20156 votes

summoner 21 : Needs higher defense and spell shield. summoner 4 : Fine. It's standard anyway. summoner 14 : It's fine. summoner 6 : Could use a little something -perhaps an initial burst of speed like Heal? summoner 7 : A larger heal would be nice. : A shorter cooldown would be nice. summoner 12 : Fine. summoner 13 : Training wheels for noobs. What this offers is sustain, and while sustain is good, it's outclassed by Ignite, Flash, Teleport, and Exhaust for those who don't need this. It's not something you need. Mobility, damage, and cc is something you need. {{summoner:2}} : Wards. This is definitely a niche pick. No one flames you for taking it because it's vision and vision is good, but... is Clairvoyance good? Debatable. summoner 11 : Such a thing of beauty now with the Hunter's Machete paths. No problems here -though the Machete items could use some work. Revive: It's counter to one of the goals of the game. You're not supposed to die. Being unable to use it repeatedly makes it crap. It's one of those things you need when you need it, not when the cooldown for it is up. If it was a passive spell and reduced respawn timers by 70% then I think it would be useful. Otherwise, it's crap.

Sergeant StephenApr 4, 20156 votes

If a spell is "standard anyway", it's probably a little too strong. Imo, the other mobility/defense spells (ghost, cleanse, barrier) all need a buff.

Earl EulrichApr 4, 20151 votes

dunno, i´d still like to see them start a featured gamemode that is basically SR but without flash - just to see how it plays out. I think the game could actually benefit greatly from not having flash available (it´s used more for disengage/safety than for making plays anyway).

The MunicipalityApr 5, 20152 votes

That would be interesting for sure, however, I think it would only serve to show how powerful mobility is right now. By further widening the gap between haves and have nots, you risk altering whatever meta exists to exclude champions without built in escape/engage tools. Who would want to run a champion mid that is slow and has no escapes (like Heimerdinger for example) when a champion like Azir can fit a similar niche, while still being able to escape jungle ganks with his Q/E combo and his ult.

RainbowgasmApr 5, 20152 votes

Agreed, players should be able to pick cleanse or ghost in place of flash. All 3 should be viable.

Cleanse should be preferable when your biggest early game threat is CC from either your lane opponent, enemy jungler, or both. (Annie, Sejuani, Leona, etc)

Ghost should be used if your opponents built in mobility is your biggest early game threat. (Lee Sin, Shaco, Katarina, Akali, Volibear)

Flash should be for people who want flexibility (at the expense of a long cd) and the ability to jump walls, and late game engaging power.

Meeks011Apr 4, 20152 votes

(Revive Icon): Add it back in.

VesarixxApr 5, 20153 votes

summoner 6 Removes all slowing effects upon activation. Your champion ignores unit collision and moves 28% faster for 10 seconds.

summoner 13 Restores 40% total mana and grants additional damage to spells on hit in exchange for additional mana for 10 seconds, can be reactivated early to end this effect.

{{summoner:2}} Reveals an area of the map for 5 seconds and grants your champion true sight for 10 seconds.

CoolKnightSTApr 5, 20151 votes

You known they nerfed summoner 7 after the changes where implemented right...

qetzelApr 4, 20154 votes

Riot gave reasoning for this.

In short, barrier and heal occupy the same space. Both stop damage (Barrier in advance, heal afterwards). Therefore, if one is stronger than the other, it will always be picked. The weaker one will never be picked. For this reason "Buff barrier" or "nerf heal" do nothing to fix the problem of only one being used.

If you want both to be usable, they need to do different things. But how can they?

Hope this helped

WolfBVApr 4, 20153 votes

well, they just have heal better for two people and barrier better than one and my keyboard makes cracking noises. IMma use this time to test out all the keys for cracks. qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm,.';[]=-1234567890.

OK, so the cracking noises are only from the left side of the keyboard.

SinlaireApr 5, 20151 votes

sounds to me like you might have gotten something under your keys that is causing a stick and cracking sound.

PartholonianApr 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you want both to be usable, they need to do different things. But how can they?

Well, heal can heal someone else, and also grants a buff. So they DO do different things already, but the problem is that unless you KNOW you're going to be ignited when you use it, barrier doesn't offer enough numbers compared to heal to make it an interesting tradeoff (especially given the downside risk of becoming completely useless if you aren't attacked within its short window).

It might still be useful for certain mids who are facing opponents they know are going to try to ignite and kill them, but the matchup is one where trying to ignite back and kill them first isn't an attractive or realistic option, like Ori vs. Kat, or even Heimer vs. Kat. Heal won't help you (much) because you know they're taking ignite. But then in that situation you might be even better off taking exhaust... because it will actually reduce their damage, rather than just subtracting a fixed amount.

What if barrier also had 1 second of strong (like 50% or even 75%) damage reduction, so you could use it to counter a specific incoming ability? (Or if that's still not enough, a mini-Zhonya's or spellshield.) Right now if you try to time barrier to "counter" spike damage, it just blows through and barrier is no different than X extra health, but with a % damage reduction, it would have a better best case if it was well timed. But that still wouldn't be able to do the things heal can, like save an ally, speed you up in a chase situation, or let you keep the health after the current fight is over. And it wouldn't compete that much with exhaust because it only protects yourself, and right now it's mainly supports that take exhaust.

IMO, barrier should be as good at denying a kill as ignite is at getting one, and right now, it's not even close.

Xela SyabApr 4, 20154 votes

they should just mash cleanse with barrier, so it counter cc and burst. ghost needs a way shorter cd.

darkdillApr 4, 20153 votes

I use Barrier instead of Heal as Lux mid-lane. It's helpful to withstand all-in dives, though Exhaust is better against a Zed.

But yeah, Barrier needs to be better. Make it give you bonus resists while the shield holds and it'll be good.

CoolKnightSTApr 4, 20153 votes

#From

Shields your champion for 95 + (20 × level) for 2 seconds.

#To

Shields your champion for 95 + (25 × level) for 2 seconds.

Lategame barier can't even block an single AP ability. So better lategame scaling might be the solution.

XonraApr 4, 20152 votes

I would say no

But I personally don't think it ever should have been added to Summoner's Rift in the first place.

Honestly they need more interesting summoner spells, and a better balance between them all so everyone doesn't feel they have to take flash, the support has to take exhaust, etc etc.

With the current state of the spells, there is no reason to take barrier 99.9% of the time over most anything, and that includes cleanse as that can help in quite a few situations with all the CC floating around in a lot of kits.

WESTFALLApr 4, 20152 votes

How about making barrier a support like summoner, that gives a shield to allies also just like heal does . Or that can give the shield to whoever you want rather than only on yourself

FalconPawwwwnchApr 4, 20152 votes

No, heal needs nerfs

QueenAquaApr 5, 20152 votes

Eh, I like barrier for it's versatility. Sure heal "helps" a teammate, but it doesn't stack and a lot of supports have stopped taking exhaust since heal got buffed. It is definitely a good defense against ignite and when i choose my summoner spell, i think a lot about how late game will go. AS an adc, if you get ignited, even with heal, it's pretty much over for you in that fight unless you have a nid or nami or raka on your team. Barrier can be used in a number of instances throughout the game and that's what i love about it. Cait ults your low support and your low too? heal won't get you out of that if you block it and your support is toast if you heal and don't block it. Barrier? Barrier does a lot more in that instance, allowing you to take more damage then with heal.

summoner 21 Shields your champion for 115~455 health [95 + (20 × level)] for 2 seconds.

summoner 7 Restores 90~345 health [75 + (15 x level)] to your champion and the allied champion nearest to the caster's cursor (or the most wounded ally if no target is near the cursor). *Healed champions are debuffed for 35 seconds, causing subsequent Heal casts on them to be 50% less effective.

*Affected champions gain +30% movement speed for 1 second.

ABCDEFGHIJKApr 4, 20151 votes

I think it does. It's sure that Heal is stronger than Barrier, which is situational (against champions with Healing Reduction or high burst) at this moment. Maybe putting removal of Healing Reduction effect can fix this problem? summoner 21

l Main RenektonApr 4, 20152 votes

Barrier heal new meta

DreadlocksApr 4, 20151 votes

I like barrier in a few situations.. I agree it could use a buff though, at least the duration it stays up would be nice... I've tried using it to counter ignite and I have had good success but there are those times when ignite kills me regardless just because ignite's DOT is longer.

YoungFarmerApr 4, 20151 votes

Is it weird that I read "Does barrier need a nerf" I think I see "need a nerf" so much on the forums my brain automatically assumes thats waht it says lol

ZACKandATTACKApr 4, 20151 votes

Barrier is really good on passive safe midlands like Ziggs or Orianna, when they are against Assassins with ignite.

RikariApr 4, 20151 votes

It counters ignite and only targets one person,so its useful in mid lane ranged mages. its good,just not this meta.

Soda PopkillskiApr 4, 20151 votes

Yes it does. It is easily outdone by Ignite. The only times you actually should use barrier is when you want to be an annoying prick as fizz.

WarlockLawApr 4, 20151 votes

I have always argued that heal is only good in a duo lane, for solo lanes you should always take exhaust or barrier over heal. Solo lanes are much more likely to see an opponent with ignite which mitigates your heal and have cc which prevents your heal. Meanwhile barrier blocks more damage and can be used through any cc. Exhaust is also a good defensive summoner vs assassins as it completely trumps their burst and leaves them vulnerable

AuryielApr 5, 20151 votes

Shorter CD if the whole barrier is blown up?

So if you time it properly, you get rewarded for using it/you deter your enemies from actually touching you if they care a lot about your barrier.

AnonymousaurApr 5, 20151 votes

I actually really prefer Barrier over Heal when I am ADC.

Why? I am most likely to abuse Heal and use it when I don't need it just cause it heals and lets me run faster for a bit + I panic when my support looks like is going to die so I use it when apparently I didn't need to and it was pointless. Then I feel like poop. I know this probably makes no sense but my brain is wired differently so....

Meanwhile I feel more controlled with Barrier and it has been pretty useful to me. I do think it would be nice to buff it a little.

Hyrum GraffApr 5, 20151 votes

Barrier needs a rework. As it is, it'll always be either heal or barrier that's better -- there is no middle ground.

I remember morello saying a while back that his craziest idea for barrier atm was to make it like a shorter kayle ult.

The SoulforgedApr 5, 20151 votes

What if you gained approx 50 aromr/mr for 5 seconds or so if the shield is broken, and the duration was increased to be like 4-5 sec. It makes you want to ignore the target like Kayle ulted them, and would pretty much stop them from attacking you if they're smart.

FourVsFiveApr 5, 20151 votes

change barrier to 3 seconds problem solved.

LOL SpammerApr 5, 20151 votes

Ya maybe make it like a shield that increases every time you use it or something. Or make it a permanent shield or be able to shield another player or tower.

VesarixxApr 5, 20151 votes

Heal and Barrier both have their own pros and cons, one advantage to barrier is that it can be used at full health, so if there is an enemy that can 100-0 you, you can pop barrier before getting hit in order to survive, with heal you couldn't do that. Also if you don't need exhaust you can have a support run heal and the ADC take barrier, which gives a lot more effective health in 2v2 fights.

TheRakkunApr 5, 20151 votes

Make barrier a long CD spellshield, bada-bing bada-boom.

AndyChronoApr 5, 20151 votes

Yes it does need a buff.

In a duo lane, Heal is better since it also heals your lane partner and the move speed provides some utility.

In a solo lane, proper use of Exhaust will usually end up preventing more damage than Barrier once you hit Level 6 when most all-ins occur because people have their ultimate. The math supports this, for instance.

Barrier blocks only 215 damage at Level 6. When you consider 40% damage reduction from Exhaust, this means that if the enemy does more than 215 / (1 - 0.4) = 358 damage from his all-in rotation then Exhaust will end up preventing more damage. Suffice to say, all of the most dangerous all-in champions can far exceed this amount of damage so Exhaust is simply better.

As the game progresses and people get items, those same burst champions can pump out even more damage which makes Exhaust scale better into the late game. Barrier at Level 18 stops just 455 damage... The parity point with Exhaust is just 455 / (1 - 0.4) = 758 damage which even a damn tank can do with just base damages so Barrier is pretty much useless at this point. On the other hand, a proper Exhaust on a key carry can potentially prevent thousand(s) of damage and also provides some utility (slow) and counter engage potential (reduced armor/resists).