new zac why....................

Zanader·Apr 19, 2017·5 votes·1,713 views

so yeah riot.... why this just... why .... hes so inconsistant and just so unreliable with hes new Q and R its ... ugh just why did you think this was a good idea

10 Comments

flyingbaklavaApr 19, 20175 votes

Zac already suffered from consistency issues considering how easy it is to dodge/interrupt elastic slingshot at high ELO's. His ultimate change just makes his consistency issues even worse...

KilanostApr 20, 20173 votes

Love the stream brother. Fellow Zac player here (and while I keep him in the jungle, the few times I took him top, i channeled my inner Baklava and ended up doing quite well...without even buying boots). Read my above post on this whole rework as I think it sums things up well.

The first thing I noticed when I looked at his new Q was how it destroys top Zac so my condolences. That new ult isn't helping either. Straight up rushed garbage. They had a deadline of finishing after Spring split, had nothing but trash, but decided to push it out anyway. Combine that with the possibility of them going after thornmail again and you definitely have an issue on your hands.

My favorite part is how they put a cleanse on his ult but then gave that same ability a 2.5 second channel time. Be free, Zac! But don't go anywhere.

PS: If you posted your thoughts on the rework, could you reply with a link? If you haven't, you should definitely express your concerns. This rework is an abomination.

flyingbaklavaApr 21, 20172 votes

Glad to hear of another disciple of Zac! I put my thoughts on the rework in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoQ1e8RVtxI. Also, the scoop part of the ultimate can be triggered after 1 second of channeling. It is still not good enough as any champion with mobility or a flash will get out by then, but not 2.5 seconds bad. Also, I really hope they don't do something stupid with thornmail. It is the last bastion of strength against ADC's damage.

KilanostApr 23, 20173 votes

Yea channeled abilities don't have a long history of being successful in this game except orianna's which is only a .25 second channel and has 10x the teamfight impact.

I think the ult is horrendous personally. I think they should have kept the essence of zac's ult the same put put the bounces on a charge basis so that as a tank all his disruption isn't spent in the first 4 seconds of an engage and he can also get another bounce during team fights for peel from gaining a charge during combat. You could add a 1s cd between charges and cut the duration of the speed boost. Just put an internal CD on the knockup like an udyr bear stance stun and I think that would have been golden.

I'm also not happy about what the new Q means for jungle clearing and, for you in the top lane, wave clear. I think the first cast should only stick to enemy champions and do damage to all minions and monsters hit. I feel like I'm being forced into building a rylais over liandrys to provide the slows that I'm losing from the new Q. I know you said you like the Q but i think what zac loses from the neat mechanic is too much.

137434Apr 19, 20172 votes

{quoted}

hes so inconsistant and just so unreliable with hes new Q and R

That is the point. Zac now is just E in then smash R/W or smash Q/W if R isn't up.

Riot wanted Zac to be more interested to play as and against that requires more thought to get optimal output from.

ZanaderApr 19, 20173 votes

well hes pure garbage now

KilanostApr 23, 20173 votes

inconsistency doesn't make champions more interesting to play. What we're talking about with inconsistency is either too little opportunity to use an ability to its potential (his q) or too much opportunity for counterplay with too little strength to balance out that counterplay (his ult). Orianna's ult is a .25s cooldown done from range, with a larger radius, that has a significantly larger impact in combat than the PBE zac ult. Either give the ult significantly more impact or lower the channel (or revert the change completely).

KilanostApr 20, 20172 votes

I'm copy/pasting this from a reply I made to a different post. I think it sums of the reworks well:

Literally the only thing Sej needed before the rework was increased damage to jungle monsters. She had exactly what they wanted in tanks: Low damage, high CC. In fact, my nickname for Sej was "The CC Queen." Now, they removed her most consistent form of CC (the slow on her E) and made it so the skill can only be used it stacked 4 times which requires the help of ONLY melee champions to do. Playing on a team with a Thresh support and a Rumble top? This skill is useless. Having 20% of your kit so dependent on having a team with at least 1 other melee auto attacker is ridiculous. This screams of the roll out being rushed. They had a deadline of the end of Spring split and had this passive on the table and said "hmm, seems strong if everyone can stack it (a mechanic that is already in the game Braum ) but the dead line is tomorrow. Lets just make it melee only. But then they did the most contradictory thing ever. They gave a tank 25% max health magic damage. So the end result of trying to lower tank damage and increase CC for Sej was remove her main source of CC and give her shit tons of burst. They literally took the champion that did exactly what they thought tanks should be doing and made her the exact opposite of that.

Want another example of how rushed this dog shit tank update is? Here we go:

Look at zac's ult. First thing it does is remove movement impairing effects. BUT then you have to channel his ult for up to 2.5 seconds. So remove movement impairment but force the champion to sit there anyway to use his ult. Put the cleanse on his E so he has a decent escape because his old Ulti helped him get out of shitty situations which he is highly susceptible to mid game. Also, one of the benefits of his old ult was that it spewed blobs all over the place for some healing after the initial engage. Where is that? Its bad enough the blobs spawn so far away now (an old nerf) but now you get that much less of them? Lets not even go into how they tried to introduce extra CC into his kit by removing the extremely consistent and useful AOE slow on hsi Q and making it an ability that only affects the first enemy hit. Then you have to find another enemy nearby to smash into them. Ive watched 2 full game plays and I've only seen this "smash" successfully pulled off once. So between that inconsistency and how easy it is to dash/flash/walk out of Zac's ulti, they've essentially made the only two things in his kit that they changed completely inconsistent. Wanted to fix pre PBE zac? Knock some damage off each of his ulti bounces. Done. Seriously of all the tanks to choose, why rework the one that feels the most satisfying to play?

Or we can talk Maokai:

Here's a guy who was the tankiest champion in the game. The PBE rework has no damage mitigation in his otherwise completely weak kit. The best thing that he has is his passive which now has a ridiculously high cooldown for most of the game.... which was the only thing that really allowed him to sustain in many of the lanes he was in. They made his travel time on his root so slow that people have enough time to play a ward and ward hop to a turret (or just dash or walk) so that if you use it in lane, you run a high risk of taking turret fire. On top of that, they moved his %health damage to his sapling toss which has a flat 12 second cooldown at all levels and its full damage is completely dependent on being placed in bushes. So now he has zero lane damage (because saplings 9 times out of 10 end up running toward minions after the enemy champion starts walking away) and also poor lane sustain and zero damage mitigation for late game. What does he have now? A nami ult that is so slow people can just walk out of range so the only way its hitting anyone is point blank in which case it only snares for .6 seconds and affects no one else behind the person first hit. So basically this rework is probably the largest failure because he has no ability to consistently tank damage, his snare has just as much of a chance of getting him killed as it does making a play, and he has no lane presence because most of his damage got transfered to an ability that chooses its own aggro so people can just walk away form it and let it aggro a minion or even just out run the damage entirely. So basically they took the best tank in the game, removed his damage mitigation, nerfed his passive to high hell, took the %health damage he could consistently hit (at the risk of over extending) and moved it to an ability with a flat 12 second cooldown that you have no control over after it lands that is easily the 2nd easiest ability to out run in the game, second only to his new, shittier nami ult rip off.

These reworks are a fucking abomination. Straight up hot garbage.