Is there a reason why Yasuo is constantly left untouched?

Call Me Nana·Apr 22, 2019·20 votes·9,736 views

Safety, damage, mobility, cc. little cooldowns, hitboxes that logically dont make sense (a la windwall)..

Why does the shield decay? just get rid of it.

67 Comments

GreenetteApr 22, 201918 votes

Because, as quoted by some Rioter,

"China loves Yasuo. And Vayne."

Who owns Riot Games? I wonder to which demographic Tencent is likely to pander to.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

NFL cheerleaderApr 22, 20194 votes

Top most played champs of all time are yasuo, zed, thresh, jinx, lee sin, vayne, ezreal, and morgana and kai'sa has now rising to the top of that list as well. The most played and loved are carefully observed but Yasuo has actually received several hidden "touchups". For instance he was extremely buffed by the boot upgrades a couple seasons ago, and extremely nerfed by the mage update. Buffed again with the rune update and nerfed again with conquerors. He is sitting at 50% wr all round now and is considered the most balanced champion in league of legends without having hardly any ability reworks or stat touchups.

He's also probably the most mechanically pleasing champion to play and brings in a hefty amount of RP so changing up his kit or aesthetic would be very much not in anyones interest. Which is why those who really just hate him can ban him. Yasuo and Zed are almost always in between 40 to 60% ban rate even when nerfed. So it really doesn't make sense to change him up when he's already basically unplayable.

RagnaveilApr 22, 20191 votes

The big issue is that if they do any change to him, low elo will immediately cry for nerfs, and if they nerf him, he's likely gonna fall under and they'll be forced to buff him, which in turn works up low elo to be angry and protest the shit out of the buff. Its an endless cycle as it stands, regardless of him being strong or not.

SEKAIApr 22, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Because, as quoted by some Rioter,

"China loves Yasuo. And Vayne."

Who owns Riot Games? I wonder to which demographic Tencent is likely to pander to.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

That must be why Wukong, a champ that is receives perhaps his highest popularity in China, gets gutted the instant he shows up in tournaments. Or how highly popular champs in China like Xin and Lee where the former never gets substantial appeal or how the latter has been properly controlled and he's no where as OP as he was.

Because that must mean that Riot has a leaning towards Chinese players or whatever, and not simply due to the fact Yasuo is highly popular globally and ESPECIALLY IN WESTERN PLAYERBASE?

If you have brains to think, don't suddenly stop at scapegoating and dog whistles. Colour me both mad and disappointed.

What's the difference between you and some random flat-earther and anti-vaxxer now, preaching nonsense based on nonsense misinformation and failed reasoning?

OrangeMarineApr 22, 20194 votes

b b b but CHINA!

Bad! CHINA! BADDD.

make wall!

SEKAIApr 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

b b b but CHINA!

Bad! CHINA! BADDD.

make wall!

China.exe has stopped working.

D357R0Y3RApr 22, 20197 votes

The boards has really become a place that exists not to talk about gameplay objectively, but just to vent out frustration over anything that people can find, china, korea, yasuo mains, obama, whatever they want.

They can't just maybe think about why the shield is there, why the double crit passive is there. It would really requiere more than 10 iq

letsfeedtogetherApr 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The boards has really become a place that exists not to talk about gameplay objectively, but just to vent out frustration over anything that people can find, china, korea, yasuo mains, obama, whatever they want.

They can't just maybe think about why the shield is there, why the double crit passive is there. It would really requiere more than 10 iq

Actually this board is about champion balance too.

SEKAIApr 22, 201910 votes

{quoted}

The boards has really become a place that exists not to talk about gameplay objectively, but just to vent out frustration over anything that people can find, china, korea, yasuo mains, obama, whatever they want.

They can't just maybe think about why the shield is there, why the double crit passive is there. It would really requiere more than 10 iq

His shield wouldn't be a problem had it been not nearly as free as it is. Same goes for his double-crit, the penalty is basically nonexistent.

This theme is perpetuated across Yasuo's entire kit.

Q is not punished in any way if you spam it. If anything, you're actively encouraged to spam it. It's less about Yasuo needing to land his Q, but more about how inevitably the opponent would be hit by 1 of them due to the sheer inevitability of how many and frequent they come.
W is just dumb. And it's not like it costs a lot to cast it, because some 20 second CD with NO COST is really cheap for a spell of that level of impact.
E is also a nightmare. A dash with basically no CD and no cost at all is just a recipe for disaster no matter how much on-target CD they want to put on others instead of on the ability itself. Why, as if he can dash like 7-8 times PER MINION WAVE is restricting him a lot. E also demonstrates yet another problem in Yasuo's kit, it NULLIFY THE ONLY AND ALREADY HALF-ASSED ""COUNTERPLAY"" OF Q, by allowing his Q to be a single target spell, to proc for his R. And speaking of his R...
R is just the icing on the screwed up cake that is Yasuo. It encapsulates everything that's wrong with Yasuo on a PHILOSOPHICAL level and condense it into a single spell. R carries on E's work of ignoring the only counterplay to Yasuo's Q by making it so it procs on every displacement in the game from OTHER characters so Yasuo doesn't even need to land his only combo in his entire kit. It has the same overloading effect of being an extremely strong CC that also gives him a super strong steroid, because why fucking not. And R has the audacity to have no CD and no cost whatsoever, and even has the nerve to have """hidden mechanics""" that breaks it even further.

And above is merely scratching the surface. Many other questionable design decisions also go into this such as how the bs hitbox of W is coded such as how you could use W AFTER being hit and at the WRONG DIRECTION and still block it, why Q applies full life steal, why E is a fixed range dash with no purpose other than allowing him additional mobility options, why procing R somehow also needs to reset and proc his passive, why turret shots does not proc Yasuo's passive shield, why a late-game hypercarry needs to be a lane bully and also hard-counters like half of the entire roster by existing, why R has a """mechanic"""" that places Yasuo away from turrets as much as possible and mitigate the risk of turret diving, why ""airblade"" doesn't interrupt Yasuo's own combo like any other champ would but instead rewarded for spamming like a literal mad man, etc.

With all of these booms, what is Yasuo's DESIGNED weakness?

#THERE IS NONE

Yasuo's only """weakness""" is if the player is braindead. He has infinite lane-mobility so he will always out-poke and out-outmaneuver you, he has infinite in-lane sustain so he will always outlast you, and he has among the highest scaling in the entire game so chances are he will outscale you by a country mile too. You can't even try to sucker-punch him with ganks and whatnot and hope he stays there because he farms incredibly quick and also because his late game is at TWO GOD DAMN ITEMS. There is no way to stop him, besides the fact if his player is an absolute moron. And that's nothing short of a champ that's fundamentally broken and overpowered.

#Nothing in Yasuo's kit requires Yasuo player actually being good or actively manage anything in order to do well

His kit was as if designed specifically to be without any conceivable notion of failure state; this is especially worse when Yasuo's kit hands out skyhigh power without any counter-weight to balance it out. And instead, it's a champ that may as well be a equivalent of handholding tutorial in League, where the only way you can fail the said tutorial is if you absolutely suck and have 0 concept of playing whatsoever. And yes, that's how much it takes for a person to play Yasuo badly due to the sheer number of synergy and unchecked benefits given without any forms of designed weakness or drawback holding him in place. That's why Yasuo is so popular, and so strong regardless of elo. He is fundamentally broken by design.

**Champs like Yasuo places the burden of making plays and actually being good on the OPPONENT and not on the player themselves as a design with no designed exploitable weaknesses whatsoever but full of synergy and benefits. And no one needs to be reminded on how that's clearly going to be an even bigger problem once the said player has skills when playing Yasuo. **

All of this, are FAR MORE THAN ENOUGH evidences to point at the fact Yasuo exhibits just about all the hallmarks of a failed design that is so infinitely forgiving with mistakes and generous with advantages, it's blatantly and unquestionably overpowerd and simply needs to be remade.

And that's a big problem.

D357R0Y3RApr 22, 20194 votes

{quoted}

His shield wouldn't be a problem had it been not nearly as free as it is. Same goes for his double-crit,

Except it isn't, it requieres Yasuo to move to build up his shield, it's not like Rakan's passive shield that is there passively without doing anything.

the penalty is basically nonexistent.

according to who, to you? that's some great shit right there, it's the typical board attitude like "zed nerfs are nothing" when his win rate goes from 53% to 50%.

Q is not punished in any way if you spam it. If anything, you're actively encouraged to spam it.

so what? What happens if he spams his Q? his Q is an extended autoattack and just like autoattacks it SHOULD be spamable as a spell of a hard carry designed to deal damage, the interesting part is that after 3 Q it becomes a skillshot that enable Yasuo to get his armor pen on ult if he hits it

W is just dumb

according to you once again. I could easily say the opposite and just walk away

A dash with basically no CD and no cost

stop talking about costs, nothing in this game has costs even champions with mana don't care about costs anymore in 2019 morever Yasuo's dash is garbage in teamfight, it's essentially just good around minions making it having clear strengths and weaknesses

it procs on every displacement in the game from OTHER characters

Yes, so it makes drafting interesting and make him good in organized plays Yasuo ultying of other knock ups was never an issue in regular play, I don't know why you're bringing it up if anything it will make him suicide 24/7 by ultying everytime an ally throws a knock up even if it's not a good idea to engage at that time.

With all of these booms, what is Yasuo's DESIGNED weakness?

#THERE IS NONE

if he had no weaknesses, pro players would be abusing him 24/7 like Galio who's a champion WITHOUT weaknesses that gets abused 24/7, even in the support role if riot guts his damage.

Yasuo is a champion with a lot of weaknesses that competent players can use, he's a squishy melee champion that can survive once every 30 sec because of his shield, his windwall has a long cd and can be played around againby walking around it or wait until it expires, and dare you just dare you to link me a single moment where Yasuo's windwall broke competitive play.

by the way this is the only reply I'm giving to you, we already argued about Yasuo a lot in the past, saying over and over again the same thing.

And riot won't do anything to him, because there are more urgent matters like Rakan's no counterplay R+W or Galio.

SEKAIApr 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Except it isn't, it requieres Yasuo to move to build up his shield, it's not like Rakan's passive shield that is there passively without doing anything.

First of all, Rakan's shield is on a fixed CD, which he has to take risk and go aggro on the opponent to reduce its CD, which obviously makes it easier to balance than Yasuo's where its determined by distance traveled by ANY MEANS where he could just go around in circle or make like 2 dashes and that's it for the shield to come up.

And this is not including the fact Rakan isn't a lane bully and ALSO hypercarry and with a shit load of other self and external synergy on a level seen in Yasuo.

So you obviously don't see be whine about Rakan. And even if I do, I wouldn't whine nearly as much as I do Yasuo simply because objectively Rakan is far less of a bs than Yasuo is by far.

according to who, to you? that's some great shit right there, it's the typical board attitude like "zed nerfs are nothing" when his win rate goes from 53% to 50%.

Double crit chance in exchange for 20% crit damage reduction on AA is just no enough to even remotely compare.

Let's assume Yasuo has a tiny 10% crit chance, which would mean he has 20% thanks to his passive. This would mean, on average, he should crit 2 times when he does 10 strikes.
Now let's assume he has 100 AD simply for the sake of easier calculation. With those 10 strikes which we assume to be AA, plus the penalty, his 10 AAs do 100x8+180x2 = 1160 damage.
By contrast, on any other champ who has 10% crit, on average they do 100x9+200 = 1100 damage.
Yasuo is still getting 60 free damage out of this, which is about 5% free damage from other champs. It may not sound much but it's still relevant and significant given Yasuo certainly wouldn't just be fighting with 100 AD nor 10% crit, and the difference gets amplified further with higher AD and crit chance.

In regards to his Q, while 40% reduction puts him on the same level as say, Yi's Q crit reduction, but it has for some reason, higher crit grant when building Infinity Edge than Yi. Because for some reason Yasuo just has to have an edge because fuck reasons.

so what? What happens if he spams his Q? his Q is an extended autoattack and just like autoattacks it SHOULD be spamable as a spell of a hard carry designed to deal damage, the interesting part is that after 3 Q it becomes a skillshot that enable Yasuo to get his armor pen on ult if he hits it

Spammable attacks with strong power and no cost, as well as having a hard carry designed to be OP and carry games since literally the first minute of the game is unquestionably overpowered and broken. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that.

according to you once again. I could easily say the opposite and just walk away

Yeah I'm sure being zoned off the lane entirely by an overloaded BASIC SPELL is an acceptable way of designing a champion interaction, especially against a champ who quickly becomes unstoppable just by farming a few minions despite being extremely strong in early game, AND also being extremely mobile so it's not like you can just walk away in the first place.

At least Illaoi is allowed the "walk away" counterplay because that moment is her ULTIMATE, requires proper set up and can't just dump it on the ground and be OP, and she has next to no mobility and ACTUALLY telegraphed and easily blocked CC (which is slow and blocked by everything in the game) so she can't actually stop people from walking away from her until she's incredibly fed with at least 4-5 items.

Spot the difference between the actually reasonable and the unreasonable "walk away" design?

stop talking about costs, nothing in this game has costs even champions with mana don't care about costs anymore in 2019 morever Yasuo's dash is garbage in teamfight, it's essentially just good around minions making it having clear strengths and weaknesses

Hypercarry should be expected to pay up something in early game. And even then, the cost is secondary to my argument, the bigger problem is the lack of drawback, weakness, and failure state, and its extremely disproportionate massive variety of both internal and external synergy and additional advantages in Yasuo's kit which makes it overall a disgusting soup. I'm sure the post has made itself very clear of this.

Not to mention, the dash isn't garbage especially in teamfights when as I've said, it ignores the ONLY factor people can even use to play around Yasuo by making his Q a lock-on (and they even had the nerf to dumb it down even further by having ulti being able to proc from OTHER PEOPLE's spells, and not just on knockup, but ALL DISPLACEMENTS).

Yes, so it makes drafting interesting and make him good in organized plays Yasuo ultying of other knock ups was never an issue in regular play, I don't know why you're bringing it up if anything it will make him suicide 24/7 by ultying everytime an ally throws a knock up even if it's not a good idea to engage at that time.

A champ that works in just about every comp possible because their no cost and no CD super powerful ulti can proc off the most common forms of CC in the game isn't making drafting ""interesting"".

Unless you believe the time when the jungler in higher level play was only a choice between Lee and Vi or Elise a very interesting time for drafting, otherwise this argument is dumb even on your terms.

if he had no weaknesses, pro players would be abusing him 24/7 like Galio who's a champion WITHOUT weaknesses that gets abused 24/7, even in the support role if riot guts his damage.

Galio is popular solely due to the fact any ability that allows you to join fight from half a map or even a full map away will always be highly sought after in organised plays.

Just because there are champs who by designed are more suited in organised play, it doesn't somehow excuse the shopping list of design problems Yasuo has in its fundamental core as well as his implementation related issues explored in detail in my post.

Yasuo is a champion with a lot of weaknesses that competent players can use, he's a squishy melee champion that can survive once every 30 sec because of his shield, his windwall has a long cd and can be played around againby walking around it or wait until it expires, and dare you just dare you to link me a single moment where Yasuo's windwall broke competitive play.

by the way this is the only reply I'm giving to you, we already argued about Yasuo a lot in the past, saying over and over again the same thing.

And riot won't do anything to him, because there are more urgent matters like Rakan's no counterplay R+W or Galio.

If he has a lot of "weaknesses that competent players can use", the entire community wouldn't collectively ban him by like 60-70% regardless of elo. Clearly, that should already be enough to indicate the champ is someone no one wants to deal with, even the high elo players.

And it says a lot of just how much weakness and play interactions there are against him.

Once again, just because his utter failure of a design isn't a problem in tournament level play where they have completely different focus then winning lane and winning game through sweeping the opponent and taking objectives after, it doesn't change the fact Yasuo's deign is as I've heavily broken down, extremely broken by design and simply needs to be remade.

And this isn't just Yasuo, a lot of champs especially the ones shat out by the newbie designers at Riot either directly or indirectly influenced by CertainlyT and his garbage design logic, have this very same problem. So long Riot does not acknowledge the failure in the designs of the likes of Yasuo, this problem will only ever get worse.

D357R0Y3RApr 22, 20192 votes

{quoted}

If he has a lot of "weaknesses that competent players can use", the entire community wouldn't collectively ban him by like 60-70% regardless of elo

Don't ever say regardless of elo, don't put challenger elo or competent players in the same boat than garbage plat players or below

Competetive players never ban Yasuo because he does have a weakness, and even tho he's better when coordinated because of his ult working on allies knock up he's still worse due to being A MELEE CARRY IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT KNOWS HOW TO PLAY THE GAME

60% of plat players banning Yasuo is irrelevant so what you're trying to tell me that garbage players hate Yasuo? Yes because they're garbage

but garbage players hating Yasuo does not mean that the champion has no counterplay

do you understand at least this logical fact? Because i'm about to repeat it a last time garbage players banning yasuo does not mean that he has no counterplay, just that they don't know what's the counterplay

SEKAIApr 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Don't ever say regardless of elo, don't put challenger elo or competent players in the same boat than garbage plat players or below

Competetive players never ban Yasuo because he does have a weakness, and even tho he's better when coordinated because of his ult working on allies knock up he's still worse due to being A MELEE CARRY IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT KNOWS HOW TO PLAY THE GAME

60% of plat players banning Yasuo is irrelevant so what you're trying to tell me that garbage players hate Yasuo? Yes because they're garbage

but garbage players hating Yasuo does not mean that the champion has no counterplay

do you understand at least this logical fact? Because i'm about to repeat it a last time garbage players banning yasuo does not mean that he has no counterplay, just that they don't know what's the counterplay

Maybe my number is a bit exaggerated to claim that it's also 60% in the top elo, but it still doesn't change the fact Yasuo is not a low elo problem by a very long shot.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yasuo/graphs/ https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/yasuo/diamond 50% ban rate in Diamond.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/yasuo/master Still 30% ban rate in Master+.

Not even Lee in his absolute height of his broken times before Riot finally woke up and put him in a place he's actually balanced, that he managed to have a ban rate quite like Yasuo's current ban rate.

No champ should have ban rate or win rates in their 30%s or worse, higher and managing 50%s in Diamond and some 60% or higher in low elos. That's a huge red flag no matter how you look at it. With a flag as clear as this, it is EXTREMELY obvious the champ either has design or balance problem, or both and there is no disputing it.

Hell, even Master Yi with how broken Rageblade and Conqueror combo (now Wit's End too) are on him and how much hate he gets in low elo, he currently only has a ban rate of 30% IN BRONZE; and guess what, Yasuo doubles that. I'm sure no matter how much of a hard-brick you want to be, you can clearly see a problem here.

And it doesn't take anyone to notice that Yasuo's problem is kind of both but mostly centered on his design itself, given so many things are just wrong in his kit all at once as previously explored you just can't miss it.

D357R0Y3RApr 22, 20193 votes

Lolalytics has been confirmed by riot to have garbage statistics

see, I don't even need to read your entire post to stop reading at half because of your statements that are lacking of knowledge and doesn't even know a quarter of the truth

everytime

and even if he has 28% ban rate in master+ so what? now 28% ban rate means that he has no counterplay? So what about reksai? Karthus? Draven? have you seen their ban rate in master+ according to that garbage source of stats that is lolalytics?

no you didn't

SEKAIApr 22, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Lolalytics has been confirmed by riot to have garbage statistics

see, I don't even need to read your entire post to stop reading at half because of your statements that are lacking of knowledge and doesn't even know a quarter of the truth

everytime

LoLalytics and League of Graphs both show the same result? OPGG outputs similar results too, and if anything the stats shows a more dire situation than the other 2. UGG also match the results provided by LoLalytics and League of Graphs.

Maybe their numbers are not pin point accurate, but the fact they all point to a similar reality is not to be dismissed by hand-waving.

Also, you've yet to actually put forth an argument that actually demonstrates, by EXAMPLES and DEMONSTRATION, why he isn't broken and his design makes sense and is balanced. So far you've mostly used rhetorics as the major driving force of your arguments; and when that doesn't work, now you've switched to blanket dismissal. The closest you've achieved in terms of actually using reason was in your first reply, but since my counterargument you've yet to recover from it. And it's not good.

SEKAIApr 22, 20192 votes

To respond to your edits:

{quoted}

and even if he has 28% ban rate in master+ so what? now 28% ban rate means that he has no counterplay? So what about reksai? Karthus? Draven? have you seen their ban rate in master+ according to that garbage source of stats that is lolalytics?

That's 28% ban rate in MASTERS, that you're ignoring the fact 28% ban rate is ALREADY AN ALARMING NUMBER just not as batshit crazy as his some other ban rates like the 60% in lower brackets, and that's not including his PLAY RATE which constitute his total pick/ban.

No healthy, well designed, and balanced champ should have a 35% pick/ban in MASTER+, where about 1/3rd of the game he's just banned even by the top <1% of players, and you know that.

(EDIT: Also yes, Rek is overtuned atm thanks to Conqueror, especially since she even made a comeback from obscurity solely because of just how borked new Conqueror is; and I wish Yasuo is the same but nope, always been broken. And Draven has always been OP as shit given the kind of bunkers damage he does when given the tiniest of leads; which makes him a big deal in today's super snowball meta. So what)

.....

And THIS IS NOT EVEN CONCERNING THE FACT WE'RE TOTALLY USING THE WRONG WAY TO TALK ABOUT BALANCE atm.

The sole reason why League's balance state is as fucked up as it is, is because Riot just like you, only ever talk on the numbers of ban rates and win rates etc; as their entire aim is to just tweak until hopefully it makes a champ sit at an arbitrary play rate with roughly 50% win rate and then call it balanced and leave it at that. But that TOTALLY DOES NOT SOLVE PROBLEMS AND YOU KNOW IT.

Champs have to be valued deeper than just win rates and play rates. One has to go into the kit and evaluate aspects within their kit, how much power it has, how much drawback it has, how much effort the player has to input, and how much reward they're expected to get out of X amount of input etc etc. I don't know how they're supposed to do this, but it is NOT MY JOB. And we all know Riot hasn't been doing it (especially since Riot has for years refuse to calculate and balance the power budget of range and CC for some godly reasons), and we should know to at least not repeat their mistake and use it as a means to discuss about balance. It's just wrong and severely misguided.

Jinzo TorranceApr 22, 20193 votes

idk why you're still arguing with him

You look up any high ELO Yasuo OTP and they trash KDA ratios while still maintaning a stable 55% winrate on him, even 125 range champs known to "lose lane win game" like Singed OTP have higher KDA ratio then Yasuo players.

Champs is broken because he has too many hand holding mechanics to help you do your job and more when you get behind, like 1.1k shield in teamfights, windwall or his ultimate, other hypercarries don't get this much luxury with CC or massive team utility skills, they get behind or get CC-exploded and they become sandbags for their team but not Yasuo, he has a lot more tools to avoid being useless or survive being focused.

SaezioApr 22, 20192 votes

Do you play Yasuo a lot? The only period he has been OP was during the previous conqueror iteration.

SEKAIApr 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Do you play Yasuo a lot? The only period he has been OP was during the previous conqueror iteration.

Still, it doesn't matter if Conqueror is straight up removed or whatever. Nothing will fix the shopping list of both design and implementation problems that we call Yasuo if no one is bothered to actually look at him and not his surroundings.

SaiannaApr 22, 20192 votes

all you say in this post is total bs. You god damn know why there are so many yasuo threads.

Yasuos shield and double-crit was when Rito tried to force himn into melee-ADC in botlane, which was a failure (same with morde-adc. Truly r%%%%%ed idea). He still has all the power from time time and Riot never adressed the fact he's totally BS to lane against.

You talk shit that noone can talk objectively, while being biased as fuck yourself -.-

D357R0Y3RApr 22, 20193 votes

complete false argumentation Yasuo's champion spotlight featured him as a midlaner nobody at riot talked about botlane

double crit was there to force him into a crit build instead of bruiser like irelia

thank you for proving me that the boards do not know anything about yasuo

SaiannaApr 22, 20191 votes

Yasuo's champion spotlight featured him as a midlaner

You are correct. My bad. I've created false image that Riot tried to give Yasuo an edge against ADC with his total bs passive/shield/wall, but in the end it was just a design to make sure he's just strong af for no real reason.

I've made false memory to create an excuse explaining why Yasuo is such a BS champion.

Still though. he is fucking BS cancer. That's the one thing that will never change about Yasuo without a rework.

Zed geniusApr 22, 20196 votes

Tankiness, damage, mobilty, root, stun, reliable jungle clear, large hitboxes, low mana costs, something that stops you from autoattacking, ability resetting its cooldown a lot, easy ganks, close to no difficulty to play.

Try to guess which champion I made look like the most broken thing in league by going full Hashinshin mode.

Edit: It is Amumu.

NemeBroApr 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WAUjXeTh,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-22T07:10:16.531+0000)

Tankiness, damage, mobilty, root, stun, reliable jungle clear, large hitboxes, low mana costs, something that stops you from autoattacking, ability resetting its cooldown a lot, easy ganks, close to no difficulty to play.

Try to guess which champion I made look like the most broken thing in league by going full Hashinshin mode.

I wanna say Ivern, though I don't think he has a stun.

Ahri BakaApr 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WAUjXeTh,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-22T07:10:16.531+0000)

Tankiness, damage, mobilty, root, stun, reliable jungle clear, large hitboxes, low mana costs, something that stops you from autoattacking, ability resetting its cooldown a lot, easy ganks, close to no difficulty to play.

Try to guess which champion I made look like the most broken thing in league by going full Hashinshin mode.

Jax doesn't have a root

D357R0Y3RApr 22, 20194 votes

he was talking about Amumu

Nea104Apr 23, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WAUjXeTh,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-22T07:10:16.531+0000)

Tankiness

In Season 8 and 9? :D

damage,

? So you don't build tank :D

mobilty

Ahahahah :D

root

Every 2 years or so :D

stun

If you don't miss :D

reliable jungle clear

Yeah, solo raptors. And then, struggling :D

large hitboxes

His Q no, his R yes (every 2 yearss or so) :D

low mana costs

Not really, maybe after the last buff :D

something that stops you from autoattacking

Didn't get it... E passive is not that...

ability resetting its cooldown a lot

Yep, that's fair :D

easy ganks

Not really: no mobility, you need to land your Q and then... only if you have R (every 2 years or so)

close to no difficulty to play.

That's fair too :D

Try to guess which champion I made look like the most broken thing in league by going full Hashinshin mode.

Edit: It is Amumu.

No, only if you exagerate a lot :D Try to do the same with Yasuo, and you have a truly overloaded kit. Not necessarily OP, but just not fair and evidently preferential.

The question why he is still untouched holds.

Zed geniusApr 23, 20191 votes

the point of my reply was that you can make any champion sound overpowered by listing their kit traits with an exaggerating manner

Nea104Apr 23, 20191 votes

I got it, but about Yasuo you don't need to actually exaggerate, imo. His kit is unhealthy and unfair, even if not necessarily OP (depending on the patch you're on)

cabbysbApr 22, 20194 votes

Yasuo has a better shield than braum.

DuskDaUmbreonApr 22, 20194 votes

Because he's not OP?

You might as well ask why Corki isn't getting nerfs.

letsfeedtogetherApr 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Because he's not OP?

You might as well ask why isn't getting nerfs.

I see your comments alot. You say vayne isnt op. Yasuo is not op. Sorry. But yasuos/vayne in bronze maybe are bad. But it dosent mean they're not good.

DuskDaUmbreonApr 22, 20193 votes

I say they're not OP because there are fucking stats to back that statement up.

Granted, they're far from bad (Vayne definitely pushing the strong side of things), but there's a difference between "Yeah this champ's kinda strong" and "Holy shitballs this champion's broken as fuck and needs half their kit immediately removed"

letsfeedtogetherApr 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I say they're not OP because there are fucking stats to back that statement up.

Granted, they're far from bad (Vayne definitely pushing the strong side of things), but there's a difference between "Yeah this champ's kinda strong" and "Holy shitballs this champion's broken as fuck and needs half their kit immediately removed"

How can you see that vayne is broken - for starters her win rate. 21% PICK RATE with 51% wr. 2 - vayne is a late game hyper carry. But her early game is better then a lot of other adcs. Post lvl 6 a good vayne can kill even a fed draven. Her power spike is in 2 items. Yes. Hyper carry AT 2 ITEMS. Thats insane. W min in to the game if shes 0/0/0 shes a hyper carry. Insane. And not balanced. It used to be - shut down vayne in lane and she just wont be able to come back. Now its just shut down vayne- she will come back with 2 items after farming and kill you all.

DuskDaUmbreonApr 22, 20193 votes

51% winrate, mains aren't too high up (averaging below 55%)...seems strong, not OP.

letsfeedtogetherApr 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

51% winrate, mains aren't too high up (averaging below 55%)...seems strong, not OP.

I love how you didnt look at anything i said out side of wr.

DuskDaUmbreonApr 22, 20192 votes

Well, those are KINDA THE MOST FUCKING IMPORTANT THINGS FOR DETERMINING IF A CHAMPION IS OP. But, sure, let's look at the rest.

"Vayne is a late-game hypercarry. But her early game is better then a lot of other adcs. Post lvl 6 a good vayne can kill even a fed draven."

Okay, blatant bullshit. A fed Draven is going to kill Vayne before she completes her first tumble - In many cases quite literally mid-tumble depending on how fed. Vayne is an incredibly squishy champ and Draven is an incredibly high-damage one. Vayne would have to be fed, lucky as fuck with crits, and get a stun off on Draven. Otherwise Vayne is going to die.

" Her power spike is in 2 items. Yes. Hyper carry AT 2 ITEMS."

Spiking at 2 items=!peaked at 2 items. Vayne is always a hypercarry per definition, but vayne isn't doing much carrying at 2 items. Nasus spikes upon buying Sheen - doesn't mean he's suddenly at late-game power because he spent 1050g.

" It used to be - shut down vayne in lane and she just wont be able to come back."

Maybe that's because Vayne is always going to lose lane to some degree unless you massively fuck up. Her default state coming out of lane is being 0/2. That comes with being a hypercarry - you lose lane unless your jungler/support massively helps you out or your opponent has only half a braincell, or you happen to hard-counter your opponent. If Vayne never gets to come back because you shut her down in lane, Vayne will never do anything. And you have a potentially huge lead - use the damned thing to do something besides kill Vayne more.

letsfeedtogetherApr 22, 20194 votes

Yasuo has a bad win rate. And he is broken. Win rate isnt isnt everything. AT ALL.
The fact you go 0/2 out of lane/the fact you dont know how to cs and come back to with 2 items. Is your problem.

DuskDaUmbreonApr 22, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo has a bad win rate. And he is broken. Win rate isnt isnt everything. AT ALL.

If you're unwilling to mention winrate, then you're refusing to discuss balance. Which means you have no say in whether the champion is broken or not, since the state of being broken refers exclusively to balance.

letsfeedtogetherApr 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you're unwilling to mention winrate, then you're refusing to discuss balance. Which means you have no say in whether the champion is broken or not, since the state of being broken refers exclusively to balance.

The difference is - i did not say its "KINDA THE MOST FUCKING IMPORTANT THINGS FOR DETERMINING IF A CHAMPION IS OP."

Win rate isnt everything. Why? Because of the easy fact. Win rate put bad players/ first time players intro a count. There for not rilaiable.

ØrnnToGetTrolleÐApr 22, 20194 votes

They have tried to fix Yasuo...

But he used Wind Wall...

SEKAIApr 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

They have tried to fix Yasuo...

But he used Windwall...

They just need to use an approach that's not a projectile and it'd reach him. Something like Ryze W...

Yes, Yasuo needs something like a Ryze W's level of hardline approach to touch him. It's just how bad he's made as.

DarkTree1Apr 22, 20193 votes

western phenomenon bro

Moonfall SaberApr 22, 20193 votes

Yasuo is in 0% of my games. I ban him 100% of the time and it's great.

BârdApr 22, 20193 votes

Because Yasuo is pretty much fine most of the time.

The boards just love calling him OP.

Jinzo TorranceApr 22, 20192 votes

It's because he attracts a lot of people that still watch cartoons after they have over 20 years, their childish brains are very exploitable

SEKAIApr 22, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinzo Torrance,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WAUjXeTh,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-22T07:36:26.657+0000)

It's because he attracts a lot of people that still watch cartoons after they have over 20 years, their childish brains are very exploitable

Except anime and cartoons actually produce some of the most mature contents in the last couple decades, beaten perhaps only by books (but then again, a lot of anime and cartoons were adapted from books, and they sure as hell did it better than live action ones).

LTK KoRoApr 22, 20192 votes

doesn't matter if some animes and cartoons produce the most mature content if majority of said people watch dumb-ass shit like steven universe, or mediocre cookie cutter show like bnha

FSRERApr 22, 20192 votes

3 simple changes would be enough to make yasuo balanced.

Make his passive crit do only 65% bonus physical damage
Make his passive shield 70 - 630 which would allow more counterplay in lane but stronger late game
Make his ult damage from 200/300/400 (+150% ad) to 100/250/450 (+120% ad) (so that he deals less damage early but pop off mid and late game) and change the ridiculus passive his r has (which I noticed just now) which for the next 15 seconds, Yasuo's Critical strikes gain 50% bonus armor penetration, ridiculus and unecessary. Having a gives him 85% armor penetration to everything, its not lethality, it applies to everything!

I really believe that such changes would not make the champion useless but also not have him as overpowered as he is right now

Flawless FetusApr 22, 20192 votes

Because, contrary to popular opinion, he's not that strong. He's one of the most unfun things to face, sure. It's bullshit that he can feed and then hit his late game power spike with 2 items, sure. Statistically, objectively, he's not overpowered. Fun should be used, to an extent, as a metric, but nerfing champs simply because they are "unfun" would be silly.