Are we ready to admit Elise was overnerfed yet?

Yeah, now it's like why play Elise when I can play X. This is sad coming from a main.

Except Jayce can still be good if you know how to play him(though it's better to play Nidalee). Elise is literally thrash.

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She's like Poppy, in that she really can't be allowed to be strong competitively. If Elise is strong, then... she crowds out every other jungle pick due to the fact that she's insanely flexible and has tons of utility while having few meaningful weaknesses. In my opinion Elise needs a minor rework that actually preserves her identity (read: don't let Stashu rework Elise) and clearly defines strengths and weaknesses for Elise.

Lee Sin is allowed to be competitively strong and he's more versatile than Elise ever was.

And the idea that Elise has no weaknesses is vastly exaggerated. She has essentially no escape, has to get into very close range to do most of her damage, is a terrible team fighter and scales awfully into the late game. And to be quite honest she's not even a fantastic 1v1 champ.

It is obvious that she has weaknesses, alongside her strengths. Riot simply has to buff her without removing all of her weaknesses and that's very doable. You can buff her damage or even her tankiness a bit, or make her stun more reliable, but she'll still be an early game specialist who can't be relied on in long lasting games nor the grouping phase. It is completely fair.

Ehhh.. there will probably always be FOTMs pretty much no matter what you do

People can be sheeps (and some champions will almost always be a bit stronger or just stronger then other commonly picked champions)

That's odd, I've never had trouble with her jungle clear. What I really have issues with is dealing any damage mid to late game, no matter how fed I may get.

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Considering her competitive presence?

I highly doubt that.

She gets played rarely in competitive, and when she does, its usually because said Jungler has no other strong pick to fall back on because of pick/ban phase.

But when she is picked, the first reaction of literally any commentator when she's picked is something along the lines of oh no...don't lock her in, or discussion about how weak Elise currently is and how even if she does well, her presence on the battle field is incredibly underwhelming.

In other words, even commentators for LCS and pro circuit games know she's in a horrible place.

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Honestly, if you just add damage to her cocoon (human form E) it would balance her out and still involve skill to make it happen.

What do you think?

I think a better solution right now for Elise is to establish an official identity for her, as of right now, she's kind of in the same place as Evelynn where she doesn't have a clear strong point, I.E. is she an assassin? A bruiser? Or a tank? By not having a strong point, she does not have a meaningful weakness which is the problem, she does everything, but the nature of what she does is lackluster, which is a shame since she has such an awesome kit.

From there out, I think it becomes easier to address Elise's problem. If her cocoon gets a damage buff, the question becomes what are we trying to make Elise? I think its a good idea since her cocoon is a signature part of her kit.

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Considering her competitive presence?

I highly doubt that.

do you watch competitive lately?

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She got played i the Expansion tournament though. She wasn't super great but she wasn't horrible either. I think people are overreacting a bit.

Literally the game's worst win rate.

I think that's the point with her kit though... She CAN work IF played in a pre-made 5v5 with comms... Otherwise, she's just not a good champ to play.

I guess if we want two sets of champs - 1 group that can be played within solo q, and 1 group that only works within a pre-arranged team comp, then everything is peachy!

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Is "overnerfed" wood division V lingo for "I suck at playing Elise"?

The worst win rate in the game. She's played by a tiny amount of the player base (basically her mains only) and still manages to do worse than Urgot. It's not a player problem, it's a champion problem.

I've been playing Shyv jungle with some success. The buff to her W damage against monsters helped out a lot.

Only some monster damage? She falls off worse than Lee Sin. Elise already has strong clears.