Can Akali not be allowed to just fuck around in her smokescreen for 25 minutes per game?
Honestly who the fuck thought this was a good idea to have its duration refreshed when she re-enters it.
121 Comments
MF all lanes50 votesOr give some counterplay ie. dropping a control ward or sweeper on it at least...
Terozu15 votesSweeper does work and being able to completely disable a champ ability is not healthy.
floo33 votesYou still can't target her. And 1 ability completely disabling any targetted spells/attacks AND towers is healthy?
Terozu16 votesFlat out? Yes. The problem with targeted abilities is just that, they are targetted, unavoidable, no counterplay but "don't be in range".
The vast majority of mages and fighters have some aoe way of dealing with her shroud, while ADCs, her targets, do not.
In order to ever attack she gives you time to hit her back.
The vast majority of adcs even reach 1.6 attack speed which means they can auto twice during one reveal if theyve recently cancelled an auto properly.
The thing is, targeted abilities are point and click and lack counterplay. Giving a way to avoid it is perfectly healthy.
Furthermore, you cant target anyone revealed by Sweeper wards, nor can you control ward many types of stealth. INCLUDING PREREWORK AKALI.
floo19 votesIt's about as healthy as Yasuos W. Disabling half of attacking methods just feels ass to play against
Terozu4 votesExcept Yasuo blocks all projectiles against everyone in a large area that can block both targetted abilities and skill shots. In addition when he pops it it diesnt have to be in the direction of the skill.
Akali's shroud effects only her and blocks attacks no better ir worse than her old shroud with the only exception being that normal turrets dont make her targetable.
floo14 votesAkalis shroud lasts twice as long as windwall and gives her free tower dives. An ability without counterplay isn't healthy. And even if you have aoe, she can just dodge it by walking away and baited out damage + she can reenter.
Terozu6 votesIf she walks out you can damage her.
And no it doesnt give her free dives. If she hits you under turret the turret will fire on her as will you be able to.
Using aoe is counterplay, if shes simply using it as a defensive option which your entire complaint is about it doesnt need counter play.
floo8 votesIt's not only about defensive use. If she uses it to towerdive/midfight you can't do shit against her aside from trying to hit skillshots/aoe which she can most likely dodge in her huge ass shroud. And the .5s until she enters stealth again isn't much, as you have to be careful yourself to not die to her, giving you not much reaction time.
JustaMemerbro3 votesThat is something I never understood about that. Everyone that argue's for the Akali shroud never bring up the point she doesn't just sit invisible waiting for it to end. I only character I have had any remote success against an akali that is not brain dead is Nunu's ult which is just big enough for the shroud.
VonToothskie1 votesSweeper does work and being able to completely disable a champ ability is not healthy.
Like Yasuo's windwall disables 10% of the abilities in the game outright?
floo2 votesAnd the entire ranged champions pool.
Z3Sleeper12 votesbeing able to completely disable a champ ability is not healthy.
, 
, 
, 
, 
, Wind Wall, Counter Strike, Riposte, Tempered Fate, Destiny, Sonic Wave, Tempest, Unbreakable, Steadfast Presence, Remove Scurvy, Intervention, Cosmic Radiance, Black Shield, all forms of Invisibility (not Camouflage), Frozen Tomb, Alpha Strike, Highlander, Playful/Trickster, Shroud of Darkness, Spell Shield, Aegis Protection, Blinding Dart, Thrill of the Hunt, Hallucinate, Spirit's Refuge, Fate's Call, Devour, Sanguine Pool, Subjugate, Featherstorm, Crescent Guard, Death Mark
and last but not least of this list off the top of my head, Twilight Shroud. All these abilities and items are capable of entirely disabling or negating several champion abilities. It's called countering.
Even Invisibility is countered by Sonic Wave, Tempest, Destiny and Thrill of the Hunt. The saving grace is that most of the listed abilities have short durations. But Akali? Special exception. "True" Stealth that lasts 10 seconds and is only countered by either having a Sweeping Lens and tossing skillshots at her, landing "blind" skillshots or landing a damage over time effect prior to that will cause shimmer so you can land skillshots. All of which involve landing skillshots on an invisible champion with 40% bonus movement speed and 3 dashes.
Why is Akali the only one who gets special stealth treatment on top of her massively longer stealth duration?
WoΘxer4 votesAkali is immune to True Sight, I am maining Lee, and I can't do a shti to an Akali, if I press second Q, my second Q just disappears in mid air.
cocacolalips2 votesthe counterplay is to kill her before she kills you, ezpz.
use attack move click when in her shroud, or walk away from her shroud and attack her if she follows you.
Terozu14 votesThe duration isnt refreshed. Its raised by a half second. For a total of 7-9 seconds duration once every 20 seconds or so. I.e. she spend about the third of the game with a shroud up of she always uses it immediately and stays within for the full duration.
In order for her to be stealthed for 25 minutes
She would need to cast it max rank 166 times which would require bare minimum a 90 minute game.
But thats only if she always uses the ability immediately and bops in and out of to maximize the duration. On average she probably spends around 2-3 minutes stealthed across a typical game.
This is even more of an exaggeration on your part qhen you consider she maxes w second meaning its not going to have that duration or that short a cooldown until almost halfway through a fucking game if not later.
Beyond turrets not making her targetable her shroud acts the exact same as it did prior to her rework. And people werent complaining anout it then. Stop complaining about it now.
Bob the Toastr10 votesDo you know what CDR is?
Quick bit of math:
Cooldown is 17/15.5/14/12.5/11 after the base duration ends.
Base duration is 5/5.5/6/6.5/7.
Bonus duration can be up to 3 seconds.
With 40% CDR and rank 5 shroud, cooldown is 6.6 seconds after base duration. Therefore if she refreshes it fully she can spend 10 seconds out of every 13.6 seconds in shroud (cooldown is 7 + 6.6, duration is 7 + 3).
That's 73.5% of the time. Granted, she's not going to have her shroud at rank 5 all game or have 40% CDR all game, but that's still about 3/4 of the time she can spend in her shroud.
hrooza dota 2 votesim pretty sure the duration is set to 8 sec max at all levels
Paroe10 votesYa know, instead of whining like a little brat why dont you try playing around it? Skillshots work, AoEs still work, you literally get an echo to know about where she is in the shroud...
Why are you bitching about it anyway, when the previous iteration of it got next to no complaints even when akali was meta? Just because "WAAAAAAAAAAH CT WAAAAAAAAAAAH"?
Do we need to call the WAAAAAAAAHmbulence for you?
You need some cheese with your whine?
How about some fava beans and a nice chianti?
TheSingularity31 votesBecause with the old one she could be revealed, was significantly smaller, lasted significantly less time and didn't make her invisible to turrets.
You can't play around it reliably because the invisible field is so dam big and lasts so dam long that you can't figure out where she is unless she reveals herself. You're long dead by the time you find her
Paroe3 votesBecause with the old one she could be revealed, was significantly smaller, lasted significantly less time and didn't make her invisible to turrets.
You can't play around it reliably because the invisible field is so dam big and lasts so dam long that you can't figure out where she is unless she reveals herself. You're long dead by the time you find her
Err.... Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
The old one she couldnt be revealed either. The old one was actually the same size, AND didnt shrink over time. The old one also had a similar duration. Further... She doesnt use it much under tower to begin with. Even when she does, all it takes is dodging her E and walking away. In fact, thats the real counterplay to Akali; Dodge her E. Without it, she needs her ult to engage. And you can walk away from that pretty easy.
You CAN play around her smokescreen reliably - she uses it as a panic button to help reset her CDs. You either pressure her with allies by waiting for the echo and aiming near that, or pressure her in general with allies. You should NOT, IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, BE TRYING TO 1V1 OR FACE CHECK AN ASSASSIN.
Really, use your noggin. Stop whining. Learn. You arent some poor sod hopped up on Oxycontin eating fried brain. Although a lot of people who bitch about akali might be having that Chianti.
TheSingularity29 votesThe old one she couldnt be revealed either.
Towers shot her and revealed her (true sight reveals everything, regardless of stealth type, well until new akali), and wards/sweeper gave me that sweet silhouette. Now I get neither
The old one was actually the same size, AND didnt shrink over time.
Spell desc "creating a circular shroud that expands over the next 5 seconds into a ring". The base size is identical to the old one. so it ends up about twice as big.
The old one also had a similar duration.
Had identical max duration at rank 1. Current is 2 seconds longer at rank 5
Dodge her E
This issue is shared with Zoe. In that you either dodge one spell in particular or you die, a spell she can easily spam since she uses energy. She can always shroud and use the MS boost to get on top of you, then/or R--E--E--R. Gunblade only makes this easier Her Q is also effective at forcing you to leave the safety of your wave, given it almost matches the auto attack range of every mage in the game, and in one case surpasses it. (So akali can be safely in her melee wave and hit you through your ranged wave).
Really, use your noggin. Stop whining. Learn.
I generally try to. Recently been making leaps and bounds against 
. No longer feed zed, talon is gank dependent (his jungler) and fizz is stilla tad sketchy.
However even fizz isn't this cheap.
ValiantKiller4 votesTowers shot her and revealed her (true sight reveals everything, regardless of stealth type, well until new akali), and wards/sweeper gave me that sweet silhouette. Now I get neither
Spell desc "creating a circular shroud that expands over the next 5 seconds into a ring". The base size is identical to the old one. so it ends up about twice as big.
Had identical max duration at rank 1. Current is 2 seconds longer at rank 5
This issue is shared with Zoe. In that you either dodge one spell in particular or you die, a spell she can easily spam since she uses energy. She can always shroud and use the MS boost to get on top of you, then/or R--E--E--R. Gunblade only makes this easier Her Q is also effective at forcing you to leave the safety of your wave, given it almost matches the auto attack range of every mage in the game, and in one case surpasses it. (So akali can be safely in her melee wave and hit you through your ranged wave).
I generally try to. Recently been making leaps and bounds against
Old Akali W acted as Wukong W, but again seem like that dude want to keep defending her for no reason so ignore him really.
XeroKimo2 votesJust saying, since the removal of pinks, red wards never ever showed the silhouette of Akali, sweepers still does though
ModAcademy Kayn3 votesI mean, if you're gonna look at her old W, you need to look at the rest of her kit too. Her Old Kit had way more upfront damage than current Akali, much more that couldn't be avoided, which is why she gets more time. Don't act like new Akali has the same Time to Kill as Old Akali.
Total Eclipse9 votesI just wish that my fast reaction as Vlad would let me cast my Q on her when she comes out. My cast time always gets cancelled and its lame. If simply point an click abilities could continue even as vision is lost, or if she was revealed for just two frames extra to reward fast reflexes, I would be very happy.
Cute Cuban8 votesI have to permaban Akali when I jungle because every single time I gank, she uses that dumb ass smoke screen and I have to walk away. Fuck that champion.
Also, whoever thought it would be smart to hide her from towers needs to never design an ability ever again. Towers are supposed to be the one protection you have from being stomped in lane or getting dived by a roaming mid laner.
Somebody Love Me4 votesThat's why you gank after she blows it in lane.
Like ganking Fizz after he Es
Gank Zed after W
Gank LB after her W
Shall I go on?
A Superb Villain3 votesStrategy? In my reaction time simulator?!
And who told you this good balance decision? Praying that your jungler will gank, or that he is around when they blow their abilities.
Somebody Love Me1 votesThe point is not to just up and run into lane. You gotta sit and wait until that crucial CD is baited out
Well what if he doesnt use it then? And dont tell me to bait it. He chooses when to use it. I can try to force him to use it but depending on my champ that might not be possible.
Somebody Love Me1 votesAkali needs shroud to reliably trade in lane vs ranged. She'll also need shroud to avoid a gank that otherwise would have worked. If you time it right, she can't do both.
Akali gets shoved in like every lane matchup mid lane, so oftentimes she's playing really safe till 6, so ganking her isn't really possible unless it's a dive, and in that case your mid laner should be abusing her to the point that she blows shroud just to live in lane (given how low her ranges are and how vulnerable to poke she is).
If she somehow managed to shove your laner in (how the fuck), a gank is free because even if she blows shroud, she'll still have to flash out or something because shroud doesn't last very long if she just hides in it. She has to constantly reveal her position to get the most out of it.
One thing you gotta watch out for is how well she 2v2s and 2v1s. She's really good with her jungler.
Nyarlathοtep1 votesAkali needs shroud to reliably trade in lane vs ranged
But she doesnt have to trade. All she has to do is play safe until level 6. Hell she might even get a kill if her enemy pushes and her jungler ganks.
Akali gets shoved in like every lane matchup mid lane,
I havent played a lot of games against akali. However this is a bit wrong. At least from a high mana consumption mage view. Mages need to use early on their whole rotation to wave clear. However this hits their mana pool hard. Then you take into consideration that they have to pay attention to the enemy jungler and you realise that they cant just mindlessly shove. Besides akali doesnt have a hard time farming under turret.
, a gank is free because even if she blows shroud, she'll still have to flash out or something because shroud doesn't last very long if she just hides in it.
Depends on the champs in question. And how did they approach the lane.
Somebody Love Me1 votesFor the first point, if she doesn't trade or try to exist in lane, she opens herself up to being pushed in and her laner roaming. And you know what happens in solo q when roams happen.
For the second point, mages barely go oom anymore thanks to Corrupting+dark seal+biscuits+time warp
For the third, yes it depends on the champ, so in that case, any meta Jungler not named Evelynn
Dracocrash1 votesthe difference is after fizz/zed/leblanc use their skills AGGRESIVELY, you can immediately go in and punish them. If akali uses her shroud incorrectly, you cannot immediatly go in.
First, you have to wait out the shroud duration, and pray that ur team mate doesn't die while you wait for the shroud to run out. And if you dont wait for it to run out shes just going to fuck off, and you dont get anything,
RavenMagus2 votesAlso, whoever thought it would be smart to hide her from towers needs to never design an ability ever again. Towers are supposed to be the one protection you have from being stomped in lane or getting dived by a roaming mid laner.
I honestly don't know why everyone is so fixated on Akali avoiding tower shots like that.
Towers are so weak these days that you can pretty much just buy a chain vest and ignore it forever anyways. Akali really isn't anything special.
Cute Cuban1 votesMy point isn't even the tower damage, my point is the vision. Why is she the only champ allowed to dive you while invisible? Makes 0 sense lmao.
If someone decides to dive, the outplay/CC risk is always there but Akali ignores it all by being invisible.
Somebody Love Me1 votesTowers reveal her in shroud. They just don't hit her
Akali Prime4 votesi mean eve is invisible for the entire game sooooo
Seleena4 votesImagine losing against a silver akali in a normal game n complain. lul
Ada Wong2 votesAkali not OP...
[sg-lux-2] But since everyones complaining i'm just gonna go spam 10+ matches with her.[sg-ahri-3]
In the very least lets just make her R 3 spam like before?
Ada Wong2 votes**Hey riot bring back the original taunt...
"So Many newbs, can matchmaking ever find true balance?"**
Śhunpo2 votesJust make her Shroud grant invisibility over "Obscure" again. There, problem solved, for the most part. It solves the extremes anyway.
MegaHuff2 votesI mean, if you look at Yasuo as an example, we're not gonna get any concession here. He's a CT champ that has been one of the most frustrating things to deal with since season 3, and his core kit has remained almost completely intact from release, the only changes being small ones, like his E stacks only being able to go up to 2x now instead of 4x, and only getting armor pen on crits, etc. He still has his free shields, no resource, practically best defensive move in the game, bunches of CC, stupid easy wombo combo ult, and if all that wasn't enough, double crit with an almost completely negligible downside in exchange. Still exists since season 3, so I don't see them changing any actual meaningful shit on Akali anytime in the foreseeable future.
Slim Gragas2 votesCertainlyT
Nimblepaw2 votesShe is in my experience a hit or miss midlaner. I main Talon, Aurelion Sol, Anivia, and warwick. Against my champions akali's shroud is less then useless.
On talon I can just W her, On aurelion sol use my stars, my Q with a bit of a running start fills her shroud. On Anivia I drop my ult in her shroud and use my visibility to E and Q her. On Warwick Bami's cinder makes her visible but untargetable, activate fear, chase, ult her, Q her, dead.
She is basically immune to all targetable powers, like AA making her a HARD counter to a lot of champs, but fairly helpless to others.
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